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View Poll Results: How will it look?

Nadal more than 15 matches ahead. 103 39.31%
Nadal 13-14 matches ahead. 25 9.54%
Nadal 11-12 matches ahead. 19 7.25%
Nadal 9-10 matches ahead. 20 7.63%
Nadal 7-8 matches ahead. 20 7.63%
Nadal 5-6 matches ahead. 18 6.87%
Nadal 3-4 matches ahead. 5 1.91%
Nadal 1-2 matches ahead. 1 0.38%
Equal 4 1.53%
Federer ahead 47 17.94%
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-25-2010, 04:21 AM   #46
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartbroken View Post
While winning a NCYGS would be quite an accomplishment, the thread is about calendar year accomplishments...

To me, the whole "dominance" argument sounds like a fan's perspective, not a player's perspective. If your opinion is that the players care about being dominant more than winning slams, or that dominance would break a tie in slam titles, I have no problem with that opinion. I just disagree. Even the great ones can have a surface that gives them trouble. You think Mac would have traded a few victories in '84 for a FO title? I do. As Fed was being hammered by Nadal in the 2008 FO final, if he magically had the opportunity to trade some previous "dominance" for a single FO title, do you think he would have done so? I do.

Again, all bets are off when you consider a career. If you know you are going to win every major event anyway, or feel confident about your chances, then perhaps it just doesn't matter?

As for the "mammoth stretch" part, I don't know what to tell you. Nobody pulled off what Nadal did since Laver, regardless of how "dominant" they might have been. And nobody did the FO, WIM, USO triple on three different surfaces. If that doesn't merit consideration for top season in your book, that's fine, but I think the accomplishment speaks for itself. Everyone is free to have their own interpretation of accomplishments, and I have no interest in changing anyone's mind on this topic. The OP asked for opinions, and I've given mine.
Fair point. There's definately a gulf between what spectators see as important as opposed to players. I'm reading Agassi's autobiography at the moment and he talks about the summer of 95 where he went 26-1 on US hard courts winning four straight titles, but says he would have gladly traded all 26 victories for a win over Pete in the US Open final, a loss that he didn't get over for years and saw him spend 3 years in the tennis wilderness. Statistically Fed's 04-07 and Mac's 84 look unbeatable, but if I were a player myself, I'd choose to have Nadal's 2010 over any of them. Does that make it a "better" year objectively speaking though? Depends how you define it.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:27 AM   #47
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartbroken View Post
While winning a NCYGS would be quite an accomplishment, the thread is about calendar year accomplishments...
Just trying to demonstrate what would actually be something special, that players might actually trade some losses for.
Quote:
To me, the whole "dominance" argument sounds like a fan's perspective, not a player's perspective. If your opinion is that the players care about being dominant more than winning slams, or that dominance would break a tie in slam titles, I have no problem with that opinion. I just disagree. Even the great ones can have a surface that gives them trouble. You think Mac would have traded a few victories in '84 for a FO title? I do. As Fed was being hammered by Nadal in the 2008 FO final, if he magically had the opportunity to trade some previous "dominance" for a single FO title, do you think he would have done so? I do.
You have the argument all wrong. Federer and Nadal won the same number of slams in their respective years, so we're not talking about if players would trade slams for more wins. In fact Federer actually did better than Nadal, making all four finals, guess how many people have done that since Laver? You're argument is that winning on three different surfaces, is somehow superior to absolute dominance. That's the crux of the issue, McEnroe and his FO is a completely different argument, particularly given there were in practicality only 3 slams during his peak. And how exactly are you differentiating between a fan and players perspective, given, I presume, you are the former, and not the latter?
Quote:
As for the "mammoth stretch" part, I don't know what to tell you. Nobody pulled off what Nadal did since Laver, regardless of how "dominant" they might have been. And nobody did the FO, WIM, USO triple on three different surfaces. If that doesn't merit consideration for top season in your book, that's fine, but I think the accomplishment speaks for itself. Everyone is free to have their own interpretation of accomplishments, and I have no interest in changing anyone's mind on this topic. The OP asked for opinions, and I've given mine.
And who exactly has pulled off what Federer or Mcenroe did? Nobody, not even Laver. Of course the tour was different then so there is no real way to compare. Essentially you're argument is that winning on three different surfaces is superior to utterly dominating the tour on an absolutely unprecedented level, well of course there's going to be disagreement.

Anyways, not saying you're right or wrong, this is obviously all utterly subjective, I am simply offering a different perspective.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:19 AM   #48
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by born_on_clay View Post
Nadals 2010 season without a doubt :
- 3 consecutive Slams on 3 different surfaces !
- clay "Grand Slam"
- completing career golden grand slam
- first male ever to win 3 consecutive Masters 1000 tourneys
Yet after the AO you were writing his obituory
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:25 AM   #49
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by The Magician View Post
All of these are manufactured by the press and Nadulltards. "Golden Slam" is completely made up by the American media to make Agassi seem more important than he was (also Graf to promote WTA as a sport ), no one except Nadulltards cares about the Olympics. 3 consecutive MS and the clay "GS" are also totally made up, those accomplishments would have been impossible without 1st round byes and getting rid of best of 5 set finals (also getting rid of Hamburg to ensure Nadull would win them all). 3 consecutive slams is the only accomplishment that matters here, but that pales in comparison to 4 consecutive GS finals (winning 3) and TMC, especially when put in context of Fed beating Nadull in 5 for the Wimbledon title and his unbelievable play at the AO.

The answer is obviously Fed 2007, however promoting Nadull as the GOAT and 2010 as rival to Fed's best years is much better for TV ratings and the media hype machine, which Nadulltards are more than willing to swallow
Shut up, kid.

Your Nadal hating is so pitiful. How old are you?
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:35 AM   #50
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

@all the nadal fans in this thread

stay out of the threads started by 2003 whose only real motive is to look like a total clown........anyone with even a half functioning brain would pick nadal's 2010 for 3 slams over the 3 major surfaces in the same year which frauderina couldn't even dream of in her wildest of dreams as long as nadal is around, and also to go with that the kind of domination he exhibited in his victories, even greek warrior sampras was awed at the kind of domination rafa showed.......the discussion ends there itself.......

now one would naturally have a doubt.......why do fedtards argue against the truth? the answer is simple and can be guessed by anyone........the fact that nadal owns frauderina like his slave in slam finals across all the 3 major surfaces.......that intolerable dose of reality seems to be killing them since the australian open final 2009.......
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Old 09-25-2010, 11:13 AM   #51
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

Quote:
Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
@all the nadal fans in this thread

stay out of the threads started by 2003 whose only real motive is to look like a total clown........anyone with even a half functioning brain would pick nadal's 2010 for 3 slams over the 3 major surfaces in the same year which frauderina couldn't even dream of in her wildest of dreams as long as nadal is around, and also to go with that the kind of domination he exhibited in his victories, even greek warrior sampras was awed at the kind of domination rafa showed.......the discussion ends there itself.......

now one would naturally have a doubt.......why do fedtards argue against the truth? the answer is simple and can be guessed by anyone........the fact that nadal owns frauderina like his slave in slam finals across all the 3 major surfaces.......that intolerable dose of reality seems to be killing them since the australian open final 2009.......
Thanks for the exquisite explanation, Start da Game. One needed some kind of rational explanation to reconcile this heinous act. I will ignore all future violations of uncivilized Fedtard conduct.
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Old 09-25-2010, 01:50 PM   #52
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

Fed winning the poll
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:37 AM   #53
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by rafa_maniac View Post
Fair point. There's definately a gulf between what spectators see as important as opposed to players. I'm reading Agassi's autobiography at the moment and he talks about the summer of 95 where he went 26-1 on US hard courts winning four straight titles, but says he would have gladly traded all 26 victories for a win over Pete in the US Open final, a loss that he didn't get over for years and saw him spend 3 years in the tennis wilderness. Statistically Fed's 04-07 and Mac's 84 look unbeatable, but if I were a player myself, I'd choose to have Nadal's 2010 over any of them. Does that make it a "better" year objectively speaking though? Depends how you define it.
Yep, I think you understood my point perfectly. It's not so much that I think Nadal's season is "better" than someone else's. Rather, I simply imagine it being a VERY appealing combination to many players. It would certainly be my choice if I were a player, but I only wish I were good enough to win a single point at a challenger event.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:46 AM   #54
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

Uh... I can't understand why there's even a poll.

Rafa's season has eclipsed ALL tennis players accomplishments since Laver.

C'mon people.. if it were Roger winning the French, Wimby, and USO back to back... We'll he's never done it so

This doesn't take away the fact overall Roger has had a great career.

But give Rafa a little credit... jeez. Rafa basically won the triple crown of tennis. All he has to do is win the AO next year to complete a Rafa slam!

Believe me, Roger would have loved to have had Rafa's year this year! Roger would also loved to have won an Olympic gold, but I digress!

Borg would have loved Rafa's year this year. C'mon people...
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:47 AM   #55
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by Macbrother View Post
Just trying to demonstrate what would actually be something special, that players might actually trade some losses for.


You have the argument all wrong. Federer and Nadal won the same number of slams in their respective years, so we're not talking about if players would trade slams for more wins. In fact Federer actually did better than Nadal, making all four finals, guess how many people have done that since Laver? You're argument is that winning on three different surfaces, is somehow superior to absolute dominance. That's the crux of the issue, McEnroe and his FO is a completely different argument, particularly given there were in practicality only 3 slams during his peak. And how exactly are you differentiating between a fan and players perspective, given, I presume, you are the former, and not the latter?


And who exactly has pulled off what Federer or Mcenroe did? Nobody, not even Laver. Of course the tour was different then so there is no real way to compare. Essentially you're argument is that winning on three different surfaces is superior to utterly dominating the tour on an absolutely unprecedented level, well of course there's going to be disagreement.

Anyways, not saying you're right or wrong, this is obviously all utterly subjective, I am simply offering a different perspective.
As a fan, I think Fed's best season (take your pick which one) and Nadal's best season (2010) are both worthy of consideration as the best since Laver. I'm not excluding any other player's seasons from consideration either. Pick whatever season you like best, and you will get no complaints from me.

My main point was that if I was a tour player, I would personally choose Nadal's season, because it would come closer to what MY dream season would look like.

It's a relatively small number of players that win even a single grand slam during their careers. If we gave those players a chance to choose a dream year, I think Nadal's 2010 would get some votes. I'm confident that a fair number of players would covet a slam win on each of the three surfaces, and that some would pass on Fed's best season in order to get that combination.

Alternatively, if we asked players that had already won grand slams, I think it would depend on who you asked. Even the greats would love to have the trophies that are missing from their collection.

I think Mac would love to have a FO title, Borg would love to have a USO title, Lendl would love to have a Wimbledon title, etc. If Mac had to trade his '84 season for Fed's 2006 or Nadal's 2010, I believe he would pick 2010, just to get that FO title in the deal. If Borg had to trade, I think he would pick Fed's 2006. I think Borg would love to have 2 quality hard court slams to match the bevy of grass and clay slams he already has. Yes, the AO wasn't relevant in Borg's day, but it was fully relevant when Fed won it. The point is that Borg lacked hard court slams, so Fed's season would be a better "trade" for him, IMO.

I realize that other factors can come into play besides just what slams were won in a given year, but I think the slams would weigh VERY heavily with most players if they were asked to choose the "better" season. From the perspective of Fed or Nadal, I don't see much reason for one to covet the other's best season. I'm sure both are thrilled with their best seasons, considering both have won all 4 slams anyway.

Again, I have no interest in convincing anyone to accept my opinion. I offered an opinion to the original poster, because he asked for opinions. Up to a point, I'm willing to try to clarify that opinion, but I just don't have anything else to add to the discussion...
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:52 AM   #56
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartbroken View Post
As a fan, I think Fed's best season (take your pick which one) and Nadal's best season (2010) are both worthy of consideration as the best since Laver. I'm not excluding any other player's seasons from consideration either. Pick whatever season you like best, and you will get no complaints from me.

My main point was that if I was a tour player, I would personally choose Nadal's season, because it would come closer to what MY dream season would look like.

It's a relatively small number of players that win even a single grand slam during their careers. If we gave those players a chance to choose a dream year, I think Nadal's 2010 would get some votes. I'm confident that a fair number of players would covet a slam win on each of the three surfaces, and that some would pass on Fed's best season in order to get that combination.

Alternatively, if we asked players that had already won grand slams, I think it would depend on who you asked. Even the greats would love to have the trophies that are missing from their collection.

I think Mac would love to have a FO title, Borg would love to have a USO title, Lendl would love to have a Wimbledon title, etc. If Mac had to trade his '84 season for Fed's 2006 or Nadal's 2010, I believe he would pick 2010, just to get that FO title in the deal. If Borg had to trade, I think he would pick Fed's 2006. I think Borg would love to have 2 quality hard court slams to match the bevy of grass and clay slams he already has. Yes, the AO wasn't relevant in Borg's day, but it was fully relevant when Fed won it. The point is that Borg lacked hard court slams, so Fed's season would be a better "trade" for him, IMO.

I realize that other factors can come into play besides just what slams were won in a given year, but I think the slams would weigh VERY heavily with most players if they were asked to choose the "better" season. From the perspective of Fed or Nadal, I don't see much reason for one to covet the other's best season. I'm sure both are thrilled with their best seasons, considering both have won all 4 slams anyway.

Again, I have no interest in convincing anyone to accept my opinion. I offered an opinion to the original poster, because he asked for opinions. Up to a point, I'm willing to try to clarify that opinion, but I just don't have anything else to add to the discussion...

This is the deal. If Roger had a season in 2010 where he won the FO, Wimby, and USO back to back even, he'd even say it would have eclipsed his achievements in 2007!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C'mon people! C'mon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:07 AM   #57
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by andylovesaustin View Post
This is the deal. If Roger had a season in 2010 where he won the FO, Wimby, and USO back to back even, he'd even say it would have eclipsed his achievements in 2007!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C'mon people! C'mon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Federer was one tie-break away from doing it in 2009, and if he had, 2009 would not have been a better season than his 2007.

Not to say that Nadal's 2010 is worse than Federer's 2007 (I think Nadal's is better) but the amount of circle jerking over the three slams on three surfaces in one year is getting ridiculous. I think the accomplishment will be repeated in the future because sadly, the task is easier than it was previous eras. For what it's worth, I think Mac's '84 and Federer's '06 and '05 are better years than Nadal's 2010, but to me, the dominance a player achieved in a year is not just a measure of the number of slams won.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:17 AM   #58
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

That quarter final result does Nadal no favors, he got beat by a player without a slam in Murray.
Whereas it took one of the greatest clay courters to deny Fed at the french where he made the final.
There's not much else to say here, it all starts with slam results.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:20 AM   #59
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

Quote:
Originally Posted by heartbroken View Post
Yep, I think you understood my point perfectly. It's not so much that I think Nadal's season is "better" than someone else's. Rather, I simply imagine it being a VERY appealing combination to many players. It would certainly be my choice if I were a player, but I only wish I were good enough to win a single point at a challenger event.
It's a tough question measuring personal appeal in regards to the quality of a season because for instance, everyone agrees that a final appearance is a better achievement in a Slam than a Qf appearance. From the perspective of the players though, I'd take going out to Murray with an injury issue in the Oz Open Qf over losing another FO final to my main rival at the only Slam I hadn't won, without even thinking twice.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:27 AM   #60
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by Mechlan View Post
Federer was one tie-break away from doing it in 2009, and if he had, 2009 would not have been a better season than his 2007.

Not to say that Nadal's 2010 is worse than Federer's 2007 (I think Nadal's is better) but the amount of circle jerking over the three slams on three surfaces in one year is getting ridiculous. I think the accomplishment will be repeated in the future because sadly, the task is easier than it was previous eras. For what it's worth, I think Mac's '84 and Federer's '06 and '05 are better years than Nadal's 2010, but to me, the dominance a player achieved in a year is not just a measure of the number of slams won.
So what? C'mon... I don't care if Roger was a tie-break away or not..he didn't do it!

I'm telling ya... Roger would have LOVED to have had Rafa's year, but you go on ahead and keep suggesting there was a possibility Roger trumped Rafa... Nevermind NOBODY SINCE LAVER had Rafa's seaons... NOBODY..

Overall.. sure Roger's record stand. But Rafa has had the best year....compared to anyone.
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