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View Poll Results: What do you think of Filo V's avatar?

I think it is in good taste 7 33.33%
I think it is in bad taste 14 66.67%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-22-2012, 08:56 PM   #61
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangehat View Post
in bad taste, definitely, and I guess I could see how it would be offensive to some.

I'm not the biggest fan of being politically correct but in this case I would rather it be taken down.
My argument isn't so much as to that it would offend others, but more of "What is it aimed at accomplishing?"

If it really is just a "I don't care about whatever you say" sign Filo could just have used anyone, not this symbol of representation as Jesus.
Hence I conclude that the main point of that as his avatar is just to shock, polarize and insult.
Which frankly has no place on this discussion board.
That is a whole other issue, and you make good points. Quite frankly, I still don't know what to make of that picture. What is it trying to convey? That Jesus hates today's society and is telling us to fuck off? That Jesus was a gangsta? Is it simply a guy showing his middle finger?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post
But it is the most appropriate comparison, Har-Tru. A truly religious feeling (again, in its origin and not in its perversion as we see today) is an intimate, deeply personal communion with God or the saint or guru who brought you in contact with Truth/Consciousness/Divine. It is very personal and when someone hurts the one you love and revere deeply, in such an ignorant manner, you take it extremely personally.

Forget Jesus. Think about someone hurting someone you really love, truly, madly, deeply - your child, wife, friend, mother, father. It doesn't matter who. The hurt is exactly the same intensity.
In the face of the recent events in France, I don't think we need be reminded of the intensity that religious feeling can possess.

But you must realise that I, as an atheist, regard religious feelings of relationship with God as hallucination. You cannot compare God, any God you hold dear, with a wife or a mother. Your wives and mothers are known to exist, they have flesh and bones and are distinctively and unequivocaly near you. An avatar ridiculing them is bound to offend not only you but, more importantly, the person portrayed. Furthermore, your wife and mother have not, as far as I know, been used to justify wars, genocides, tortures, murders, psychological abuse, etc.

I respect every person's right to have an imaginary friend. Respect my right to say what I think about him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:12 PM   #62
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Of course I realise that. I am well aware of the fact that many people will get instantaneously offended by stuff like this. My point is... let me put it this way:

We have here a case of an "offence". We have an offender, Filo V, and a hypothetical offendee, let's call him Mr. X.

Filo decides to express his opinion about Christianity by using this avatar in an internet forum. Mr. X sees it and is outraged and offended. Why do we, in face of the situation, automatically turn our heads to Filo, hold him responsible and urge him to delete his avatar? Why is the offender at fault by default? Does Filo V, and every user here, have to cater to the personal feelings and beliefs of every single other user? Why must that always be more important than the right to free speech and to the free exercise of opinion?
You're smart, but I already knew that. This last paragraph is some superb manipulation used in a ery clever way, I must say.

But it's not working for me. Like you pointed out, we have the right to free speech and free exercise of opinion. But that photo is not "an exercise of opinion". The gesture itself is offensive to many, including me, it's a huge lack of good taste, and a childish attempt to irritate or offend people. Now that gesture on a figure like Jesus is just disrespectful in a very deep way to very large group of people (should they be MTFers or not), and the person using it as an avatar obviously knows what type of feelings it arouses in some people.

Quote:
The man in my avatar is my favourite living philosopher. If another user considered him to be a terrible thinker and a man not worthy of praise, but rather of criticism, and decided to sport an avatar ridiculing him, and if that hurt my feelings and offended me, would you say it would be reasonable for me to demand he got rid of that avatar? Of course not. Why is this any different? Why is this a whole other story?
If the avatar ridiculing him were anything like this you had all the right to ask him to remove it. The gesture involved in this image is offensive per se, regardless of the person who is doing it.

If it was an avatar where Jesus was eating Mc Donalds it would be arguable, but not this gesture, no. On any person.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:16 PM   #63
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
That is a whole other issue, and you make good points. Quite frankly, I still don't know what to make of that picture. What is it trying to convey? That Jesus hates today's society and is telling us to fuck off? That Jesus was a gangsta? Is it simply a guy showing his middle finger?



In the face of the recent events in France, I don't think we need be reminded of the intensity that religious feeling can possess.

But you must realise that I, as an atheist, regard religious feelings of relationship with God as hallucination. You cannot compare God, any God you hold dear, with a wife or a mother. Your wives and mothers are known to exist, they have flesh and bones and are distinctively and unequivocaly near you. An avatar ridiculing them is bound to offend not only you but, more importantly, the person portrayed. Furthermore, your wife and mother have not, as far as I know, been used to justify wars, genocides, tortures, murders, psychological abuse, etc.

I respect every person's right to have an imaginary friend. Respect my right to say what I think about him.
This is truly funny. (In a good way, I'm not teasing )

The only problem I have with it, is that it is a whole other issue. And it has little to do with whether he has the right to use the avatar or not.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:23 PM   #64
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arm View Post
You're smart, but I already knew that. This last paragraph is some superb manipulation used in a ery clever way, I must say.

But it's not working for me. Like you pointed out, we have the right to free speech and free exercise of opinion. But that photo is not "an exercise of opinion". The gesture itself is offensive to many, including me, it's a huge lack of good taste, and a childish attempt to irritate or offend people. Now that gesture on a figure like Jesus is just disrespectful in a very deep way to very large group of people (should they be MTFers or not), and the person using it as an avatar obviously knows what type of feelings it arouses in some people.



If the avatar ridiculing him were anything like this you had all the right to ask him to remove it. The gesture involved in this image is offensive per se, regardless of the person who is doing it.

If it was an avatar where Jesus was eating Mc Donalds it would be arguable, but not this gesture, no. On any person.
I assumed of course, for the sake of argument, that Filo is trying to convey some message instead of just being dull and vitriolic... A wild assumption indeed, but the discussion seemed too interesting to me to just let it pass.

I still fail to see what's so terrible about showing the middle finger, though. Vulgar, tasteless perhaps, but so unspeakably offensive?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:26 PM   #65
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
I assumed of course, for the sake of argument, that Filo is trying to convey some message instead of just being dull and vitriolic... A wild assumption indeed, but the discussion seemed too interesting to me to just let it pass.

I still fail to see what's so terrible about showing the middle finger, though. Vulgar, tasteless perhaps, but so unspeakably offensive?
What does it mean? He said it himself, it means a huge "f*ck you". Feels offensive to me...

I do agree that it is a very interesting discussion, and I am aware of the fact that you're not trying to defend him, or getting him any kind of free pass. That would be just silly.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:27 PM   #66
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by arm View Post
This is truly funny. (In a good way, I'm not teasing )

The only problem I have with it, is that it is a whole other issue. And it has little to do with whether he has the right to use the avatar or not.
Glad to entertain.

Do enlighten me, though. What is it that I am so blatantly missing?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:29 PM   #67
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Nobody cares. In your determination to shout from the rooftops that you don't care who is offended, you are missing the embarrassing truth that nobody really cares that you don't care.
People who don't care ignore, which you don't/can't.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:33 PM   #68
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

I actually didn't know that people were still whining about my avatar until 20 minutes ago

I was going to change it anyway, I'll probably change it to an actual FUCK YOU sign just so everyone truly gets exactly what message I'm trying to convey
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:35 PM   #69
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Glad to entertain.

Do enlighten me, though. What is it that I am so blatantly missing?
I don't think you're missing anything. You're a smart guy, I showed you my valid arguments, you explained me your valid arguments. I didn't convince you and you didn't convince me, we just end up having a different posture when it comes to this specific matter. Nothing wrong about it, on the contrary. Specially since I know that regardless of your opinion, you wouldn't use an avatar like that. (Or at least i think I know that. )
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:37 PM   #70
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
But you must realise that I, as an atheist, regard religious feelings of relationship with God as hallucination. You cannot compare God, any God you hold dear, with a wife or a mother. Your wives and mothers are known to exist, they have flesh and bones and are distinctively and unequivocaly near you. An avatar ridiculing them is bound to offend not only you but, more importantly, the person portrayed. Furthermore, your wife and mother have not, as far as I know, been used to justify wars, genocides, tortures, murders, psychological abuse, etc.

I respect every person's right to have an imaginary friend. Respect my right to say what I think about him.
But since you are a liberal man, you do understand that not everyone is an atheist as yourself either. As you rightfully live by the sensible and logical experiences you have had and have contributed to your world-view and philosophy; so too you would understand it is with others who are Believers - their spiritual experiences shape their beliefs. And to them - he is no imaginary friend. He is a LIVING TRUTH who showed them the way, brought them fulfillment, and his image to them is pure and sacred. So to me, as far as your bit on the 'imaginary friend' goes, it is clearly a difference between having the spiritual experience or not having the experience, or having faith, so to say.

Human beings are of all kinds. Some need a guiding figure. Some don't. But just because you don't need one, it doesn't give you the freedom to flog every one who does with a whip of your hatred of that need, like Filo did. There are millions who need God, who need an Image, and revere those who come closest to their image of the true, beautiful life.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:41 PM   #71
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post
You say you are not anti-Jesus but are doing things which are anti-Jesus.
No, I'm not. A computer avatar that has nothing to do with Jesus is anti-Jesus.

Quote:
Please don't give self-contradictory statements only to prove a point. You prove nothing. Anyone sensible can read into your total lack of logic. Sensitive people care. Insensitive people don't care. You can't be sensitive and insensitive about the same issue at the same time. The endorsement of your action is similar to saying, 'I care about black people but I still wanna shoot the f***ing niggers!' Either you do or you don't. Don't self-contradict yourself.
I am sensitive, but to real issues. This isn't one of them, this controversy over my avatar. I am not sensitive to bullshit. That's not contradictory. That's maturity and common sense.


Quote:
The pleas are valid. This is liberal public forum open to all people from the world. And as with every community, you need to be careful about what can be brought openly in public. Don't misuse its liberal ideology to suit your theories. You want to walk naked in the boulevard. Well, you might want to, but if the laws restrict you; you will be led away. You can't say 'this is how I am and all of you have to accept me as I am.' Its about communal harmony. Everything is not accepted everywhere. If you wanna go nude, go to a nudist beach. There it wouldn't be a crime.
Obviously, since I haven't been banned nor reprimanded for my avatar, it isn't a problem. And since this is a computer forum, I know none of you personally, and I really don't care what 95% of people here think whatsoever, there isn't any actual reason for me to change my avatar. The pleas are not valid because it's my avatar, therefore my choice to have whichever photo I want as my avatar. This is the one I chose.

Quote:
Similarly, this is not some underground anti-Christ forum. There your avatar might have been valid because you would be among your lot. But to most people, Jesus is a revered saint and to publicly humiliate him is to humiliate those who believe in him. That is not being sensitive. That is being a very weak man who doesn't care. Your actions are not justified. You act like a petulant twelve year old without regard to consequence of his actions.
This is a computer forum. There are no consequences here. And I'm not anti-Christ, so therefore you are making assumptions and essentially allowing yourself to make a big deal over something that wasn't even intended to be offensive in the first place. If you get offended when I told you it's not meant to attack Jesus, then it's you to blame. Stop allowing yourself to get offended by the avatar and you won't have a problem.

Quote:
Tell me, would you have the audacity to do what you did, to Mohammed? You wouldn't. It would make headline news. They'd track down your IP, send a man of your own religion to your doorstep, and chop those pretty fingers running mayhem on a keypad and there'd be no middle finger to show anyone. Jesus is a soft target, and Christians are more liberal, and hence your show of false courage, chat-room hero.
Of course, I would, since I was GOING TO originally, but then I chose this photo because it was BIGGER for the avatar space. There was a middle finger of Mohammed, a middle finger of Obama, middle finder of Osama Bin Laden, middle finger of Steve Jobs, and several other figures. I just chose this one, since it makes the most powerful statement. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK. That's what it means and that's what I feel
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:28 PM   #72
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arm View Post
I don't think you're missing anything. You're a smart guy, I showed you my valid arguments, you explained me your valid arguments. I didn't convince you and you didn't convince me, we just end up having a different posture when it comes to this specific matter. Nothing wrong about it, on the contrary. Specially since I know that regardless of your opinion, you wouldn't use an avatar like that. (Or at least i think I know that. )
I wouldn't use it, and I'll tell you why in poetry:

There once was a man in Moldavia
Who did not believe in his Saviour
And he erected instead
With himself at the head
The religion of Decorous Behaviour


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post
But since you are a liberal man, you do understand that not everyone is an atheist as yourself either. As you rightfully live by the sensible and logical experiences you have had and have contributed to your world-view and philosophy; so too you would understand it is with others who are Believers - their spiritual experiences shape their beliefs. And to them - he is no imaginary friend. He is a LIVING TRUTH who showed them the way, brought them fulfillment, and his image to them is pure and sacred. So to me, as far as your bit on the 'imaginary friend' goes, it is clearly a difference between having the spiritual experience or not having the experience, or having faith, so to say.

Human beings are of all kinds. Some need a guiding figure. Some don't. But just because you don't need one, it doesn't give you the freedom to flog every one who does with a whip of your hatred of that need, like Filo did. There are millions who need God, who need an Image, and revere those who come closest to their image of the true, beautiful life.
You think I don't know all this? I was a believer until just some years ago. But that is beside the point.

I know, people feel passionate about things and get hurt when others bash them. So what?? Instead of censoring ourselves left and right and walking on eggshells maybe we should take a look at ourselves and stop being so damn oversensitive about everything.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:46 PM   #73
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
That is a whole other issue, and you make good points. Quite frankly, I still don't know what to make of that picture. What is it trying to convey? That Jesus hates today's society and is telling us to fuck off? That Jesus was a gangsta? Is it simply a guy showing his middle finger?
I would assume that the creator of that image probably meant it to be an insulting gesture towards religious people, that Jesus was not the wholesome and sacred person they construed him to be. Then again, what the author of the image meant it to be is not as important as what Filo V. meant it to be.

Judging from Filo V.'s posts in general, I assume this was at least partially a veiled potshot at the religious community (in particular Christians). Maybe he meant for it to be a "I don't give a damn about anything" in general, (though I would find that slightly hard to believe) but then it still shows poor judgment in choosing his avatar
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:39 AM   #74
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
The man in my avatar is my favourite living philosopher.
Who is he?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
You think I don't know all this? I was a believer until just some years ago. But that is beside the point.
May I ask what happened? (Obviously) feel free to PM me if my request isn't unreasonable.
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Old 03-23-2012, 04:08 PM   #75
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
Who is he?
Shelly Kagan, Professor of Philosophy at Yale.

He is not mainstream and has a huge ego, but he's boss.

Quote:
May I ask what happened? (Obviously) feel free to PM me if my request isn't unreasonable.
I started thinking.

I realised there are no good reasons to believe in the existence of any deity, and there are plenty of good reasons to believe they are a human construct.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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