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Old 04-24-2012, 12:35 AM   #31
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
No-one. Lol @ clowns thinking Del-Shitro stands a chance against Nadal on clay (or any surface)
This from a guy who openly admitted here on MTF that he had to drink alcohol so he can watch MC final.You think butt picker can walk on water?Oh,it's gonna hurt you so bad.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:36 AM   #32
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

I forgot about Isner, well odds are not that great that he will even reach QF. He seems to have fitness problems in slams, takes long time to recover from long matches and he needs to play long matches quite often.

Some people really dont think Murray can do damage but I think he can beat both Djokovic and Federer on clay, but he would need to do something spectacular against Rafa. I just wonder if there wont come a day when Rafa just wont be able to hang in there grinding with a player like Murray/Ferrer because he is not 100% fit, maybe from a long claycourt season and crawling above the age of 26?
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:38 AM   #33
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

No one.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:40 AM   #34
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post
I forgot about Isner, well odds are not that great that he will even reach QF. He seems to have fitness problems in slams, takes long time to recover from long matches and he needs to play long matches quite often.
Indeed, there are questions over his ability to the late rounds, and even more questions about his ability to get there without expending too much energy/getting drawn into long matches against lower ranked players. His serve is an incredible weapon, had never seen anything like that (I mean, Karlovic's first serve is far better, but I mean the serve as a whole, factoring in 1st serve %, second serve, clutch serving...).

But if that serve is working, he can beat anyone. I believe he and Del Potro are the two guys none of the top 4 seeds will want in their quarter.

Quote:
Some people really dont think Murray can do damage but I think he can beat both Djokovic and Federer on clay, but he would need to do something spectacular against Rafa. I just wonder if there wont come a day when Rafa just wont be able to hang in there grinding with a player like Murray/Ferrer because he is not 100% fit, maybe from a long claycourt season and crawling above the age of 26?
Clay is Murray's worse surface. Unless he has a joke draw like last year's (Troicki, Chela and co.) he probably will not make it to the semis this time around.

I honestly can't see Murray or Ferrer even taking a set off Rafa. Outgrinding Rafa on clay sounds like mission impossible to me. You need weapons, you need to make things happen yourself to have a chance.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:46 AM   #35
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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Originally Posted by Clay Death View Post
of course i would not be happy with him general topspin doc.

there is no room for softness. not in sparta.

no room for complacency.


i could start to feel better after 2 more french opens and at least this next wimbledon.

there is some chance that can i call the dogs off after that.

until then, there is no rest, no retreat, and no surrender.
cheers.
Well,you have nothing to worry than.After epic victory against Nole who played the best match of his life and yet got demolished buy the one that play beautiful and attacking game,it's clear that butt picking,trophy chewing master of beauty will take all 3 remaining slams.It's a sure thing.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:49 AM   #36
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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Originally Posted by nick the greek View Post
This from a guy who openly admitted here on MTF that he had to drink alcohol so he can watch MC final.You think butt picker can walk on water?Oh,it's gonna hurt you so bad.
So what? Djokovic beat Nadal many times recently, so it's no surprise I was nervous before this match. You are seriously delusional if you think anyone but Djokovic is not a free walkover for Nadal on clay at this point. You can have your illusions that a brainless ballbasher like Del Potro can beat Nadal, but I wouldn't put cash on that to be honest
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:51 AM   #37
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post

Clay is Murray's worse surface. Unless he has a joke draw like last year's (Troicki, Chela and co.) he probably will not make it to the semis this time around.

I honestly can't see Murray or Ferrer even taking a set off Rafa. Outgrinding Rafa on clay sounds like mission impossible to me. You need weapons, you need to make things happen yourself to have a chance.
I do agree with you on paper, but Nadal cant keep doing this year after year. I mean playing 5 big claycourt tournaments with 2 weeks rest, age needs to catch up with him sooner or later. Outgrinding Murray/Ferrer when you are not fit for battle might be difficult for even Nadal.

I surely would think Murray/Ferrer got a better chanse than Almagro, because Almagro would choke even if Nadal is playing awful and is down 2-1 in sets and break down.

I have seen Nadal subdued several times in Madrid/Hamburg/Rome because of fatigue, but he usually recovers for RG. Now, I am just saying a day will come sooner than later when Nadal cant keep up with these crazy schedules .
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:52 AM   #38
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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Federer is obviously the biggest threat. Many of their clay matches have been close, and all it takes is a bad day in the office for Rafa. Yea, Rafa always has a great chance of winning on slow clay in particular, but it's far from a sure thing.

Next is Del Potro, followed by Isner, Murray, Ferrer and Dolgopolov. Gasquet and Berdych are also unpredictable on clay (a nice fast one in particular).

Any one of those guys *can* win, its just very tough to zone long enough to actually beat Rafa.
This is joke i hope.

Gasquet on clay against Rafa- No chance. That guy is average top 20, no serve, no power, not good ROS, no FH, no stamina - he has nothing to hurt Rafa

Dolgo- his game is fun to watch, but seriusly that guy is so inconsistent and his game on clay i don´t think is so dangerous to Rafa, with good deffense Dolgo will just slice-error his way to loose match

Ferrer- is solid top 10 player, one of best clay-courters, but how we can see from his matches at MC, Barca, or Rome in last years against Rafa, simply he has nothing to hurt him.

Guys like Murray and Isner here are overrated. Isner needs first to beat some good player on outdoor clay Master1000 or RG than we can see him as threat. Tsonga-Simon are not telling us so much- and DC format is great for Isner .1. he will be most likely tired already when facing some top 10 guy, because he will play tie-breaks and loose sets in earlier rounds in Madrid, Rome and RG.
2. even if not tired and his serve as major weapon, someone like Rafa can easy wear him down, his stamina is issue and always will be- and his movement is still limited.

Murray- way to passive, has great BH, ROS, 1st serve - but those things he can use on HC more than on clay, simply he lacks power from both wings to overpower Rafa, his deffense and movements are world-class but so are Rafa´s. He won´t beat him best of 5 never and best of 3, maybe at Madrid-which seems to be Rafa´s worst clay event-from those he is attending every season.

I still think Roger has some chance in form in Madrid and maybe at RG with those balls-howewer at RG Roger needs to win in straight sets or 4sets but quick. - longer the play - stamina advantage NAdal over old man, longer they play - Roger will probably choke and so on...

Than Delpo- how i mentioned in my first post here-he needs to be fitter and serve better than he did in DC in december and he got the game to blow Rafa from the court. It will be easir for him at best of 3 - so Madrid, Rome rather than RG, but still even RG is not out of question with good stamina-serve combo

Berdych- he has the game, but his record is so bad against Rafa, that i wonder if i can give him some chances, but on paper and overall when you see his game - he is up there with Delpo, Soderling, Big hitter that can beat anyone.
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:53 AM   #39
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

i think nick the greek is experimenting with mindless blind hate.

is that much blind hate for a top pro really healthy nick the greek?
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:54 AM   #40
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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Gasquet and Dolgopolov? I'd eat my hat if that happened. Gasquet has no power, no forehand, no serve...

Dolgopolov struggles to win games off Rafa on hard court, let alone three sets on clay. It's just a terrible match-up for Dolgo.

Murray and Ferrer? Check their clay head-to-head with Rafa, especially Ferrer's. Those guys have no weapons and they are not going to outgrind Rafa on clay, that's mission impossible.

To have a chance to beat Rafa, you need to have the weapons to hit him off the court, that's the only way. Trying to outgrind him on clay will achieve nothing.

Totally agree. Gasquet, Ferrer and Murray do not have a chance. Dolgopolov too actually, but if the stars align he may have a very small one.

The only ones I can see troubling him are Isner, Del Potro and Federer (but would probably choke if he is close to beating him), aside from Djokovic, of course. But in RG he'll be in the final for sure, those players may have a chance in Rome or Madrid (specially the last one).
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:58 AM   #41
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

Why is Dolgopolov mentioned in this thread? His game is matchup in heaven for Nadal and is not a consistent top player.

I would give oldies Davydenko and Nalbandian a much better chanse against Nadal than Dolgopolov (still not much of a chanse).
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Old 04-24-2012, 12:59 AM   #42
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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This from a guy who openly admitted here on MTF that he had to drink alcohol so he can watch MC final.You think butt picker can walk on water?Oh,it's gonna hurt you so bad.


so he had a drink. at least he is normal.

who doesnt sit down with a beer or a drink to enjoy their sporting events?

is it that hard to stay on the subject?

Last edited by Clay Death : 04-24-2012 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:01 AM   #43
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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I do agree with you on paper, but Nadal cant keep doing this year after year. I mean playing 5 big claycourt tournaments with 2 weeks rest, age needs to catch up with him sooner or later. Outgrinding Murray/Ferrer when you are not fit for battle might be difficult for even Nadal.

I surely would think Murray/Ferrer got a better chanse than Almagro, because Almagro would choke even if Nadal is playing awful and is down 2-1 in sets and break down.

I have seen Nadal subdued several times in Madrid/Hamburg/Rome because of fatigue, but he usually recovers for RG. Now, I am just saying a day will come sooner than later when Nadal cant keep up with these crazy schedules .
Nadal is no ordinary athlete, though. He's one of the greatest athletes in sport's history; he shows no signs of slowing down significantly and remains the second best player in the world 7 years after he came into the scene despite his gruelling style.

I really don't think this will be the year where the claycourt season schedule will take a toll on him. And besides, Ferrer is very overrated - he has never done anything at Slam level whatsoever, namely at Roland Garros. not to mention he's not exactly young anymore, he's likely to burn out/decline earlier than Rafa.

Murray could eventually do it (although I doubt it) but not this year, Rafa is still going strong. Unless Murray magically develops some consistent firepower off both wings, I'm afraid he's not beating Nadal in Paris.

And why are you even mentioning Almagro? I don't think anyone sees him as a threat at all. He's a good player, but his chances of even getting a chance to choke against Rafa are slim to none.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:01 AM   #44
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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Indeed, there are questions over his ability to the late rounds, and even more questions about his ability to get there without expending too much energy/getting drawn into long matches against lower ranked players. His serve is an incredible weapon, had never seen anything like that (I mean, Karlovic's first serve is far better, but I mean the serve as a whole, factoring in 1st serve %, second serve, clutch serving...).

But if that serve is working, he can beat anyone. I believe he and Del Potro are the two guys none of the top 4 seeds will want in their quarter.



Clay is Murray's worse surface. Unless he has a joke draw like last year's (Troicki, Chela and co.) he probably will not make it to the semis this time around.

I honestly can't see Murray or Ferrer even taking a set off Rafa. Outgrinding Rafa on clay sounds like mission impossible to me. You need weapons, you need to make things happen yourself to have a chance.

Agree about Murray and Ferrer. THey have no weapons and can´t outgrind Rafa. Also more likely neither Ferrer or Murray will make SF. - Ferrer simply can´t get past QF at RG and Murray´s SF last year was thanks to joke draw and pathetic choke from Troicki.

But Murray-Ferrer can wear down Rafa for next match- i would say something like Ferrer-Murray-Nole - QF-SF-F would be worst possible scenario for Rafa- not only for him for anyone - this simlar had Nole at AO when i was worried - he even had Hewitt in R4.

About Delpo- agree

About Isner- i still think he is overrated, his serve is huge, his FH is huge, he has more time on clay, but still until he can beat someone really good on clay-outdoor - Madrid, Rome or RG i don´t think he is such threat. Also that factor - stamina - he either will play long matches-loose sets in first 3 rounds or even relatively fresh he can be wear down in that particular match against RAfa say in 4R. Also last year RAfa was probably mentally down going to RG and wasn´t expecting such match from Isner on clay- who was honestly in horrible form 1st half of 2011. Next time they play i am sure Rafa will have plan and will be prepared, can´t see Isner take more than 1 tie- break from Rafa.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:05 AM   #45
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Default Re: Aside from Djokovic who is Nadal's biggest threat on clay?

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Totally agree. Gasquet, Ferrer and Murray do not have a chance. Dolgopolov too actually, but if the stars align he may have a very small one.

The only ones I can see troubling him are Isner, Del Potro and Federer (but would probably choke if he is close to beating him), aside from Djokovic, of course. But in RG he'll be in the final for sure, those players may have a chance in Rome or Madrid (specially the last one).
Dolgopolov has no chance. I like his game, but Rafa is a nightmare match-up for him (unlike, say, Djokovic), he struggles to even win games off him on hardcourts. In RG, chances are pretty much non-existent, I'm afraid.

Also, let's not assume Nadal is a lock in the final. Sure, he's the overwhelming favorite to get there, but there are players with the weapons to take him out in the right circumstances and nothing is set in stone. 2009 showed it, I bet no one saw Soderling coming.
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