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View Poll Results: How will it look?

Nadal more than 15 matches ahead. 108 40.30%
Nadal 13-14 matches ahead. 25 9.33%
Nadal 11-12 matches ahead. 19 7.09%
Nadal 9-10 matches ahead. 20 7.46%
Nadal 7-8 matches ahead. 20 7.46%
Nadal 5-6 matches ahead. 19 7.09%
Nadal 3-4 matches ahead. 5 1.87%
Nadal 1-2 matches ahead. 1 0.37%
Equal 4 1.49%
Federer ahead 47 17.54%
Voters: 268. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-07-2012, 06:47 PM   #961
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
It makes it special but for reasons beyond what is normal competitive value. You simply cannot judge an event's merit by the amount of joy a player derives from winning it.
Obviously Basel is the real 5th slam because the GOAT cried when he won it.
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Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:52 PM   #962
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Originally Posted by durrrr View Post
Fumus is just a duck fanboy. Bitter for all these years. Just like tangy and star
Yup so bitter about the former number 1, US OPEN/Davis cup champion who spent a decade in the top 10 and won dozens of titles...including one every year since being on tour...

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
He never used to be that bad but nowadays, he's copying all the parrots with the same old crap. If you can't beat 'em join 'em....

He's actually doing a heya with his 'federer gets owned, LOL' schtick
Glad I'm so memorable. I'm not trying parrot anyone, I'm a rogue poster and I say whatever I want. If you and your collective group of 4-5 Murray fan boys can't come up with decent arguments to refute what I am saying then I guess you can just resort to calling me a bitter troll.

You Murray fans really take everything so personally.

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Originally Posted by fivebargate View Post
I was going to address Fumus post point by point....but on someone so illogical without any inclination of sporting understanding beyond "I love Rrrafa", I feel my words would be lost.
Illogical? WTF!? I didn't just make things up. I actually backed up what I said with examples. That's more than anyone else here has been able to do. And when the hell did I become a die hard Rafa fan?

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Originally Posted by luie View Post
Agreed . Fumus was never this bitter , it was usually black Adam , tangy and Sawan leading the anti - fed contingent .
Seems like in the absence of these posters he is over compensating a bit . With the run of the mill nadull owns fed Type garbage and such. The years it seems only to fuel his hatred and bitterness it seems.
What if Novak didn't have breathing and physical problems how much would nadull win?
If technology did help nadull hit so many rpms with modern strings. If the courts hadn't slowness down to help retrievers. And hamper ball strikers , how many slams would nadull hold. ? We could go on and on but it wouldn't make any difference.
Nadull is just a glorified Sergi burgueura
Whoa...I've always led the anti-Fed contingent. Typing garbage?! Look at the part of your post I bolded. You tell me if you can actually back up anything you said there.

Nadal played with cheap polyester string for most of his career until adopting RPM Blast a few years ago.

Rafa had one bad year against Novak but he still leads the H2H and over came him this year when they've played. So breathing problems or not Nadal would still have achieved the same.

If by glorified you mean that he's the greatest clay court player and one of the greatest tennis players ever to set foot on this earth...then yes. LOL. Blind hate by me? I think the pot is calling the kettle black a bit here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Feldman View Post
Fumus is bitter because he hates Murray, check Wimbledin final thread and see him crowing about Muzza never winning anything


that Olympic gold butthurt him badly, he's blaming Fed

Yea - because I hate his whiny/faking nature and passive game play. Given the choice though, I was rooting for him to win Wimbledon over Fed, I made that known. I always root for the under dog first. This is also why I wanted to see him win gold over Federer.

This is completely different from my thought that the Olympics are a sham exhibition event for professional tennis players.

I was not butthurt at all...I hope Murray proves me wrong and wins the open but I doubt he will.

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
Exactly what I was about to post. I've never seen such a butthurt non-Nadull fanboy except Nole fan in her prime.
I've never seen 5 posters in a thread that couldn't put a single coherent argument together but instead resort to name calling and other off topic nonsense.

I've always been about talking tennis...isn't that what this forum is about? Sharing opinions on the games best tennis players? I'm sorry you guys disagree with what I am saying but that's the point of MTF.
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Anyone who says any player has no chance against Dolgopolov is clearly trolling.
That's the gospel.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:52 PM   #963
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
Obviously Basel is the real 5th slam because the GOAT cried when he won it.
... and lost in Final to Henman 2001

poor Fed, been crushed in 2 of his fave Finals by Brits
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:55 PM   #964
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
It makes it special but for reasons beyond what is normal competitive value. You simply cannot judge an event's merit by the amount of joy a player derives from winning it.
Not necesarily the joy they derive from winning it, but the level of motivation TO win it. And if almost all the players are in agreement about their particular motivation to win a tournament, then I disagree, I definately think that makes it more valuable. And in the eyes of the world's media, former players etc... pretty much everything that collectively assigns importance to an event, the Olympics are right up there (now). But whatever, I've always said it's apples to oranges, sort of like trying to compare Wimbledon to an Oscar. How can you say one is better? They're very different achievements.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:55 PM   #965
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

Writing long essays won't change people's opinion on your bias. Ask Ash86. BTW, before trying to defend yourself do not slam players and whine as if they've taken your lolly when they lose a match. Be prepared for the consequences of your actions .
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Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:03 PM   #966
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Originally Posted by BigJohn View Post
One more time, simplified so you can understand:

You said Fed wins, but since Rafa was not good enough to reach the final, Fed's win is tainted.

I say that is a pathetically retarded statement.

Got it?
Again with the bashing and angry talk...why are you guys so hostile? Settle down, drink some Canadian beer. Why are you angry about debating tennis? It's like people here are mad that I think differently then they do. JESH!

I didn't say Rafa wasn't good enough to reach the final. LOL. This is you putting a little twist on things. I said Federer was fortunate and lucky that he didn't have to play Nadal in the final...in fact, any GS that he wins from now til he retires where he doesn't have to play Nadal is lucky. This taints the victory, there's an asterisk next to it. It has to be there. I am not taking the slams away but I am saying they don't mean as much because he didn't prove that he could beat Rafa on the big stage again...the one guy who clearly has had his number throughout his career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looner View Post
Writing long essays won't change people's opinion on your bias. Ask Ash86. BTW, before trying to defend yourself do not slam players and whine as if they've taken your lolly when they lose a match. Be prepared for the consequences of your actions .

Oh whatever, I write because 99% of this forum is about the players and don't even watch the tennis being played on the court. I don't know why you and the posters here have to make everything I post into some kind of a personal attack but whatever, you aren't responding to anything I write by refuting my points you are just trying to damage my character somehow.

Again, it's just silly because I wanted Murray to win gold, LOL...I said that. I wanted Murray to win Wimbledon too. As far as Fed goes, I'm not a fan of his but if you can't argue what I am saying I prefer you tone down the name calling and personal attacks. I'm talking about tennis and you guys are just talking about me.
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Anyone who says any player has no chance against Dolgopolov is clearly trolling.
That's the gospel.

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Old 08-07-2012, 07:04 PM   #967
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Originally Posted by Fumus View Post

Glad I'm so memorable. I'm not trying parrot anyone, I'm a rogue poster and I say whatever I want. If you and your collective group of 4-5 Murray fan boys can't come up with decent arguments to refute what I am saying then I guess you can just resort to calling me a bitter troll.
Yeah Olympics means fuck all and Federer's lucky when Nadal fails to get it done before he faces him, that's not tennis talk that's copying off the metronome trolls.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:10 PM   #968
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

I am getting scared. Now Fumus is trying the CD tactic with the alcohol. Has CD hijacked his account. I knew Sparta cannot be kept down .

BTW, your arguments about fortunate and lucky are ridiculous. Nadull was not lucky when Djoko was 1.0 for most of their rivalry but Federer's lucky. Double standards and ridiculous logic galore.
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Originally Posted by Orbis View Post
Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:14 PM   #969
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Yeah Olympics means fuck all and Federer's lucky when Nadal fails to get it done before he faces him, that's not tennis talk that's copying off the metronome trolls.
Yes you've gotten the gist of what I'm trying to say. I didn't know other posters were trolling it. I don't really pay attention to anyone...as I am a rogue poster.

In my eyes however, what I am saying is more talking about tennis then trying to slam me as a poster and calling me "bitter" or "retarded" or whatever other name calling you guys want to resort to.

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
I am getting scared. Now Fumus is trying the CD tactic with the alcohol. Has CD hijacked his account. I knew Sparta cannot be kept down .

BTW, your arguments about fortunate and lucky are ridiculous. Nadull was not lucky when Djoko was 1.0 for most of their rivalry but Federer's lucky. Double standards and ridiculous logic galore.
Really what version is Djoko this year? Just curious.

You haven't said anything that shows my logic to be ridiculous or that I have a double standard. I've been pretty clear about what I am saying. You haven't clearly shown me that I am wrong in anyway.
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Anyone who says any player has no chance against Dolgopolov is clearly trolling.
That's the gospel.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:20 PM   #970
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
Yes you've gotten the gist of what I'm trying to say. I didn't know other posters were trolling it. I don't really pay attention to anyone...as I am a rogue poster.
Well Olympics is so pointless Nole was in tears after losing in Beijing and Del Potro was doing the waterworks after winning a bronze. And if Nadal loses early in a slam he's not the best player in it is he. So your two 'tennis talk' points are dismissed.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:46 PM   #971
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Yup so bitter about the former number 1, US OPEN/Davis cup champion who spent a decade in the top 10 and won dozens of titles...including one every year since being on tour...



Glad I'm so memorable. I'm not trying parrot anyone, I'm a rogue poster and I say whatever I want. If you and your collective group of 4-5 Murray fan boys can't come up with decent arguments to refute what I am saying then I guess you can just resort to calling me a bitter troll.

You Murray fans really take everything so personally.



Illogical? WTF!? I didn't just make things up. I actually backed up what I said with examples. That's more than anyone else here has been able to do. And when the hell did I become a die hard Rafa fan?



Whoa...I've always led the anti-Fed contingent. Typing garbage?! Look at the part of your post I bolded. You tell me if you can actually back up anything you said there.

Nadal played with cheap polyester string for most of his career until adopting RPM Blast a few years ago.

Rafa had one bad year against Novak but he still leads the H2H and over came him this year when they've played. So breathing problems or not Nadal would still have achieved the same.

If by glorified you mean that he's the greatest clay court player and one of the greatest tennis players ever to set foot on this earth...then yes. LOL. Blind hate by me? I think the pot is calling the kettle black a bit here.




Yea - because I hate his whiny/faking nature and passive game play. Given the choice though, I was rooting for him to win Wimbledon over Fed, I made that known. I always root for the under dog first. This is also why I wanted to see him win gold over Federer.

This is completely different from my thought that the Olympics are a sham exhibition event for professional tennis players.

I was not butthurt at all...I hope Murray proves me wrong and wins the open but I doubt he will.



I've never seen 5 posters in a thread that couldn't put a single coherent argument together but instead resort to name calling and other off topic nonsense.

I've always been about talking tennis...isn't that what this forum is about? Sharing opinions on the games best tennis players? I'm sorry you guys disagree with what I am saying but that's the point of MTF.
Off -course I can back it up. Conditions today are much slower than in the past to aide moonballing. Nadull has always played with modern strings , not natural gut like Borg an such. Recently nadull had to add pounds to his racquet head for more power but less control , as he aged that was a few years ago. Nadull the glorified Sergi wouldn't survive in the 90s of clay.
Novak has mostly only lost to nadull because of stamina issues. Go back and look at their matches nadull "wore down " Novak . It was the only way he could win , off clay.
Once Novak solved his stamina issues it was curtains for nadull off clay. Nadull is only dominant on clay against fed n Novak .
One bad year he he he went 7-0 all in finals from March 11 - jan 12. He defeated nadull on all surfaces and 3 slams in Nadulls PRIME.
So then why can't fed have a bad year also against his greatest rival April-08 -jan 09 5-0 in finals including 2 non clay slams. That 5-0 sent the h2h in Nadulls favour . It has been respectable before and after that mono period.
Double standard much. Nadull only leads the h2h via clay.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:47 PM   #972
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Well Olympics is so pointless Nole was in tears after losing in Beijing and Del Potro was doing the waterworks after winning a bronze. And if Nadal loses early in a slam he's not the best player in it is he. So your two 'tennis talk' points are dismissed.
Oh yea, for sure the players want to win...some more than other depending on their country. But it's trivial in comparison to winning a grand slam...ANY grand slam. It's an exhibition...I would argue Davis Cup means much more to the players than the Olympics.

So yes even though players have cried after winning and seemingly care it's not anywhere close to being as prestigious as winning a major.

I never said he was the "best" player...I just said if Federer wins a slam without facing him along the way it's easier for him and he's the benefactor of some good luck. Him winning Wimbledon or RG without beating Nadal means less because that's his biggest rival. Imagine how much more impressive his resume would be if he was the one who beat Rafa in the final of RG or if he was able to beat him at Wimbledon and avenge the 2008 loss.

Instead when Rafa losses early or is not there due to injury you will have to ask the question could Federer have beaten Nadal? We'll never know. What I do know is that he avoided having to play his great nemesis in winning his last 3 grand slams. That's not a small coincidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luie View Post
Off -course I can back it up. Conditions today are much slower than in the past to aide moonballing. Nadull has always played with modern strings , not natural gut like Borg an such. Recently nadull had to add pounds to his racquet head for more power but less control , as he aged that was a few years ago. Nadull the glorified Sergi wouldn't survive in the 90s of clay.
Novak has mostly only lost to nadull because of stamina issues. Go back and look at their matches nadull "wore down " Novak . It was the only way he could win , off clay.
Once Novak solved his stamina issues it was curtains for nadull off clay. Nadull is only dominant on clay against fed n Novak .
One bad year he he he went 7-0 all in finals from March 11 - jan 12. He defeated nadull on all surfaces and 3 slams in Nadulls PRIME.
So then why can't fed have a bad year also against his greatest rival April-08 -jan 09 5-0 in finals including 2 non clay slams. That 5-0 sent the h2h in Nadulls favour . It has been respectable before and after that mono period.
Double standard much. Nadull only leads the h2h via clay.
What do the conditions have to do with anything? Now you are just stating irrelevant facts. Who cares about the conditions or the balls or the strings...all the players have these technologies to play with it's not a competitive advantage.

Again, also irrelevant that he "wore" Novak down...that's tennis, what does winning only count if a player hits 90 winners in a match? You know Novak plays counter punching retrieving style as well...LOL. He just hits the ball flatter and is opportunistic with when he hits winners(plays risky at times).

I love how I am called the biased hater. Look at your argument. You refer to Nadals style of play as "moonballing"...and call him "Nadull" how can I even take you seriously on this.

You not making any points you are just whining and coming up with excuses as to why Nadal is so great.
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Anyone who says any player has no chance against Dolgopolov is clearly trolling.
That's the gospel.

Last edited by Fumus : 08-07-2012 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:53 PM   #973
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

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Oh yea, for sure the players want to win...some more than other depending on their country. But it's trivial in comparison to winning a grand slam...ANY grand slam. It's an exhibition...I would argue Davis Cup means much more to the players than the Olympics.

So yes even though players have cried after winning and seemingly care it's not anywhere close to being as prestigious as winning a major.

I never said he was the "best" player...I just said if Federer wins a slam without facing him along the way it's easier for him and he's the benefactor of some good luck. Him winning Wimbledon or RG without beating Nadal means less because that's his biggest rival. Imagine how much more impressive his resume would be if he was the one who beat Rafa in the final of RG or if he was able to beat him at Wimbledon and avenge the 2008 loss.

Instead when Rafa losses early or is not there due to injury you will have to ask the question could Federer have beaten Nadal? We'll never know. What I do know is that he avoided having to play his great nemesis in winning his last 3 grand slams. That's not a small coincidence.
Well being a Roddick fan in that case you could argue at the USO he avoided Hewitt (who owned him at the time), Federer (nuff said) and Agassi. Every slam champ had something go their way, you don't win these things without the stars aligning.

As for Olympics not being as big as a GS win, fair opinion but you said that 'the Olympics are a sham exhibition event for professional tennis players', not that they were below a slam in importance.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:53 PM   #974
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
Again with the bashing and angry talk...why are you guys so hostile? Settle down, drink some Canadian beer. Why are you angry about debating tennis? It's like people here are mad that I think differently then they do. JESH!

I didn't say Rafa wasn't good enough to reach the final. LOL. This is you putting a little twist on things. I said Federer was fortunate and lucky that he didn't have to play Nadal in the final...in fact, any GS that he wins from now til he retires where he doesn't have to play Nadal is lucky. This taints the victory, there's an asterisk next to it. It has to be there. I am not taking the slams away but I am saying they don't mean as much because he didn't prove that he could beat Rafa on the big stage again...the one guy who clearly has had his number throughout his career.
There is no bashing and no angry talk. Just stating facts. People are not mad because you think differently, that is bound to occur in forums, but, speaking for myself, don't like to be presented with ridiculous statements that have no value that are easily debunked yet presented as universally accepted truths... (what you are doing)

I am the one that said Nadal was not good enough to reach the final, that is not an opinion, it is a fact, had he been better he would have won those matches, yet he did not. He could not reach the final because he was not good enough. Federer was good enough and won. Those win cannot be tainted because Nadal was clearly in a lesser form than Federer. That argument is retarded.

You put too much emphasis on the H2H, like many Nadaltards. And that H2H with Federer is tainted because Nadal was not good enough to reach the finals to meet Federer when Federer was in his prime.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:55 PM   #975
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Default Re: Endless Federer-Nadal debates (WTF vs Olympics)

Fed in 2008 lost to practically everyone , even his pigeons , a sure sign of physical and mental decline and why not he was almost 27 just past his PRIME.
So nadull was just an opputunistic player to take advantage of a declining federer.
Here is the difference , Novak took it away from PRIME nadull , nadull was losing no no one except NOVAK and he was 24 years old. Nadull is no bench mark for greatness off clay mate , to anyone including federer. He should win something first.
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THE GREAT TACTICAL RIVALRY OF THE OPEN ERA
FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
ADVANTAGE TONI NADAL
RAPHEAL NADULL,A PRETTY FACE & MUSCLE
NOTHING MORE

Fed 2 nadull 13 fed is nadull CLAY TURKEY. THE REAL ERA 2003-2010.
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