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Old 05-16-2012, 03:38 PM   #46
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
Put a lid on the cockiness already, you're still making zero sense. I didn't elaborate on my opinions in the last post exactly because of that; I've tried to talk sense to nonsensical people here before without any luck. "You could think Nadal has the best vollies on tour, why not?" Really? Then why are you even talking here and disputing OPs post about Llodra if there literally is no right and wrong? "Player X is the best at _______" is not nearly as subjective as you think. (Or pretends to think because saying it is sounds cool.)

Thing is, when you bring in Tsonga and Fish who can't hit a punch volley to save their life into this discussion you can't really convince anyone anymore.

You want reasons why Llodra is the best? Because he has the best mix of touch, depth & variation at the net. His movement there is great too. Happy? (And for further information on the subject, read the other posts in this thread.)
Aha! So there is actually a mind working behind the random key punching.

Because this is a freaking bandwaggon thread and you're riding shotgun. OP was watching Llodra playing DelPo yesterday and suddenly decided he has the best vollies on tour because he's one of the few players that netrushes.

Netrushing doesn't not a great vollier make. Yes you spend a ton of time at net but so what, there are are plenty of all court players that I've mentioned that volley just as a well if not better...volleying is by definition simply taking the ball out of the air and not letting it bounce...they do this just as well if not better then Llodra. It just happens to be that Micheal charges to net all the time so you get to see him take all of these crazy off balance pickups/vollies because that's his style of play. I'll give Llodra this, he certainly makes volleying the most entertaining on tour because he takes all kinds of crazy ones that no sensible all court player would attempt(they would stay back).


I don't think Llodra is the best vollier on tour I think he's one* of the best S&V players.

Really Tsonga can't volley? Neither can Fish? Wow. Are you drunk 90% of the time during their matches?

How about Federer and Haas? I suppose they can't hit punch volleys either.

Nalbandian has amazing hands at net...no credit to him either?

What about Mischa Zverev? Does he not have equal volley skill?

I disagree that Llodra is the best vollier on tour, there is no right or wrong...only opinions on these such things. I've already discussed why that is. Because everyone's idea of beauty, effectiveness and even proper technique differs...also because form is fluid. Surely there are days when even Llodra is not as good as his average self and thus another who would not normally be as good of a vollier would be better than him on that day. Sometimes Federer can't keep the ball in the court off his forehand and other days he arguably has the best forehand on tour. Nothing is always the best in sports.

You can quantify who has the highest first serve win percentage, who wins the most return games, etc...the ATP doesn't keep a stat as far as I can tell for net points won, if they did you might actually have some type of factual ground to stand on. As of right now, you just have an opinion which I disagree with...by nature I cannot be wrong because an opinion is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge (that's from the dictionary).

I hope you can acknowledge that unlike you I have ground my arguments in logic....who's making zero sense?
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:20 PM   #47
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
Aha! So there is actually a mind working behind the random key punching.

Because this is a freaking bandwaggon thread and you're riding shotgun. OP was watching Llodra playing DelPo yesterday and suddenly decided he has the best vollies on tour because he's one of the few players that netrushes.

Netrushing doesn't not a great vollier make. Yes you spend a ton of time at net but so what, there are are plenty of all court players that I've mentioned that volley just as a well if not better...volleying is by definition simply taking the ball out of the air and not letting it bounce...they do this just as well if not better then Llodra. It just happens to be that Micheal charges to net all the time so you get to see him take all of these crazy off balance pickups/vollies because that's his style of play. I'll give Llodra this, he certainly makes volleying the most entertaining on tour because he takes all kinds of crazy ones that no sensible all court player would attempt(they would stay back).


I don't think Llodra is the best vollier on tour I think he's one* of the best S&V players.

Really Tsonga can't volley? Neither can Fish? Wow. Are you drunk 90% of the time during their matches?

How about Federer and Haas? I suppose they can't hit punch volleys either.

Nalbandian has amazing hands at net...no credit to him either?

What about Mischa Zverev? Does he not have equal volley skill?

I disagree that Llodra is the best vollier on tour, there is no right or wrong...only opinions on these such things. I've already discussed why that is. Because everyone's idea of beauty, effectiveness and even proper technique differs...also because form is fluid. Surely there are days when even Llodra is not as good as his average self and thus another who would not normally be as good of a vollier would be better than him on that day. Sometimes Federer can't keep the ball in the court off his forehand and other days he arguably has the best forehand on tour. Nothing is always the best in sports.

You can quantify who has the highest first serve win percentage, who wins the most return games, etc...the ATP doesn't keep a stat as far as I can tell for net points won, if they did you might actually have some type of factual ground to stand on. As of right now, you just have an opinion which I disagree with...by nature I cannot be wrong because an opinion is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge (that's from the dictionary).

I hope you can acknowledge that unlike you I have ground my arguments in logic....who's making zero sense?
Honestly, I don't know where you get your energy from. Perhaps you're trying the classic Sapeod strategy of "if I get the last word I win the argument". Opinions cannot be wrong, fine, but they sure can be stupid (in the eyes of others). I don't have the time nor the energy to respond to all of this, however I will say that this is hardly a bandwagon thread. I'm willing to bet many here (including me) didn't even watch the Llodra - Delpo match but it is a well known fact that Llodra has perhaps the best volleys on tour (many players agree with this as well). And nowhere did I say that the players you mentioned like Fed, Sexy or Haas were poor volleyers. I have only been crass and compared them to Llodra (which is actually the topic) and I can't see them beating him in that particular part of the game. Also, I get the feeling that you don't really like the frenchman.
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:01 PM   #48
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
Honestly, I don't know where you get your energy from. Perhaps you're trying the classic Sapeod strategy of "if I get the last word I win the argument". Opinions cannot be wrong, fine, but they sure can be stupid (in the eyes of others). I don't have the time nor the energy to respond to all of this, however I will say that this is hardly a bandwagon thread. I'm willing to bet many here (including me) didn't even watch the Llodra - Delpo match but it is a well known fact that Llodra has perhaps the best volleys on tour (many players agree with this as well). And nowhere did I say that the players you mentioned like Fed, Sexy or Haas were poor volleyers. I have only been crass and compared them to Llodra (which is actually the topic) and I can't see them beating him in that particular part of the game. Also, I get the feeling that you don't really like the frenchman.
Huh?!?

1) You admit to not reading or at the very least not wanting to respond to everything I've written. I mentioned this a couple posts back that you are exactly like 90% of posters on the board that do the same. You refuse to read and think and respond. You just repeat your same tired statements. I get it you think Micheal Llodra is the best vollier on tour and you think that most people and even professional players agree with you. What I don't get is why you fail to see having the best vollies doesn't mean you have to spend 100% of your time at net. The volley is just another tool players use to win points.

For Llodra it's the best part of his game but that doesn't mean it has to be better than other players who have 5-7 other ways to win any given point. Federer's backhand is way better than Jarkko Nieminen's and that might be Jarko's best shot.

Just because Jarkko wins alot of points by hitting off backhands for example, I'm not going to say it's better than Feds. Just because a shot might be your best shot, it doesn't mean it's the best on tour. Just because you do something alot more than anyways else on tour, doesn't make you the best at it.

2) I have the classic strategy anyone does who plans to win an argument. You create points, base them in logic/fact and then give examples. This is how one makes a case. You don't seem to follow that same strategy, you are dismissive and your rebuttals are repetitive. I don't know who you think you are but I don't find your posts be insightful at all.

3) This isn't a bandwaggon thread? Really? OP said -
Quote:
Originally Posted by bornnl View Post
It is just unbeliveble how he is doing at net against delpotro.
Best net performance ever
Understanding the OP correctly, I believe he asserted that Llodra was the best vollier on tour while watching his match yesterday...in which, he gave the "Best net performance ever". I'll just leave the definition of a bandwagon here for you...A particular activity or cause that has suddenly become fashionable or popular.

4) Wait so you say that I can have my opinion that Llorda doesn't have the best vollies on tour but then you go on to say that it's a fact that he does? I thought we just agreed these were opinions. Now you're really not making any sense.

5) You just fail to recognize that all court players like Federer, Haas, Nalbandian, etc. can have better vollies than an S&V player(Llodra included) because the other areas of their game are so strong they don't have to rely on volleying.

6) I don't dislike LLodra in the least bit. I enjoy watching him as much as everyone else. I do however, like your attempt to discredit me now that you are losing this argument. Perhaps you should say some other bad things about me too...if you think it will really help you.
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:40 PM   #49
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
Honestly, I don't know where you get your energy from. Perhaps you're trying the classic Sapeod strategy of "if I get the last word I win the argument". Opinions cannot be wrong, fine, but they sure can be stupid (in the eyes of others). I don't have the time nor the energy to respond to all of this, however I will say that this is hardly a bandwagon thread. I'm willing to bet many here (including me) didn't even watch the Llodra - Delpo match but it is a well known fact that Llodra has perhaps the best volleys on tour (many players agree with this as well). And nowhere did I say that the players you mentioned like Fed, Sexy or Haas were poor volleyers. I have only been crass and compared them to Llodra (which is actually the topic) and I can't see them beating him in that particular part of the game. Also, I get the feeling that you don't really like the frenchman.


Though tbf Fumus prefers the tactic of boring you to death using walls of text filled with inane ramblings about the philosophy of tennis or some other bullshit
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:04 PM   #50
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

I think Granollers is one of the best
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:38 PM   #51
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

No doubt. Among the best ever s&v players, if not the...
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:45 PM   #52
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

Llodra=tennis.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:48 PM   #53
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

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Though tbf Fumus prefers the tactic of boring you to death using walls of text filled with inane ramblings about the philosophy of tennis or some other bullshit
Yeh I give up.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:49 PM   #54
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

nvm
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:51 PM   #55
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

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No doubt. Among the best ever s&v players, if not the...
he's just unlucky...would've had numerous wimbledones in the 90's
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:07 PM   #56
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

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Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
Huh?!?

1) You admit to not reading or at the very least not wanting to respond to everything I've written. I mentioned this a couple posts back that you are exactly like 90% of posters on the board that do the same. You refuse to read and think and respond. You just repeat your same tired statements. I get it you think Micheal Llodra is the best vollier on tour and you think that most people and even professional players agree with you. What I don't get is why you fail to see having the best vollies doesn't mean you have to spend 100% of your time at net. The volley is just another tool players use to win points.

For Llodra it's the best part of his game but that doesn't mean it has to be better than other players who have 5-7 other ways to win any given point. Federer's backhand is way better than Jarkko Nieminen's and that might be Jarko's best shot.

Just because Jarkko wins alot of points by hitting off backhands for example, I'm not going to say it's better than Feds. Just because a shot might be your best shot, it doesn't mean it's the best on tour. Just because you do something alot more than anyways else on tour, doesn't make you the best at it.

2) I have the classic strategy anyone does who plans to win an argument. You create points, base them in logic/fact and then give examples. This is how one makes a case. You don't seem to follow that same strategy, you are dismissive and your rebuttals are repetitive. I don't know who you think you are but I don't find your posts be insightful at all.

3) This isn't a bandwaggon thread? Really? OP said -

Understanding the OP correctly, I believe he asserted that Llodra was the best vollier on tour while watching his match yesterday...in which, he gave the "Best net performance ever". I'll just leave the definition of a bandwagon here for you...A particular activity or cause that has suddenly become fashionable or popular.

4) Wait so you say that I can have my opinion that Llorda doesn't have the best vollies on tour but then you go on to say that it's a fact that he does? I thought we just agreed these were opinions. Now you're really not making any sense.

5) You just fail to recognize that all court players like Federer, Haas, Nalbandian, etc. can have better vollies than an S&V player(Llodra included) because the other areas of their game are so strong they don't have to rely on volleying.

6) I don't dislike LLodra in the least bit. I enjoy watching him as much as everyone else. I do however, like your attempt to discredit me now that you are losing this argument. Perhaps you should say some other bad things about me too...if you think it will really help you.
Your posts really are Seingeist-long - though I honestly find reading Seingeist's lengthy posts soothing as that guy has a way with words. As I said, I have no energy to respond to you as it is totally pointless. Find someone else to bother. (In the Sapeod scoring system I guess you... "won" the argument?) Just gotta say that #6 was genius, playing the victim after being so arrogant. Great stuff.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:39 PM   #57
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

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Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
he's just unlucky...would've had numerous wimbledones in the 90's
Most probably. And your previous pre-edited post was correct too.

Generally Edberg is considered perhaps the best in this game, yet he didn't suffer the same firepower against.

In my head Llodra is the very best anyways, but i would understand ppl disagreing.
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:24 PM   #58
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

Yes llodra is best and i am not saying that someone other wouldnt be better if he spents so much time on net but Llodra is just something special...,he is voleying from all positions on court.
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:45 PM   #59
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

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Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
he's just unlucky...would've had numerous wimbledones in the 90's
No. Llodra is one of the best volleyers today, but he wouldnt have stood a chance against the likes of Sampras, Edberg, Becker etc.
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:23 PM   #60
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Default Re: LLodra best volleyier on tour?

Yes he is. He's a very good doubles player so automatically his volley must be high quality stuff
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