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Old 07-16-2012, 05:25 AM   #106
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

Updated with the results from July 15th and all differences with the official rankings corrected.

The official rankings are out, and now you can find the detailed files with this week's official rankings inside the OP's link.

A few words:
- Falla and Giraldo still have to play the final at Bogota. Their points will be modified inside this Monday's rankings and re-posted in the official rankings.

Error corrections:
- Marin Cilic was not allowed to have less than 2 ATP 500 events yet, since he has not dropped enough ATP 500 events from last year. So, yesterday's 60 effective was not correct, as he was and is not allowed to pull his 90 ATP 500 points with a better 150 ATP 250 just yet.
- Josh Goodall - Calculation problem that was giving him an extra point.
- Some players that retired from last week's futures events were not taken out properly and they counted an extra tournament causing small inconsistencies.

Apart from these, the live rankings were 100% accurate with everything else.
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:30 AM   #107
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMU30 View Post
Okay, so apparently the Poznan Challenger was downgraded from last year in terns of prize money and ranking points offered.

Jerzy has 65 points to defend next week from that tournament. So how does that work if they change the amount of ranking points offered for the tournament? He made the Final last year and got 65 ranking points. This year, a finalist would only get 48 ranking points.

So does it not matter? Is he still defending 65 ranking points this week? Does he have to win the title in Poznan to defend all of his points?
Why would it matter that the tournament is downgraded this year ? His current ranking points are calculated with a 65. Fine, he can defend 48, what happens with the other 17 points ? Are they on the house ?

Sure, it's unfair, but it's just as unfair as the tournament being upgraded this year, and him making MORE points by reaching the same round.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:41 AM   #108
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

Given that my baby was born today, I will not be posting for an undetermined while (most likely 3 weeks).

I was happy I could help everyone with the rankings, and I'm sure I'll be returning for more.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:32 AM   #109
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
Given that my baby was born today, I will not be posting for an undetermined while (most likely 3 weeks).

I was happy I could help everyone with the rankings, and I'm sure I'll be returning for more.
Congratulations and best wishes for your wife and baby : great news

We're all be looking forward for you back
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:03 AM   #110
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

I will start a talking on another topic as the "ATP rankings thread" in MTF has often been used to talk about topics about unclear ATP rules as far as the rankings are concerned.

Here, we have one, I think.

The ATP rulebook (at least the version I had in the beginning of the year, maybe there has been another one released since, which corrects that but I have no access to the ATP website at my work, if anyone can check ) says section 9.01 E :

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATP rulebook
The South African Airways ATP Rankings (singles) or ATP Doubles Rankings period is the immediate past 52 weeks, except for:
* Barclays ATP World Tour Finals, singles and doubles, which is dropped on the Monday following the last ATP World Tour event of the following year.
* Futures Series tournaments that are only entered into the system on the second Monday following the tournament’s week.
Once entered, all tournaments, except for the Barclays ATP World Tour Finals, remain in the system for 52 consecutive weeks.
Usually, Paris-Bercy MS1000 being the last ATP World Tour event of the calendar year, that meant that on monday following Bercy, the points from Bercy and from the WTF last year dropped on the same day.

But this year, the calendar is advanced to answer the request of some players for a longer stop between one year and the next one :
- Basel and Bercy are one week earlier than last year (Basel finishes on the 28th of october, Bercy on the 4th of november)
- the WTF is 2 weeks earlier than last year (finishes on the 11th of november).

If I follow strictly the rules :
- Basel points from last year (between the 31st of october and the 6th of november) should drop on the 5th of november ... right after Bercy.
- the points from the WTF last year should drop after the "last ATP world tour event of the year", which means right after Bercy
- the points from Bercy last year should drop 52 weeks later, which means ... after the WTF !?

The points from Bercy last year would drop later than the points from the WTF last year .

This interpretation is confirmed by the "ATP rankings breakdown" as the "drop date" for Bercy last year is the 12th of november, which means after the WTF ?!

But of course this is strange, and an evidence of that is that it would mean that the points from Bercy last year would count for the qualifying for the WTF this year (the qualifying being based on the ATP rankings on the first monday of the WTF).

And then the "road-to-London" "rankings" or the "year-to-date" rankings should include Bercy last year !!

Which was not the case last time I checked.

Personally I thought the points from Bercy last year would rather drop in the same time as the points from the WTF, which means after Bercy this year, despite Bercy being one week earlier than last year, whcih would mean that the points from Bercy last year would stay in the rankings for only ... 51 weeks.

There's also another topic : the challengers. Previous years, the last challengers happened the same week as the WTF ... and if I remember well, their points dropped 52 weeks later, which means later than Bercy in that case.

Then why does the ATP not include them in the "road-to-London year-to-date rankings" ?

I think this thread might be used to talk and give informations on that topic, as was always the case for the rankings thread. Thanks
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Last edited by duong : 07-16-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:07 AM   #111
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
Given that my baby was born today, I will not be posting for an undetermined while (most likely 3 weeks).

I was happy I could help everyone with the rankings, and I'm sure I'll be returning for more.
Congrats!
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:09 AM   #112
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

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Originally Posted by tealeaves View Post
Tipsy you vulture Delpo is ninth seed into the Olympics
What? Even if Tipsy didn't play anothing after SW19, neither did Delpo, so the seedings would be the same
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:18 AM   #113
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
I will start a talking on another topic as the "ATP rankings thread" in MTF has often been used to talk about topics about unclear ATP rules as far as the rankings are concerned.

Here, we have one, I think.

The ATP rulebook (at least the version I had in the beginning of the year, maybe there has been another one released since, which corrects that but I have no access to the ATP website at my work, if anyone can check ) says section 9.01 E :



Usually, Paris-Bercy MS1000 being the last ATP World Tour event of the calendar year, that meant that on monday following Bercy, the points from Bercy and from the WTF last year dropped on the same day.

But this year, the calendar is advanced to answer the request of some players for a longer stop between one year and the next one :
- Basel and Bercy are one week earlier than last year (Basel finishes on the 28th of october, Bercy on the 4th of november)
- the WTF is 2 weeks earlier than last year (finishes on the 11th of november).

If I follow strictly the rules :
- Basel points from last year (between the 31st of october and the 6th of november) should drop on the 5th of november ... right after Bercy.
- the points from the WTF last year should drop after the "last ATP world tour event of the year", which means right after Bercy
- the points from Bercy last year should drop 52 weeks later, which means ... after the WTF !?

The points from Bercy last year would drop later than the points from the WTF last year .

This interpretation is confirmed by the "ATP rankings breakdown" as the "drop date" for Bercy last year is the 12th of november, which means after the WTF ?!

But of course this is strange, and an evidence of that is that it would mean that the points from Bercy last year would count for the qualifying for the WTF this year (the qualifying being based on the ATP rankings on the first monday of the WTF).

And then the "road-to-London" "rankings" or the "year-to-date" rankings should include Bercy last year !!

Which was not the case last time I checked.

Personally I thought the points from Bercy last year would rather drop in the same time as the points from the WTF, which means after Bercy this year, despite Bercy being one week earlier than last year, whcih would mean that the points from Bercy last year would stay in the rankings for only ... 51 weeks.

There's also another topic : the challengers. Previous years, the last challengers happened the same week as the WTF ... and if I remember well, their points dropped 52 weeks later, which means later than Bercy in that case.

Then why does the ATP not include them in the "road-to-London year-to-date rankings" ?

I think this thread might be used to talk and give informations on that topic, as was always the case for the rankings thread. Thanks
Points from last years Paris and last years WTF are going to drop (acording to the rankings breakdown) after this years WTF. That would mean that players would count last years Paris, this years Paris and last years WTF in the same time. That is just not fair. I hope they at least fallow the rulebook about last years WTF points droping after Paris.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:13 PM   #114
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

They may just replace them in the official ranking but for qualification purposes they'll use this year's points.
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Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:34 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
They may just replace them in the official ranking but for qualification purposes they'll use this year's points.
in the rulebook, the qualifying for the WTF is based on the official rankings, not on the "Race" anymore.

The "year-to-date" rankings have been added later, mostly because people wanted to know them, but they don't have any "official" existence in the rulebook then shouldn't be used for the qualifyings.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:37 PM   #116
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

Yeah but this year it's different. They've rearranged the calendar so some flexibility will be needed.
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Originally Posted by Orbis View Post
Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:03 PM   #117
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings

Another Rankings question asked by Gamas in the "Olympics" thread : maybe someone will know something here :

will the players invited by the ITF to the Olympics Games and lose in first round get 5 points like the other players who lose in first round or 0 point like the wild-cards in a mandatory tournament or in Monte-Carlo ?
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:25 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by duong View Post
Another Rankings question asked by Gamas in the "Olympics" thread : maybe someone will know something here :

will the players invited by the ITF to the Olympics Games and lose in first round get 5 points like the other players who lose in first round or 0 point like the wild-cards in a mandatory tournament or in Monte-Carlo ?
I check , they didn't get point.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:47 AM   #119
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They will replace their lowest optional result, which means :

Fed and Nadal will replace the 90 points from Doha,

and Djokovic will replace ... 0 point, that is get all of his points.

The link to the old rankings thread was written by Slasher85 in the first post :

Link to the Old rankings thread
Thanks duong

And other ask.. The Olympics count for the ATP 500 requirement for the commitment players?
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:55 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Rafter_forever View Post
Thanks duong

And other ask.. The Olympics count for the ATP 500 requirement for the commitment players?
Probably not : the Olympics are not an ATP500 tournament (neither is Monte-Carlo, yes, which apparently is part of the commitment) and the ATP500 requirement has been made to prompt top-30 players to play optional tournaments the ATP has contracted with. This is not the case of the Olympics, and obviously the Olympics have no problem to attract top-players.
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