Endless Federer-Nadal debates - Page 31 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

View Poll Results: How will it look?

Nadal more than 15 matches ahead. 96 38.10%
Nadal 13-14 matches ahead. 25 9.92%
Nadal 11-12 matches ahead. 19 7.54%
Nadal 9-10 matches ahead. 19 7.54%
Nadal 7-8 matches ahead. 20 7.94%
Nadal 5-6 matches ahead. 18 7.14%
Nadal 3-4 matches ahead. 5 1.98%
Nadal 1-2 matches ahead. 1 0.40%
Equal 4 1.59%
Federer ahead 45 17.86%
Voters: 252. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

Old 01-15-2011, 08:39 PM   #451
country flag barbadosan
Registered User
 
barbadosan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Barbados - land of sand, sea, sun & sex
Posts: 6,784
barbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley76 View Post
this is an example of what i am talking about. he would seem as if he is complimenting rafa and saying how good he is but the beginning of the sentence negates what follows. he is telling everyone that there are people out there who think rafa is rubbish and that they do not respect his game.

he was not defending rafa in his statement.he was simply planting the seed of the negative thought and letting it settle in people's minds(much like lawyers do with juries). what people is he talking about? this was when the rafa bandwagon was in full swing, he had been beaten a few times by him and most journalist and fans were going on about how good this kid is and were amazed at how he was beating fed.

the last part is even worse. instead of saying how good he is which compliments his game now. he said can be which was kind of a subtle dig at rafa. suggesting that he is not good yet. this when the kid was already 3/4:1 up on him in their HtoH.

this is an example of him damning rafa with faint praise. keeping him subordinate to him where he thinks he belongs. he is good and very subtle so you won't see it even if you are a non-fan and especially if you are a fan.
oh for Pete's sake, stop with this foolishness already. It may shock you but I conveyed the gist of what Federer said.. did he say "can be" or "could be" or "might be", I can't remember since I don't feel the need to quote anyone verbatim after 5 flipping years, so if you want to nitpick your way to glory on that, be my guest.

And you might - or is that "should", check your facts first before flinging crap in the air and hoping it will stick. At the time Rog said it, they had met ONE SINGLE TIME, which Nadal won. Their next meeting would be at Miami 2005, which Fed won, so I dunno where you get off with flinging around statments like the kid was already 3/4:1 up on him. Check your darned facts since apparently you only started following tennis yesterday.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterclass View Post
This is men's tennis, not the WTA. (The serve) - It's supposed to be a weapon, not a garden party introduction.

Respectfully,
masterclass
___________________________

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning." - Richard Cook
barbadosan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 01-15-2011, 08:40 PM   #452
country flag solowyn
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,655
solowyn has a reputation beyond reputesolowyn has a reputation beyond reputesolowyn has a reputation beyond reputesolowyn has a reputation beyond reputesolowyn has a reputation beyond reputesolowyn has a reputation beyond reputesolowyn has a reputation beyond reputesolowyn has a reputation beyond reputesolowyn has a reputation beyond reputesolowyn has a reputation beyond reputesolowyn has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by oranges View Post
I've got the commentator gig here:

shelley is clearly not happy about her posts being picked apart point by point, blasts a mindless attempt at a winner Korolev would be proud of. People in the stands run for cover.
She should get a warning for time wasting, still stuck on page 7.
solowyn is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 08:45 PM   #453
country flag barbadosan
Registered User
 
barbadosan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Barbados - land of sand, sea, sun & sex
Posts: 6,784
barbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond reputebarbadosan has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by solowyn View Post
She should get a warning for time wasting, still stuck on page 7.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by masterclass View Post
This is men's tennis, not the WTA. (The serve) - It's supposed to be a weapon, not a garden party introduction.

Respectfully,
masterclass
___________________________

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning." - Richard Cook
barbadosan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 08:46 PM   #454
country flag bokehlicious
♥ eve ♥
 
bokehlicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 39,632
bokehlicious has a reputation beyond reputebokehlicious has a reputation beyond reputebokehlicious has a reputation beyond reputebokehlicious has a reputation beyond reputebokehlicious has a reputation beyond reputebokehlicious has a reputation beyond reputebokehlicious has a reputation beyond reputebokehlicious has a reputation beyond reputebokehlicious has a reputation beyond reputebokehlicious has a reputation beyond reputebokehlicious has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

This thread is full of Rafatards bullshit and you have no CD, Everko, Topspindoctor or rafa_slam_king... can't wait to see where this thread is going to as soon as they take on it
__________________
Proud Supporter of Federer & Djokovic
bokehlicious is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 08:49 PM   #455
country flag l_mac
I DON'T LIKE DJOKOVIC
 
l_mac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 41,183
l_mac has a reputation beyond reputel_mac has a reputation beyond reputel_mac has a reputation beyond reputel_mac has a reputation beyond reputel_mac has a reputation beyond reputel_mac has a reputation beyond reputel_mac has a reputation beyond reputel_mac has a reputation beyond reputel_mac has a reputation beyond reputel_mac has a reputation beyond reputel_mac has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley76 View Post
in 2004 rafa already had a lot of buzz on him because of his amazing defeat of albert costa(reigning french open champion) in monte carlo 2003, his amazing play while losing to leyton hewitt in aus open in 2004 and his outstanding defeat of the reigning number one player in miami 2004. by 2005, there was no one who "didn't realise" what a good player he was or "how good he can be". since by this time his bandwagon was actually speeding along the track and veering out of control. people were instead saying how great he will be .
l_mac is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 08:54 PM   #456
country flag Singularity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,789
Singularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley76 View Post
WOW i picked your post apart and carefully explained, again, to you what i was saying and you still return with the misinterpretation that is in your head.

i give up. i don't know how else to explain it to you. i really don't.
Probably because you don't actually understand what I'm saying, even though it's incredibly simple.

Quote:
What i said has nothing to do with federer playing badly as federer did NOT SAY he lost because he played badly. please re-read the article in the OP.

He said " sometimes i lose because the opponent played better than me." my posts have been about this "sometimes". in my opinion, federer is implying that there are other reasons or excuses for his other losses. you know the ones that are not covered by this "sometimes." these are the discredited players i'm talking about.
Yes, I know that. I guess I have to spell everything out to you, using as simple terms as possible:

1.) Federer said he sometimes loses simply because his opponent plays well, i.e plays at a level above Federer's 'normal' level.
2.) This implies that at other times he loses because he plays below his normal level, i.e plays badly: for example when he doesn't make enough first serves or makes too many errors with his forehand.

Conclusion: Federer is claiming (or implying) that sometimes he has lost because he has played badly.

And the question I've asked several times, which you haven't yet answered, is what's wrong with that? What's wrong with admitting that you're sometimes below your best (for whatever reason) and sometimes lose as a result?

Quote:
i then pointed out the double standars which would allow people like you to defend such choice of words when MTFers don't seem to like it when players try to make excuses for their loss. they simply just want them to say the other guy played better than me and move on. Not only "SOMETIMES"but "ALL" the time.
In a technical sense, a player always loses because his opponent played better. That's why he lost! The question is why were they the better player, and Federer is indicating that at least sometimes this is because the other player is below par. That's what the "sometimes" indicates.

From that it doesn't follow that the reason was injury. In any case, MTFers object to Nadal's injury 'excuses' because they believe they're fake, and attempts to 'justify' Nadal's poor form. They don't deny that Nadal sometimes is in poor form.

Quote:
By the way, saying you lost because you played badly is discrediting the other player. ask serena, she has come into a lot of hate for saying exactly this. this is because you are saying the other guy didn't really win because he played really good or better than you instead he only won because you were crap. if you beat someone would you want them to say it was because they played badly why you won?
If it's true then it's just a fact you have to live with, or you're only deluding yourself. Note that Federer never singled out any specific players, though, and his whole point was to emphasize those times when his opponent plays well, and the press don't pick up on it.
Singularity is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 09:00 PM   #457
country flag habibko
Registered User
 
habibko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 19,872
habibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by l_mac View Post
I don't think I would class it a strong friendship, but I do think it's more than just being civil to each other. They seem to genuinely get on well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by l_mac View Post
On court.
you are a Fedal now?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Federer View Post
If I can help the game of tennis with the image or with making it more popular, that’s enough for me really. I want to leave the game better off than when I came into this great game
habibko is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 09:08 PM   #458
country flag Commander Data
Registered User
 
Commander Data's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: XR-17
Posts: 10,053
Commander Data has a reputation beyond reputeCommander Data has a reputation beyond reputeCommander Data has a reputation beyond reputeCommander Data has a reputation beyond reputeCommander Data has a reputation beyond reputeCommander Data has a reputation beyond reputeCommander Data has a reputation beyond reputeCommander Data has a reputation beyond reputeCommander Data has a reputation beyond reputeCommander Data has a reputation beyond reputeCommander Data has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by habibko View Post
you are a Fedal now?
She has put Djokovic in her sig so she is clearly being ironic.
__________________
"You cannot be a number one in the world and be a good loser"

- Magnus Carlsen
Commander Data is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 09:11 PM   #459
country flag fast_clay
Registered User
 
fast_clay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ₫ṿﻁᶫỉᾔﺍᶏ
Posts: 15,730
fast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
we really do need a mid year ACC masters tournament, imo
i've always argued for a Masters Series ACC on grass just after wimbledon... and one around miami and IW...

i've always seen the acc calendar this way
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelvenluvJo View Post
why are you so seriously
fast_clay is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 09:27 PM   #460
country flag shelley76
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 187
shelley76 has a reputation beyond reputeshelley76 has a reputation beyond reputeshelley76 has a reputation beyond reputeshelley76 has a reputation beyond reputeshelley76 has a reputation beyond reputeshelley76 has a reputation beyond reputeshelley76 has a reputation beyond reputeshelley76 has a reputation beyond reputeshelley76 has a reputation beyond reputeshelley76 has a reputation beyond reputeshelley76 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTwEeZi View Post
good posting Shelley dont let these clowns get to you
thank you? i am actually ROTFLMAO at how riduculous these fed fans are.

i've gone from being a simple poster, stating their honest opinion, to being a rafaturd, a nadal tard and finally a troll. i'm now being recommended for something called ACC.

why? because from the article in the OP, I took objection to the great one's obviously condescending use of the word sometimes in one of his statements and then committed the cardinal sin of saying i didn't like him while declaring i was a rafa fan .

hence started the campaign of hate and intimidation against me. if they knew me they'd know i don't do intimidated so they were not actually chasing me off with my head bent in shame and dejection.

if i have an opinion i will state it. if i am a fan of someone i will proudly say so. none of you own this board!

one thing i have come to realise though...federer fans take their cue on how to behave from him. they are obnoxious, superior, condescending and arrogant. they have learnt from their master well. as a result i have come to regard them the same way i regard him- with disdain

sorry for the long post. just wanted to say thanks for the support.
shelley76 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 09:34 PM   #461
country flag habibko
Registered User
 
habibko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 19,872
habibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

so you are taking your cue on how to behave from Nadal shelley76?

I'm sure Rafa is proud of you.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Federer View Post
If I can help the game of tennis with the image or with making it more popular, that’s enough for me really. I want to leave the game better off than when I came into this great game
habibko is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 09:48 PM   #462
country flag Apemant
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,444
Apemant has a reputation beyond reputeApemant has a reputation beyond reputeApemant has a reputation beyond reputeApemant has a reputation beyond reputeApemant has a reputation beyond reputeApemant has a reputation beyond reputeApemant has a reputation beyond reputeApemant has a reputation beyond reputeApemant has a reputation beyond reputeApemant has a reputation beyond reputeApemant has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
In a technical sense, a player always loses because his opponent played better. That's why he lost!
Actually, in a technical sense, even THAT is not true, because of the ad-scoring and all this stuff with sets/games.

It's a ludicrous idea that someone 'played better' only because he played, say, 2 points 'better'. And even that could in theory be a DF or an ace. For the remainder of the match, the losing player could've been clearly better, while the other one could play a lot worse but drag himself somehow, to the deciding tiebreak, where he can string 2 lucky points and win.

To me, it is an obvious bullshit to call that player 'better on the day' - simply because he won. People need to drop that strange notion that the better player ALWAYS wins. It's simply not true. Life isn't always fair, in fact, I'd say it's unfair more often than not. Lucky people prefer to think that 'they make their own luck' - which is true TO SOME EXTENT, but not all the way. Not even close to all the way.
__________________
...
Apemant is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 10:01 PM   #463
country flag Singularity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,789
Singularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond reputeSingularity has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apemant View Post
Actually, in a technical sense, even THAT is not true, because of the ad-scoring and all this stuff with sets/games.

It's a ludicrous idea that someone 'played better' only because he played, say, 2 points 'better'. And even that could in theory be a DF or an ace. For the remainder of the match, the losing player could've been clearly better, while the other one could play a lot worse but drag himself somehow, to the deciding tiebreak, where he can string 2 lucky points and win.

To me, it is an obvious bullshit to call that player 'better on the day' - simply because he won. People need to drop that strange notion that the better player ALWAYS wins. It's simply not true. Life isn't always fair, in fact, I'd say it's unfair more often than not. Lucky people prefer to think that 'they make their own luck' - which is true TO SOME EXTENT, but not all the way. Not even close to all the way.
I agree with that actually, I just didn't want to over-complicate things. Though in some sense, I think we have to believe that the outcome of even a couple of points means something, otherwise the whole system seems rather arbitrary in the first place.
Singularity is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 10:09 PM   #464
country flag junkdelux
Registered User
 
junkdelux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 47
junkdelux has a reputation beyond reputejunkdelux has a reputation beyond reputejunkdelux has a reputation beyond reputejunkdelux has a reputation beyond reputejunkdelux has a reputation beyond reputejunkdelux has a reputation beyond reputejunkdelux has a reputation beyond reputejunkdelux has a reputation beyond reputejunkdelux has a reputation beyond reputejunkdelux has a reputation beyond reputejunkdelux has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

I thought this was going to be a 9 page discussion of Fedal! Dammit.
junkdelux is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 10:09 PM   #465
country flag kinski76
Humor is reason gone mad
 
kinski76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 37
Posts: 741
kinski76 has a reputation beyond reputekinski76 has a reputation beyond reputekinski76 has a reputation beyond reputekinski76 has a reputation beyond reputekinski76 has a reputation beyond reputekinski76 has a reputation beyond reputekinski76 has a reputation beyond reputekinski76 has a reputation beyond reputekinski76 has a reputation beyond reputekinski76 has a reputation beyond reputekinski76 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rivalry with Nadal has forged stronger friendship, says Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelley76 View Post
this is an example of what i am talking about. he would seem as if he is complimenting rafa and saying how good he is but the beginning of the sentence negates what follows. he is telling everyone that there are people out there who think rafa is rubbish and that they do not respect his game.

he was not defending rafa in his statement.he was simply planting the seed of the negative thought and letting it settle in people's minds(much like lawyers do with juries). what people is he talking about? this was when the rafa bandwagon was in full swing, he had been beaten a few times by him and most journalist and fans were going on about how good this kid is and were amazed at how he was beating fed.

the last part is even worse. instead of saying how good he is which compliments his game now. he said can be which was kind of a subtle dig at rafa. suggesting that he is not good yet. this when the kid was already 3/4:1 up on him in their HtoH.

this is an example of him damning rafa with faint praise. keeping him subordinate to him where he thinks he belongs. he is good and very subtle so you won't see it even if you are a non-fan and especially if you are a fan.
Such a sly devil, this Federer. Such a loss to the legal profession as well.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger-happy mod
hi,

I deleted your avatar because it was extremely inappropriate and not appreciated.
Why did it take 300 years to give the giant tortoise a scientific name?




kinski76 is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios