[tribalfusion]

Originally Posted by Nole fan

However in Madrid and Rome, rafa was simply anhilated.

Nice to see how objective you are...a break per set is annihilation. If so then some of Djokovic's many losses to Nadal were far beyond annihilation.

[Nole fan]

Originally Posted by Ash86

Exactly. Novak wasn't at his best yesterday. Rafa beat him fair and square. The personal issues didn't stop him beating Dolgo and Berdych and he chose to play so we can't just blame it on that.

As for Madrid and Rome - since when is losing with a break in each set an "annihilation"?! Novak had his worst defeat to Rafa yesterday - Rafa winning over 65% of the points - being broken 5 times - that's annihilation. Not losing close sets - mainly because Rafa just couldn't seem to serve to stay in a set/match last year.

Nole has the edge in the match up just like Rafa has the edge over Roger - at least people will acknowledge it's still close and a contest now though - prior to this it was like Nadal's a walk in the park for Nole. Nothing is a given in sport and on clay and grass Rafa will always have a great chance to get the win.

It's different to beat Berdych and Dolgo than Nadal... and clearly you didn't see those matches, Nole was very affected emotionally and it showed through the match. Nole had a legitimate excuse, his grandad had just died. Rafa didn't have any when he lose, he simply played worse.

[rickcastle]

Originally Posted by Ash86

The personal issues didn't stop him beating Dolgo and Berdych and he chose to play so we can't just blame it on that.

Are we really going to pretend that beating Dolgopolov and Berdych on clay is the same as beating Nadal on clay? Don't embarrass Nadal.

[juan27]

I think that if novak wish keep his advantage over nadal , he need improve:

Recover his great backhand again , nole`s backhand looks more erratic and without the power and angles of last year and this is the key against nadal.

and needs recover his serve too , because if nadal against him use the 2010 serve motion , for nole will be much more harder return his service like the last year, in montecarlo nole couldn`t return good rafa`s serve , because that nole has to recover a good serve , last year nole was with confidence because he knew that he could broke rafa any time with that serve , but if rafa use the 2010 serve is not the same thing and nole need tu be very sure in his serve because this time if nadal break for nole will be much more difficult break rafa`s serve.

[Clay Death]

make up your mind eDJOKulons. was he affected or was he not affected?

how could he NOT be affected against dolgopolov and berdych where he even had to come from behind to win.

and he is affected against the man he owns and had beaten him in 7 straight finals. nadal didnt even have the balls to take him down at the australian open after he had finally gone ahead 4-2, 30-15 on his own serve.


isnt this much blind worship and emotional investment in an a pro athlete somewhat unhealthy?

and what are you going do? now will you start writing to some of the sportwriters too who also believe that this was a selfish thing to do. he stuck around because tennis was more important than his own family.

and then he uses the excuse to dismiss the nadal win.

i can assure you that most of the smart, informed people are looking at this as a blunder by no-djok. he should have been with his family. that appears to be the verdict. i am just making the observation here.

and finally some have suggested that he may have given nadal the edge back.

so anyway you slice it, this tournament was not important for a man who has a runaway lead in the rankings and who also wins 8-10 big tournaments a year anyway. what was more important was to be with his family in time of grief and tragedy.

and as much as i like the great serbian slayer and as well as he conducted himself after the match against nadal, he did not do the right thing by saying that he was affected by the other factors.

the fact that he stayed to win and he was winning until that final clearly implies that he made a decision to stay and win the title. in short, tennis was more important than his own immediate family. and against dolgo and berdych he showed that he was managing those emotions quite well.

i am not happy with no-djok.

[duong]

Originally Posted by tribalfusion

Yea he spent all those weeks before Montecarlo practicing with blood platelet treatment this year which as everyone knows is the best way to practice.

Absolutely hilarious.

Nadal is an incredible clay court player and Montecarlo is the most traditional playing big clay court event. That's why he slays there...it isn't because of some strategy.

MonteCarlo has always been the tournament most suited for the most natural claycourt players, for two reasons :

- the surface is less quick and higher bouncing than in Roma and Hamburg/Madrid (and now Roland-Garros is also quicker than Monte-Carlo, which is different from the past)

- these players need less time to adapt to clay (moreover some prepare earlier, that can be also true)

And Nadal surely is a very natural claycourt player.

[Ash86]

Originally Posted by rickcastle

Are we really going to pretend that beating Dolgopolov and Berdych on clay is the same as beating Nadal on clay? Don't embarrass Nadal.

Of course not. And I saw the Dolgo and Berdych matches - I saw Novak was motivated to win and he fought (well he looked totally out of it in the Berdych match but somehow Berdych just didn't capitalise...). I'm sure Novak had a tough week and a bad day at the office - but it still counts and doesn't change the fact that Nadal played really well. If Nadal had played like last year - weak serves, short returns - then maybe Djokovic would have fought a bit harder.

I'm not overstating the importance of the win but I think it's ridiculous that Djokovic fans are acting like Novak just didn't even try - if so that's kind of disgraceful in a Masters final and as a world no.1. I'm sure he tried but it just wasn't working for him. Just as this isn't the benchmark of his clay level, we can't keep using Rome and Madrid as the benchmark of his and Nadal's relative level either.

[duong]

Originally Posted by Clay Death

the fact that he stayed to win and he was winning until that final clearly implies that he made a decision to stay and win the title. in short, tennis was more important than his own immediate family. and against dolgo and berdych he showed that he was managing those emotions quite well.

no no no you can't judge like that, and it was a family choice (his brothers were also there on sunday).

I understand that Nadalfans don't like that there's such an "excuse" in the background of the win they would like to enjoy fully, but don't intervene in his personal choice.

And it was very visible during his matches against Dolgopolov and Berdych that he was uncomfortable on court, not emotionally well.

[duong]

Originally Posted by Ash86

I'm not overstating the importance of the win but I think it's ridiculous that Djokovic fans are acting like Novak just didn't even try - if so that's kind of disgraceful in a Masters final and as a world no.1. I'm sure he tried but it just wasn't working for him.

he tried but he was not fully emotionally there, which is what he said and which was clearly visible on court from his previous matches already.

Besides, Nadal played clearly well, esp. backhand and serve.

Originally Posted by Ash86

Just as this isn't the benchmark of his clay level, we can't keep using Rome and Madrid as the benchmark of his and Nadal's relative level either.

yes, but on sunday he played worse than in all of his matches against Nadal on clay.

[Clay Death]

we are all fans of the sport. accordingly, we can talk about it.

what is not right is you trying to stand in judgement of me willing to engage in a healthy, honest conversation.

fans, press, and many insiders do get involved because that is what they do.

talking about these things is perfectly healthy and normal.

and to be perfectly honest, i dont care about this win. he had 7 of these titles already. for me, playing better and being far more fit than he is would have made me more happy.

he did not play well as far as i am concerned. one thing he did was to keep the error count low to just 10. that tells me that he was focused in winning this thing but he was from his best.

what pissed me off more that anything was his court positioning and his fear of hitting backahands. i have never seen him play this poorly on clay before.

that match against simon was just horrible. i could hardly bear to watch.

[rickcastle]

Originally Posted by duong

yes, but on sunday he played worse than in all of his matches against Nadal on clay.

Exactly. This has been the most lopsided match between the two and I've seen Nadal play much better against Djokovic in the past but wasn't able to get this kind of scoreline. Obviously it was Djokovic's level that made the difference. I don't know if it was for lack of trying or not, but Djokovic just wasn't there.

[Ash86]

Originally Posted by duong

he tried but he was not fully emotionally there, which is what he said and which was clearly visible on court from his previous matches already.

Besides, Nadal played clearly well, esp. backhand and serve.



yes, but on sunday he played worse than in all of his matches against Nadal on clay.

Yes - it was. And Rome and Madrid were his BEST matches against Nadal on clay too. Two total extremes. What's likely is that in coming finals we'll have more of a happy medium with Nadal a bit more confident - Novak can still beat him sure but on clay I expect Nadal to put up more of a fight. At RG especially you have to favour Nadal - it's a best of 5 and Nadal's clay court game is more natural than Novak's.

As a Nadal fan I'm not convinced at all that he'll manage to beat Novak in the next few encounters - but I'm more hopeful than I was yesterday - and that's important... I hope Nadal can win Barcelona, Rome and RG but it'll be a hell of a fight. If it's Novak and Rafa slugging it out again then it might help Murray and Federer be fresher for Wimbledon and the Olympics.... Exciting few months ahead.

[Clay Death]

i think more than anything, no-djok was tired. you have to play everyday at most of these masters events and he had to come from behind in his last matches before the final.

these top players have their practice sessions and then they have to make their appearances for the sponsors and the press and the like. and often their families are there with them. their schedule can be quite demanding.

and if you have 1-2 nights of poor sleep, you are going to be affected on the court sooner or later.

[Nole Rules]

Originally Posted by Nole fan

It's different to beat Berdych and Dolgo than Nadal... and clearly you didn't see those matches, Nole was very affected emotionally and it showed through the match. Nole had a legitimate excuse, his grandad had just died. Rafa didn't have any when he lose, he simply played worse.

It's hilarious to see that Nadulltards don't accept any kind excuses from any player. That's rich coming from them.

Only Nadal have legitimate excuses.

[Mefes]

Clay - is Novak's 2nd best surface (there was his 1st slam QF and 1st slam SF), He won even on grass past year. I dont think that Novak will lose Nadal at RG for the 4-th time. Novak become better physically.