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View Poll Results: How will it look?

Nadal more than 15 matches ahead. 103 39.31%
Nadal 13-14 matches ahead. 25 9.54%
Nadal 11-12 matches ahead. 19 7.25%
Nadal 9-10 matches ahead. 20 7.63%
Nadal 7-8 matches ahead. 20 7.63%
Nadal 5-6 matches ahead. 18 6.87%
Nadal 3-4 matches ahead. 5 1.91%
Nadal 1-2 matches ahead. 1 0.38%
Equal 4 1.53%
Federer ahead 47 17.94%
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-29-2011, 03:46 AM   #571
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
because all Fed fans say look at his record outside of Clay against Nadal.......hell I can say that about Djokovic and then Nole would own Rafa in H2H
You guys just don't get it. It's not that clay doesn't matter, but simply that Nadal dominating the H2H on clay does not reveal anything you wont find out simply by comparing their overall record and achievements on clay. Why is that so hard to understand? The H2H only tells us Nadal is superior on clay, that's it. It doesn't show he's superior anywhere else. Even if you completely ignore performance against the rest of the field (which would be quite silly) and only go by the H2H, Nadal still doesn't come out as the better player on hard court or grass.

The Djokovic Nadal H2H suggest Novak is the better hard court player, which he is.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:15 AM   #572
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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Originally Posted by Mjau! View Post
You guys just don't get it. It's not that clay doesn't matter, but simply that Nadal dominating the H2H on clay does not reveal anything you wont find out simply by comparing their overall record and achievements on clay. Why is that so hard to understand? The H2H only tells us Nadal is superior on clay, that's it. It doesn't show he's superior anywhere else. Even if you completely ignore performance against the rest of the field (which would be quite silly) and only go by the H2H, Nadal still doesn't come out as the better player on hard court or grass.

The Djokovic Nadal H2H suggest Novak is the better hard court player, which he is.
Federer has a very slender lead on HCs an Grass. They played thrice on grass, its 2-1 and c'mon lets be honest, thats hardly enough matches to consider who is really better. Dont get me wrong, I think Federer is a much better grass courter in the pure sense because of his game but Nadal has managed to find remarkable success on grass, albeit it being slowed down and bounced up a lot. But those combinations dont really matter, Federer played and won 6 wimbledons on the same grass. And on HCs, Nadal has a sizeable H2H advantage on outdoor hardcourts and the place where he stinks it up is indoors. You do realise that 4 of Fed's 5 HC wins are indoors, and the other one was from 2 sets down in Miami way back in 2005. So its not really indicative of "dominant" H2H on two other surfaces.

I am a huge Federer fan, I love the guy and his game and I dont really like Nadal's style of playing, but lets be reasonable. The Federer-Nadal H2H doesnt just show Rafa is light years ahead of Roger on clay, it also shows that Nadal's core game gives fits to Federer on basically any court. Except if you put a roof on top of their head.

I am not one of those people who says H2H means nothing but it doesnt mean as much as some trolls here make out. H2H between two great players who have had a long standing rivalry does mean something, its suggestive of the evolution of both those players and how the match-up issue is very important in tennis. Federer has basically struggled only against Nadal at his peak. Thats why people talk about it so much, because usually Federer is the "bete noir" of pretty much all guys. It is a pity that Roger didnt seem to be able to find answers to peak Rafa on a any court, but I think Rafa would anyday trade his H2H with Roger for his Slam (and title) collection...
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:19 AM   #573
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Federer has a very slender lead on HCs an Grass. They played thrice on grass, its 2-1 and c'mon lets be honest, thats hardly enough matches to consider who is really better. Dont get me wrong, I think Federer is a much better grass courter in the pure sense because of his game but Nadal has managed to find remarkable success on grass, albeit it being slowed down and bounced up a lot. But those combinations dont really matter, Federer played and won 6 wimbledons on the same grass. And on HCs, Nadal has a sizeable H2H advantage on outdoor hardcourts and the place where he stinks it up is indoors. You do realise that 4 of Fed's 5 HC wins are indoors, and the other one was from 2 sets down in Miami way back in 2005. So its not really indicative of "dominant" H2H on two other surfaces.

I am a huge Federer fan, I love the guy and his game and I dont really like Nadal's style of playing, but lets be reasonable. The Federer-Nadal H2H doesnt just show Rafa is light years ahead of Roger on clay, it also shows that Nadal's core game gives fits to Federer on basically any court. Except if you put a roof on top of their head.

I am not one of those people who says H2H means nothing but it doesnt mean as much as some trolls here make out. H2H between two great players who have had a long standing rivalry does mean something, its suggestive of the evolution of both those players and how the match-up issue is very important in tennis. Federer has basically struggled only against Nadal at his peak. Thats why people talk about it so much, because usually Federer is the "bete noir" of pretty much all guys. It is a pity that Roger didnt seem to be able to find answers to peak Rafa on a any court, but I think Rafa would anyday trade his H2H with Roger for his Slam (and title) collection...
Old news. No need to write a novel about it. Federer just doesn't match up well against Nadal. H2H means nothing at the end of the day, it is merely an interesting stat to look at when looking at a particular match.

If we go by a Rafatard's logic that H2H infers a better player, then does that mean Davydenko is a better player than Nadal? No. Is Borg equal to McEnroe? No. Are Safin, Hewitt and Roddick all better players than Sampras? No.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:50 AM   #574
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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Originally Posted by HKz View Post
Old news. No need to write a novel about it. Federer just doesn't match up well against Nadal. H2H means nothing at the end of the day, it is merely an interesting stat to look at when looking at a particular match.

If we go by a Rafatard's logic that H2H infers a better player, then does that mean Davydenko is a better player than Nadal? No. Is Borg equal to McEnroe? No. Are Safin, Hewitt and Roddick all better players than Sampras? No.
I was merely responding to another post from a Federer fan getting defensive over the H2H

And anyway, inspite of my novel, you dont seem to have gotten my point either.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:51 AM   #575
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

Even though I like Fed's game and respect for whatever he has achieved, I still think he got a little bit lucky with the competition he faced. He dominated guys whom Rafa can defeat playing right handed and serving at 80mph with 50% first serve.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:55 AM   #576
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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Originally Posted by RafaForever View Post
Even though I like Fed's game and respect for whatever he has achieved, I still think he got a little bit lucky with the competition he faced. He dominated guys whom Rafa can defeat playing right handed and serving at 80mph with 50% first serve.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:58 AM   #577
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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Even though I like Fed's game and respect for whatever he has achieved, I still think he got a little bit lucky with the competition he faced. He dominated guys whom Rafa can defeat playing right handed and serving at 80mph with 50% first serve.
Well then pity he has a losing record against one of those guys playing left handed, serving at 110mph and with 80% FS

Nadal today faces no tougher competition than Federer did in his prime. Of course this is the noughties not the 80s, and its not the Golden Era and the competition isnt as tight. But they are all out there, some very good players and trying their best to win.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:07 AM   #578
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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1/2011 ATP Doha (QAT)6-3 6-2: No justification needed. Rafa was bageled in the previous match. Even haters could see it.

1/2010 ATP Doha (QAT)0-6 7-6(8) 6-4: Ok he lost.

2009 ATP London (GBR)6-1 7-6(4): He lost to everybody.

2008 ATP Paris (FRA)6-1 ret.: Last match of the season.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:11 AM   #579
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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Originally Posted by RafaForever View Post
Even though I like Fed's game and respect for whatever he has achieved, I still think he got a little bit lucky with the competition he faced. He dominated guys whom Rafa can defeat playing right handed and serving at 80mph with 50% first serve.
Hewitt?
Youzhny?
Berdych?
Blake?
Nalbandian?
Davydenko?
Djokovic?

Aside from Djokovic/Davydenko, they all have had winning H2H records against Nadal at one point at least prior to 2008. The latter 2 are more about after 2008. Don't give me that shit. You can make all the reasoning/excuses you want, but it wasn't until the end of Federer's true prime years that Nadal started winning anything meaningful outside of clay, so what does that mean? You're claiming that the competition was shit during Federer's domination which must infer that the competition got better after this period, which we can agree is 2007, yet that is the same period where Nadal started being the most dominant player. Can you be any more hypocritical or do you have another reason to add into the mix?

Please stop making yourself look like a fool and give anti-Rafatards more ammo against illogical Rafatards making comments like you just made.
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Last edited by HKz : 12-29-2011 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:17 AM   #580
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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Well then pity he has a losing record against one of those guys playing left handed, serving at 110mph and with 80% FS

Nadal today faces no tougher competition than Federer did in his prime. Of course this is the noughties not the 80s, and its not the Golden Era and the competition isnt as tight. But they are all out there, some very good players and trying their best to win.
Well i feel he does. I think a teenage Nadal, Roddick, safin, hewitt dont make the cut. David is/was good but not consistent enough like todays players. Um cant think of more competitors...please quote some.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:20 AM   #581
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

HKz dude dont feel offended but i dont read your posts. Always too much hostility and hatred. Try learning making your point with decency. And yes your backhand blows.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:21 AM   #582
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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HKz dude dont feel offended but i dont read your posts. Always too much hostility and hatred. Try learning making your point with decency. And yes your backhand blows.
Another clueless and hypocritically hostile post by another random Rafatard. What else is new on MTF?

Instead of trying to use logic when I give him some wood to burn, this clown tries to be an even bigger idiot, completely avoids my post and tries to deflect with a tardish post.

From just a few weeks of being in this forum, you suddenly know how I post? I sense a true multi. What was your other account bro?
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:25 AM   #583
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

^^ People dont need weeks to judge. I read your posts in other threads and observed the trend. Btw i have said this many times and I say it again, I am not a Rafatard.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:26 AM   #584
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

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^^ People dont need weeks to judge. I read your posts in other threads and observed the trend. Btw i have said this many times and I say it again, I am not a Rafatard.
Okay bro, keep thinking that. Please post more illogical comments. Just give up your previous account name, and this will be swift. Please avoid more logical posts and attempt to use personal insult when you can't logically comment back.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:28 AM   #585
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Default Re: The Endless Federer-Nadal Debates

And i never said it was a cake walk for Fed. He is definitely the current GOAT. But there is some luck definitely involved there by way of a relatively easier competition than it is today.
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