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Old 05-02-2012, 11:17 PM   #31
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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USSR was a rich country.
Sure
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:10 AM   #32
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

So rich that thousands risked their lives escaping the "socialist paradise".
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:49 AM   #33
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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So rich that thousands risked their lives escaping the "socialist paradise".
soviet russia certainly wasn't rich by any modern (and western?) world stretch and it was far from being a paradise either (for one thing the limited freedom its citizens had left a lot to wish for) but... it was economically safe for the average joe. people had their jobs and had the basic means to sustain themselves. that's something that changed drammatically when boris yeltsin and his western-backed capitalist style came to power in the nineties. millions of russians fell into poverty and the GDP plumetted while some filthy gangsters, local and outsiders, managed to become billionaires at the expense of the poverty of a whole nation. for years -even to this day- thousands of russian women went to the west to work as prostitutes just because they didn't have any type of labour opportunities back home.

i'm sure russians at the time would have preferred to keep their "socialist paradise" alive instead of having no food on their plates in yeltsin's capitalist-oriented russia.

things have been getting better for the russians lately, though. as corrupt and shady as putin might be, he's still miles better than boris -and most russians know that.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:52 AM   #34
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Old 05-03-2012, 02:55 AM   #35
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Politics has its own language. Here are some commonly used terms and their definitions:


"Progress" Movement towards a particular ideology, whether it works or not.

"Liberation" Forcing "progress" on an entity.

"Moral" The party's policies.

"Immoral" The opposition's policies.

"The people" Members of the party.

"Failure" Whatever the opposition does.

"Corruption" Any activity the opposition is involved in.

"Imperialist" Foreign country with a different ideology.


And there are loads more...
LOL
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:58 AM   #36
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

With all due respect, I don't think the Nordic countries can be used as a comparison. They don't face 1/100th of the challenges countries like India and China face.

Here's what the lefties are thinking: "OMG some people in India are actually breaking the shackles and doing well. Let's start attacking them about the gap between them and the poor of their country."

The only way to uplift people is to free them and give them opportunity. Socialism wants the state to run all enterprise and force people into dependence on the inefficient and corrupt state machinery. Screw that.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:02 AM   #37
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
soviet russia certainly wasn't rich by any modern (and western?) world stretch and it was far from being a paradise either (for one thing the limited fredom its citizens had left a lot to wish for) but... it was economically safe. people had their jobs and had the basic means to sustain themselves. that's something that changed drammatically when boris yeltsin and his western-backed capitalist style came to power in the nineties. millions of russians fell into poverty and the GDP plumetted while some filthy gangsters, local and outsiders, managed to become billionaires at the expense of the poverty of a whole nation. for years -even to this day- thousands of russian women went to the west to work as prostitutes just because they didn't have any type of labour opportunities back home.

i'm sure russians at the time would have preferred to keep their "socialist paradise" alive instead of having no food on their plates in yeltsin's capitalist-oriented russia.

things have been getting better for the russians lately, though. as corrupt and shady as putin might be, he's still miles better than boris -and most russians know that.
The whole system was flawed from the start. People had secure jobs and the means to sustain themselves, that's true. However the whole "communist equality" policy was doomed from the start and only bred corruption and discontent. Imperial Russia would be far better off following the capitalist ways after the revolution, it was quite unfortunate that bolshevik thugs pounced on the opportunity to seize power and reduced a great empire to ashes playing on people's vulnerabilities after the first war. Empowering thugs, peasants, drunks and criminals and "redistributing wealth" (aka robbing the hard working middle class) was ultimately wrong and the system was rotten from the start.

In regards to Putin, he is a better president simply because of his harsh and unforgiving international policies, unlike that fat sloth Yeltsin. Yanks and their Euro ass kissers surely hate him because despite some public discontent, he actually has guts to persue policies that are beneficial to his country alone and to stymie yank instigated conflicts in 3rd world countries like Syria in an effort to expand their influence.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:09 AM   #38
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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The great French philosopher Jean-Claude Michéa noticed the left-wing mistake or lie, when they call the capitalist system conservative. Capitalists hate local traditions and nations. It's the party of movement and progress aiming at a man without cultural background and cultural ties. The founding fathers of liberalism (Smith, Ricardo, Tocqueville, etc.) were considered leftwingers in them days. The founding fathers of communism (Marx & Engels) considered themselves neither ... nor ... And in recent years, it's rather telling that leaders of two influential international institutions were - at the same time - two French "socialists" (DSK at the IMF and Pascal Lamy at WTO but now DSK has other occupations ). They were actually typical leftwinger but no socialists.
i don't think it's fair to say that "capitalists hate local traditions and nations". they just don't normally consider them in their so called technical analysis and choose to focus on the decisions and freedom of the individual in particular. i'd say that in modern times this is a typical behaviour of all right wingers -not just the purely capitalist ones, or libertarians as some call them in the USA- as opposed to left leaning blokes who tend to center their analysis on society in general.

then again, i do agree with your main idea but that depends on what we understand for 'capitalist system'. in its pure form, and much like communism, capitalism has never truly existed (maybe with the exception of medieval iceland being a notorious case of study). what we have today is a system that badly approaches to it and fails when we consider the size of the state and all of its tools to run the economy. in most cases, be it in europe or the USA (but more in the USA), the rich end up more protected than the poor. if that's what we understand today for "capitalism system", then it is evidently an idea extracted of the right wing agenda.

as for libertarians (or semi-pure capitalists, whichever term you like best), i mostly see them as clueless. i don't think they fully grasp the complexities of the world's markets and how badly things would be if some of their ideas were implemented. i wouldn't tag them as right wingers, though.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:09 AM   #39
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Soviet was a Success story and the Yanks got riled because of that. For the first time they saw somebody standing upto them. Soviet rattled the Americans. And hence they started working overtime just to bring Soviet down and got obsessed with it. They sowed the seeds of the Modern Islamic Terrorism to get even with the Soviets.

All the Osamas and the Pakistani terrorism have their roots in Yanks supporting them to get even with the Soviets.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:16 AM   #40
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Success story Man, are you just trolling for fun or what?
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“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:22 AM   #41
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Just because bunch of people running away from the USSR doesn't mean that the system was a failure. There were just too many forces working against them. The Western Propoganda, the Islamic nations. In the end it showed the World a new system and it stood up for a long time. I would appreciate that anyday.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:56 AM   #42
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

There's no country in the world where communism wasn't a failure, and if you appreciate it that much, you can always move to North Korea... though you won't be posting much form there
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“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

I was talking about Communism and Soviet. How has North Korea come into the picture. And anyways if North Korea shows enough Clout Financially,Culturally or in Sporting Arena i would appreciate that also. Maybe i could move in North Korea also. As it was said by W.H Somebody. The World is an Open Place.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:50 PM   #44
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

I'm not sure you have any idea what you're talking about. That's ok though
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“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:15 PM   #45
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Soviet was a Success story and the Yanks got riled because of that. For the first time they saw somebody standing upto them. Soviet rattled the Americans. And hence they started working overtime just to bring Soviet down and got obsessed with it. They sowed the seeds of the Modern Islamic Terrorism to get even with the Soviets.

All the Osamas and the Pakistani terrorism have their roots in Yanks supporting them to get even with the Soviets.
Are you really from France?

I've got to see what the propaganda machine has been doing to you guys over there.
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