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Old 05-02-2012, 05:52 AM   #16
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Socialism did work for Countries like the USSR. For a long while they stood up to the monopolies of the United States. And gave them a good answer.

As for Political philosophies,I for one cant understand the obsession of teaching others what works for you.

Be it Democracy,Socialism or anything else. Every Country and its culture is unique and people of the country themselves have to find what works best for them. Free Liberal Democracy worked for United States and some countries in the Western World. And then they started teaching the world that their Method of Governance is the Best.

And for this reason i would support Socialism because Atleast USSR didnt preach as loudly and in a Self Righteous Way that Socialism was the Best.

As for Socialism in India, it really was a disaster. Just after Independence people of India just were happy that they got their freedom after a long time. Hence the Government exploited that feeling by bringing absolutely minimal changes and reforms in the name of socialism for a long long time. To think of it, The reforms came into the 90s which was almost 50 years after independence is just criminal.

They are many Indian states with high level of intellectual potential but are really stagnant in more ways than one. Kerala and Bengal are amongst them.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:21 AM   #17
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
i don't know much at all about indian politics but here's a pretty interesting article about the search for economic development of india's educated youth.



http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?278704
Time for a revolution!
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Originally Posted by Sri View Post
Is there any word / phrase that the far right has taken over? I will need to campaign for that as well!
moral
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

If socialism sucks, then the stench of capitalism has to be described as pungent.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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moral
Nation
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post
Socialism did work for Countries like the USSR.



Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
when i was studying business administration and economics, i leaned heavily towards many libertarian principles. then over the years i fortunately learned to see thru all the bullshit and realize that the world is a lot more complex than many ideological ideas disguised as rational conclusions of a technical analysis.
Good to see you back.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Nation
Right on man.

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Old 05-02-2012, 03:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Ron Paul has proven socialists can never own words like "revolution" and "progressive".
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:12 PM   #24
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sri View Post
There you go, you have a pro left tilt so you accuse me of having a pro right tilt. :-(

Here are some facts about India:

1. Socialism is in the constitution

2. All govt's since independence have been populist

3. Some reforms came in the early 90's and very few in the early naught'ies

4. Since 2004 we have got an even more socialist / populist govt at various states and the center

The right does try and push for "reform" (mostly economic). It always fails.

The right in India is pretty stupid and low in caliber.

The left holds on to power and loots the country.

Both the right and left pretend to be the cause of whatever development that has happened in the past two decades.
I'm not accusing you of having a pro-right tilt.

I'm simply saying that socialism is just a word - just because it's in your constitution, it doesn't mean that that is actually the policies that are being followed. There are policies that are considered socialist. Your Government may be socialist in name, but actually following fairly right wing economic policies. Again, they may be described as populist, but what "populist" policies are they actually doing? As far as I know India has embraced capitalism with great enthusiasm and the gap between rich and poor remains a huge gulf - it doesn't seem very socialist to me, whatever the constitution may say.
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:45 PM   #25
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Politics has its own language. Here are some commonly used terms and their definitions:


"Progress" Movement towards a particular ideology, whether it works or not.

"Liberation" Forcing "progress" on an entity.

"Moral" The party's policies.

"Immoral" The opposition's policies.

"The people" Members of the party.

"Failure" Whatever the opposition does.

"Corruption" Any activity the opposition is involved in.

"Imperialist" Foreign country with a different ideology.


And there are loads more...
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Originally Posted by Harmless View Post
Right on man.

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Old 05-02-2012, 05:56 PM   #27
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

USSR was a rich country. They were pioneers in Space technology and damn good in Sports. Dont tell me that they doped a lot. As if the United States Athletes don't dope at all.


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Old 05-02-2012, 08:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
Socialism is half a step away from communism.
According to you, Norway, Canada and Israel, to give just a few examples, are only a step removed from communism, since the social services of the first two were clearly inspired by socialism, while the third was in fact created by a socialist party (Ben Gurion, Golda Meir, Moshe Dayan... according to you, they were all semi-Communists). Not to forget that, in that case, NATO was created by semi-Communists, since both Clement Atlee and his Foreing Secretary Ernst Bevin were hard-core Labour. If only Stalin had known!!

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Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post
Socialism did work for Countries like the USSR.
I still don't get why some people think the USSR was socialist. Both posters above seem to not be able to tell the difference between socialism and communism. I know both terms are used as almost synonymous by some people, especially in the US, but I've always found that to be a good example of just how parrochial the US is in so many ways. (Another good example is how they use the word "liberal", they seem to think it is somehow related with the left, while in most of the world it is still used in its original meaning, as someone who defends freewheeling capitalism!!).

Wonder if mainstream Americans are ever aware that the Veterans Administration is often mentioned as a clear example of a socialized health care system. Not to speak of most of the US's social network or other highly succesful institutions harking back to New Deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sri View Post
I find it hard to respect the intelligence of anybody over 30 who leans to the left.
What really gets to me is how anybody over 30 can fail to grasp that the health care and educational opportunities that countries like the Scandinavian ones or the Netherlands grant their own citizens are pretty close to the best other nations could reasonably hope to get for their own people. Oh, I was forgetting, you think all their hospitals and public schools are a symptom of communism, how clumsy of me.

By the way, the sorry state of the world economy right now makes a very powerful case for the dismal failure of the neoliberal, unbriddled capitalist model, or doesn't it?
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:19 PM   #29
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

While I certainly dislike communism, some aspects of the social democratic model that we have in the Nordic Countries are such that I would hope many other countries would have as well... Naturally there are many things that we do poorly as well. But public education, free university-level education and universal healthcare are good things. Now, as far as Finland goes, I think we've gone too far with taxation and that a smaller government could handle things more cheaply (still not compromising from the most important things).

So in Finland, I'm on the right but probably somewhere else might be on the left .
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:43 PM   #30
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

No "social" programme can work if they're "progressive". It can only work if based on traditions and implemented within the framework of the nation and people's sovereignty. There can't be any global socialism. Those Trotskyists who argue in favour of mass immigration and globalism, and (and as far as Europe is concerned) in favour of "another EU" (while the EU cannot be any different than what it IS) are the useful idiots/agents of the system. (love that)

The great French philosopher Jean-Claude Michéa noticed the left-wing mistake or lie, when they call the capitalist system conservative. Capitalists hate local traditions and nations. It's the party of movement and progress aiming at a man without cultural background and cultural ties. The founding fathers of liberalism (Smith, Ricardo, Tocqueville, etc.) were considered leftwingers in them days. The founding fathers of communism (Marx & Engels) considered themselves neither ... nor ... And in recent years, it's rather telling that leaders of two influential international institutions were - at the same time - two French "socialists" (DSK at the IMF and Pascal Lamy at WTO but now DSK has other occupations ). They were actually typical leftwinger but no socialists.

Also socialists should drop their dreams of a classless society and rather call for a class collaboration in the form of employee share ownership, as promoted by General de Gaulle (rejected by so-called "socialists" ... of course).
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