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Old 05-11-2012, 07:55 PM   #31
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

Some musings regarding this topic...

As strange as it may sound, most Western countries have not legalised gay marriage yet. It's not like the US is the only one, or even one of few. These are the only ten countries in the world where gay marriage is legal:

Argentina
Belgium
Canada
Iceland
Netherlands
Norway
Portugal
South Africa
Spain
Sweden

Gay marriages are performed and recognised in parts of other countries, just as is the case in eight US states.

In other countries, like France, Germany, the UK and others, civil unions between homosexual people have been legal for some years, but in most cases they do not grant the same rights as marriage does.

And yet, and this is what puzzles me, gay marriage doesn't seem to be a debate issue in these countries, even though public opinion seems to be clearly in favour. I know for a fact it is not in Germany at least. What is the reason for this? I suppose the fact that Europeans are not as religious as Americans plays a role in it, as does the fact that the institution of marriage on the whole does not have in Europe the social relevance that it has on the other side of the pond. But still, I find it odd.

It would be nice to what other posters make of this, especially the European ones.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:26 PM   #32
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

The reason is because gay people are largely accepted in countries such as England and Germany, and NOT largely accepted in America. The reason why the fight for marriage is as big an issue in America as it is, is about acceptance of homosexuality as OK. People on both sides wont admit to this, but that is what it is. It really all comes down to homosexuality and, as social conservatives call it, "gay lifestyles", being legitimized.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:29 PM   #33
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

France, England, Slovenia, Czech Republic are all moving towards marriage equality, Colombia will soon legalize, Chile could be coming very soon as well. Things are moving rapidly in this direction. The one country that seems stuck in neutral is Australia. Because closeted lesbian Gillard would rather cozy to conservatives than be honest with herself and her constituents.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:20 AM   #34
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

http://www.gallup.com/poll/154628/Si...Moral%20Issues
Six in 10 Say Obama Same-Sex Marriage View Won't Sway Vote

More say it makes them less likely rather than more likely to vote for Obama

A majority of Americans, 60%, say President Barack Obama's newly announced support for same-sex marriage will make no difference to their vote. Twice as many say it will make them less likely to vote for Obama as say more likely, though roughly half of the "less likely" group are Republicans who probably would not support Obama anyway.



The results are based on a May 10 USA Today/Gallup poll conducted in response to Obama's May 9 announcement that he supports legalizing gay marriage. Obama is the first president to publicly support gay marriage while in office. The poll finds 51% of Americans approving of his position, essentially matching the 50% of Americans who support gay marriage in general, and similar to his 49% overall job approval rating.



The six in 10 Americans who say Obama's position on same-sex marriage will not affect their vote could be an underestimate because Republicans disproportionately make up the group who say they are less likely to vote for Obama, and Democrats disproportionately make up the group who say they are more likely to vote for him. It is probably safe to assume, given the strong relationship between party identification and vote choice, that most of those voters would have voted for or against Obama regardless of his view on gay marriage.

Partisans' responses to the question may therefore indicate more of a change in the intensity of their vote choice as opposed to an actual change in the candidate they support.

Thus, a key to assessing how the change in Obama's view of same-sex marriage will affect his vote share this fall would be to look at its effect on independents, and on Democrats and Republicans whose views are different from the majority of their party.

Specifically, 23% of independents and 10% of Democrats say it makes them less likely to vote for Obama, while a smaller 11% of independents and 2% of Republicans say it makes them more likely to vote for Obama. Those figures suggest Obama's gay marriage position is likely to cost him more independent and Democratic votes than he would gain in independent and Republican votes, clearly indicating that his new position is more of a net minus than a net plus for him. However, those figures also underscore that it is a relatively limited group of voters -- about one in three independents and fewer than one in 10 Republicans or Democrats -- whose votes may change as a result of Obama's new stance on gay marriage.

It is important to note that the poll's results give a sense of Americans' immediate reactions to Obama's position. It is possible that the impact of Obama's same-sex marriage position will ultimately be greater or lesser, depending on the attention paid to the same-sex marriage issue during the duration of the presidential campaign.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:30 AM   #35
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

Good news, bad news regarding this poll.

Good news: 51% support his statement. That is WAY too low, and the fact half of America is anti-gay is disgusting. But at least it's a slight majority. So, we're making progress. People think it's a good thing that he's for marriage equality.

Secondly, 35% of Democrats and Independents support his statement and are more likely to vote for him vs 34% of Dems and Independents who are less likely to vote for him. You'd have to think that out of the 10% of Dems who are less likely to vote for him, about 8% of that 10% will still vote for him. Most Dems against marriage equality aren't so against it that they'll vote for Romney, especially since most of those against his marriage equality pledge are poorer, minority citizens (since that tends to be the group who is anti-gay in the Democrat party) who hate what the Republican party stands for.

The other good thing is this will make the younger independents and Democrats who were less likely to vote get out to the polls. So it did have the desired effect, it has galvanized that base of youth voters.

Bad news: People who are anti-gay are more anti-gay than people who are pro-gay are pro-gay. A little too simplistic, but the point is, people who accept gay people don't see gay issues as issues in the first place. Which is a good thing, but it means they're less motivated by this issue than homophobes who rabidly hate gays. For accepting straights, we're just human beings. For anti-gays, we're reincarnates of the devil. Their hatred of us and their belief that gay marriage will lead to destruction of civilization is the reason why marriage equality struggles to win when put up to vote. This includes most gay people. The passion behind this issue is 100% fabricated by social conservatives anyway, they're the ones making this an issue. People who are pro-gay and gay people themselves are focused more on real lives, and things like economy and jobs.

This motivational gap will never change. So it's going to take a larger plurality of Americans to support marriage equality before it really, really gains traction. The good thing is that social conservatives who are ultra motivated by issues like this weren't going to vote for Obama anyway. At the end of the day, this isn't going to help or hurt him politically.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:37 AM   #36
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...CGU_story.html

Obama’s gay marriage announcement followed by flood of campaign donations

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...U_gallery.html

It is too soon to tell whether President Obama’s endorsement of same-sex marriage will help him or hurt him at the polls in November. But it’s already doing wonders for his campaign’s pocketbook.

Obama’s reelection team is experiencing a major surge in contributions since his announcement, suggesting that the issue could serve as a powerful fundraising tool in the months ahead, according to campaign bundlers and donors.

Fundraisers say the donations began pouring in within minutes of the news Wednesday that Obama, who said he had been “evolving on the issue” for months, affirmed his support for the right of same-sex couples to be married.

The Obama campaign and Democratic Party committees have begun to focus on the issue in their fundraising appeals.

“I am just so happy,” read one fundraising message sent Thursday by Obama finance director Rufus Gifford, who is gay. “If you’re proud of our president, this is a great time to make a donation to the campaign.”

The issue also could benefit the fundraising efforts of presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney, who sides with social conservatives in favoring a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage.

But Romney said in an interview Thursday that he would not attempt to raise money on an “issue as tender” as the definition of marriage. “I don’t think the matter of marriage is really a fundraising matter either for the president and it certainly is not for me,” he told Fox News Channel.

Obama campaign officials declined to say how much money has come in since Wednesday, but one source involved in the effort called the response “astounding.” A spokesman discounted reports that $1 million was donated in the 90 minutes after the president’s announcement.

Regardless of the specifics, it’s clear that Obama’s shift on same-sex marriage is reaping financial rewards for his reelection campaign. The lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community forms an important constituency for him, and gay rights issues animate a broad part of the liberal base regardless of sexual identity.

His position on same-sex marriage could also boost fundraising efforts by independent liberal groups, which have struggled to match better-funded conservative groups. Bill Burton, a spokesman for Priorities USA Action, a pro-Obama super PAC, said the president’s announcement “will almost certainly increase enthusiasm from progressives across the spectrum, both gay and straight.”

An increase in contributions from young and progressive donors could be particularly important for Obama as he struggles to match his performance four years ago, when a hard-fought primary contest and an idealistic wave of supporters helped him shatter campaign finance records.

Fundraisers said many donors have chosen to max out their contributions to the campaign and the Democratic Party over the past day as a sign of support for the president’s stance. Donors this year can give $5,000 to Obama and $30,800 to the Democratic National Committee, as well as additional amounts to committees formed to help Obama in swing states.

“Here I thought the LGBT community was already knocking it out of the ballpark for Obama, and now I see they’ve expanded the ballpark,” said Andrew Tobias, a longtime gay rights activist and treasurer of the DNC. “And many of my straight donors are energized as well. People are excited up and down the line.”

Jonathan Lewis, a major gay fundraiser who had vowed not to back Obama’s reelection effort, is now doing just that and has contributed the maximum amount possible to the campaign, according to a report by The Washington Post’s Plum Line blog.

The announcement on same-sex marriage comes at a time of frenetic fundraising by Obama and Romney, who hosted a gathering in Nebraska on Thursday that reportedly brought in $800,000.

On Thursday night, Obama was slated to attend a $40,000-a-plate dinner at the Los Angeles home of actor George Clooney that could net as much as $16 million in donations online and in person, top donors said.

The campaign has called that number too high but has declined to provide further details. The event could turn out to be the most profitable presidential fundraiser since unlimited donations to political parties were banned a decade ago.

The president is scheduled to return to Los Angeles on June 6 for an LGBT gala to be attended by up to 700 people. Lawyer Dana Perlman, who is helping to organize the event, said he was “ecstatic” about Obama’s endorsement of same-sex marriage and says he expects gay men and lesbians to respond with contributions.

“This man has come out 100 percent for our community, and each and every member of the community must now step up and do everything he or she can to see that he is reelected,” Perlman said.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:54 AM   #37
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

Now, here's what 21 year old unwed mother and unemployed Bristol Palin has to say regarding the matter:

http://www.tmz.com/2012/05/10/bristo...ad-father-for/
"Glee" is bad for America ... so says Bristol Palin ... who just took a shot at the show during an anti-gay marriage blog entry aimed at Barack Obama.

Palin makes it clear -- she believes Obama is a weak, pathetic, stupid man for allowing his daughters to influence his opinion on gay marriage.

In her blog entry, Palin writes, "While it’s great to listen to your kids’ ideas, there’s also a time when dads simply need to be dads. In this case, it would’ve been helpful for him to explain to Malia and Sasha that while her friends parents are no doubt lovely people, that’s not a reason to change thousands of years of thinking about marriage."

The 21-year-old unwed mother continues, "As great as her friends may be – we know that in general kids do better growing up in a mother/father home. Ideally, fathers help shape their kids’ worldview."

"I guess we can be glad that Malia and Sasha aren’t younger, or perhaps today’s press conference might have been about appointing Dora the Explorer as Attorney General because of her success in stopping Swiper the Fox."

Then comes the shot at "Glee" ... as Palin continues, "Sometimes dads should lead their family in the right ways of thinking. In this case, it would’ve been nice if the President would’ve been an actual leader and helped shape their thoughts instead of merely reflecting what many teenagers think after one too many episodes of Glee."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

72% of over 100,000 on the TMZ poll voters believe Palin is a hypocritical asshole with no point. That's a good thing.

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Old 05-12-2012, 01:57 AM   #38
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase Visa View Post
Most anti-gay marriage Democrats are blue-collar Dems that won't vote for him anyway or ethnic Dems who don't vote on social issues.
Exactly. This didn't change anything. Most people already know where they stand on this issue, so all this did was put gay marriage into the forefront of the American conversation.
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:00 AM   #39
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
In australia it's way more than 50-50 because we are not religious freaks.

The only argument i've seen some people i've talked to have against gay marriage is the emotional trauma the kids will undergo when gay couple are allowed to adopt (mainly bullying in school - the biggest cruelties are usually on the playground)
Gillard is anti-gay and a closeted lesbian. Abbott is very anti-gay. None of the parties except the socialists will bring up marriage equality. Based on poll I saw, around 55% of Aussies support marriage equality. Australia is a lot like California, you have Sydney and Melbourne, but there is a lot of rural areas that are very backwater and very Victorian. It's still a major issue.

The adoption issue is bullshit, same-sex couples already adopt. People who bring up that as a reason to deny marriage equality should actually attempt to eliminate homophobia and prevent anti-gay bullying. They don't seem to understand it's homophobia that is the problem and not homosexuality.
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:28 AM   #40
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

Gallup tracking poll has Obama's approval numbers at 53%, his highest in months. Has the gay-rights issue helped Obama this week? Seems like it. People like to support the nice, personable guy who supports his citizens. Romney has this to answer for:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...KFU_story.html

Mitt Romney’s prep school classmates recall pranks, but also troubling incidents

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...U_gallery.html

Mitt Romney returned from a three-week spring break in 1965 to resume his studies as a high school senior at the prestigious Cranbrook School. Back on the handsome campus, studded with Tudor brick buildings and manicured fields, he spotted something he thought did not belong at a school where the boys wore ties and carried briefcases. John Lauber, a soft-spoken new student one year behind Romney, was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality. Now he was walking around the all-boys school with bleached-blond hair that draped over one eye, and Romney wasn’t having it.

“He can’t look like that. That’s wrong. Just look at him!” an incensed Romney told Matthew Friedemann, his close friend in the Stevens Hall dorm, according to Friedemann’s recollection. Mitt, the teenage son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, kept complaining about Lauber’s look, Friedemann recalled.

A few days later, Friedemann entered Stevens Hall off the school’s collegiate quad to find Romney marching out of his own room ahead of a prep school posse shouting about their plan to cut Lauber’s hair. Friedemann followed them to a nearby room where they came upon Lauber, tackled him and pinned him to the ground. As Lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help, Romney repeatedly clipped his hair with a pair of scissors.

The incident was recalled similarly by five students, who gave their accounts independently of one another. Four of them — Friedemann, now a dentist; Phillip Maxwell, a lawyer; Thomas Buford, a retired prosecutor; and David Seed, a retired principal — spoke on the record. Another former student who witnessed the incident asked not to be identified. The men have differing political affiliations, although they mostly lean Democratic. Buford volunteered for Barack Obama’s campaign in 2008. Seed, a registered independent, has served as a Republican county chairman in Michigan. All of them said that politics in no way colored their recollections.

“It happened very quickly, and to this day it troubles me,” said Buford, the school’s wrestling champion, who said he joined Romney in restraining Lauber. Buford subsequently apologized to Lauber, who was “terrified,” he said. “What a senseless, stupid, idiotic thing to do.”

“It was a hack job,” recalled Maxwell, a childhood friend of Romney who was in the dorm room when the incident occurred. “It was vicious.”

“He was just easy pickin’s,” said Friedemann, then the student prefect, or student authority leader of Stevens Hall, expressing remorse about his failure to stop it.

The incident transpired in a flash, and Friedemann said Romney then led his cheering schoolmates back to his bay-windowed room in Stevens Hall.

Friedemann, guilt ridden, made a point of not talking about it with his friend and waited to see what form of discipline would befall Romney at the famously strict institution. Nothing happened.

Romney is now the presumed Republican presidential nominee. His campaign spokeswoman, Andrea Saul, said in a statement that “anyone who knows Mitt Romney knows that he doesn’t have a mean-spirited bone in his body. The stories of fifty years ago seem exaggerated and off base and Governor Romney has no memory of participating in these incidents.”

(to continue reading the rest of the article, click the first link above)
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:31 AM   #41
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

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Quit the drama, there are scores of other countries where gay can marry, yours is trailing way behind in that, so while hugely significant for the poor gay folk in deep Missouri I fail to grasp its importance to the rest of the world.
Most of the world is anti-gay. Obama is the leader of the most publicized, influential countries in the world, and Obama is one of the most influential figures worldwide. Obama has a high likability rating in America and worldwide. He making this statement, America making this statement, is huge news. This puts the pressure on other first-world countries in particular to get with the program.
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Old 05-12-2012, 04:49 AM   #42
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
Now, he's what 21 year old unwed mother and unemployed Bristol Palin has to say regarding the matter:

Palin makes it clear -- she believes Obama is a weak, pathetic, stupid man for allowing his daughters to influence his opinion on gay marriage.

In her blog entry, Palin writes, "While it’s great to listen to your kids’ ideas, there’s also a time when dads simply need to be dads. In this case, it would’ve been helpful for him to explain to Malia and Sasha that while her friends parents are no doubt lovely people, that’s not a reason to change thousands of years of thinking about marriage."

The 21-year-old unwed mother continues, "As great as her friends may be – we know that in general kids do better growing up in a mother/father home. Ideally, fathers help shape their kids’ worldview."

"I guess we can be glad that Malia and Sasha aren’t younger, or perhaps today’s press conference might have been about appointing Dora the Explorer as Attorney General because of her success in stopping Swiper the Fox."

Then comes the shot at "Glee" ... as Palin continues, "Sometimes dads should lead their family in the right ways of thinking. In this case, it would’ve been nice if the President would’ve been an actual leader and helped shape their thoughts instead of merely reflecting what many teenagers think after one too many episodes of Glee."
What an utter clown you are, Bristol

"fathers help shape their kids' worldview" Sure, where's the father of your child? Oh, that's right, he's left you, dragged your family through the mud in the tabloids, posed nude for Playboy and is now with another girl, knocked her up out of wedlock and is planning to name their child after a gun model. What a fantastic role model for little Tripp or whatever that poor kid's name is.
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Old 05-12-2012, 06:08 AM   #43
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

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What an utter clown you are, Bristol

"fathers help shape their kids' worldview" Sure, where's the father of your child? Oh, that's right, he's left you, dragged your family through the mud in the tabloids, posed nude for Playboy and is now with another girl, knocked her up out of wedlock and is planning to name their child after a gun model. What a fantastic role model for little Tripp or whatever that poor kid's name is.
omg I'm dying
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:29 AM   #44
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

decent policy but seriously, this is just another political manouver to get more votes delivered to you by one of the pussiest presidents in the history of the USA, Barack Obama.

i've seen/read too much crap from him to believe what he truly thinks. as most politicians, he says what's best for him to say.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:04 AM   #45
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Default Re: President Barack Obama becomes the first in US history to endorse marriage equali

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
decent policy but seriously, this is just another political manouver to get more votes delivered to you by one of the pussiest presidents in the history of the USA, Barack Obama.

i've seen/read too much crap from him to believe what he truly thinks. as most politicians, he says what's best for him to say.
Totally, but it helps the gay community in terms of acceptance, and also it exposes homophobes/homophobia. Both of these things are good. We cannot progress without having a conversation on this issue.
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