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Old 03-01-2012, 11:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

I prefer monogamy.

Instead of making love to a million women, I'd rather make love to one woman a million ways.

This way also takes out of the equation all jealousy and all other kinds of bullshit.

Federer? Nadal? Djokovic? All have one, long term woman.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

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They are possible but what it takes to maintain them isn't worth the hassle of being in them. Positive/negative list, and the negative list is longer than the positive list, at least that's how I see it, so therefore, I think it's a negative situation overall.
Well it might be just me, but I am rather happy to have been in a long-lasting relationship for over 10 years right now. Not married, neither of us has any inclination to do so. We're just, uhm... HAPPY.
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

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Well it might be just me, but I am rather happy to have been in a long-lasting relationship for over 10 years right now. Not married, neither of us has any inclination to do so. We're just, uhm... HAPPY.
This is good. Because that shows me your relationship is real. People in a real committed relationship don't feel any desperation to marry and don't need a title on their relationship to validate it.

You're one of the lucky ones, hun. One of the lucky few.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.



OK. I see that you've decided to return from your ban as more of a troll than ever.

Thread = farce.

/thread.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:48 AM   #20
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

I've always been told by my grandparents that when you have to resort to attacking the person who has an opinion you disagree with, that means you don't have a valid position of your own. I now can see why this was something they stressed I not do in a debate of any kind.
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:57 AM   #21
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

With all due respect Francis, you don't have the right to bash (because that's what you're doing) people for having choices different from yours.

Have you ever been in a committed relationship? (a really committed one, not someone you had slept with a couple of times) if you haven't then how can you tell they are bad? you cannot judge by what you see in others, you have to live it and if it doesn't fit you then ok, move on and have tons of meaningless hookups.

I had a fair share of boyfriends and hookups when I was younger and those felt ok at the time, I sow my wild oats and know both sides of the coin, I chose the one that I thought it was best for me.

To you the concept of love is so "bullshit" because you're not even able to love yourself completely besides your looks, so you cannot understand how people can love others, it's a foreign concept to you.

Marriage is an option, it gives you many legal benefits in the long run if you share space with someone, I don't think everyone should get married but I don't see why people shouldn't, I chose to do it and I'm happy with my choice, no one pressured neither Mikel not me to do it, we did it because we wanted to share everything.

At the end of the day, it's a matter of choice and no one should feel pressured to stay single, have a relationship or get married, you do what makes you happy.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:39 PM   #22
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
Natural=Produced by or present in nature.
And Man is part of Nature. Your view is extremely anthropocentric. It's a bit surprising coming from you, since the tendency to place mankind outside -and in opposition to- Nature is very much a religious construct. I don't understand some peoples refusal to acknowledge that, first and formeost, we are animals.

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Marriage is a man-made institution.
Marriage (for life, legal contract, social subunit, religious implications involving guilt, etc), is certainly cultural. But long lasting cohabitation by a breeding couple is a circumstance of our biology. It came way before marriage.

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Marriage developed as a means for families to trade and share assets and to reduce the incidence of disease with children, who were dying regularly post-birth due to disease. Also, many marriages were arranged; basically a person with a high-social status would marry an individual with a low social-status, and that marriage was nothing more than a business relationship more than anything else.
You are talking perhaps 6-8,000 years (since the start of the Neolithic and the creation of class distinctions). I'm talking roughly about 1.8-2 million years (since the genus Homo started using tools and leaving traks of a lifestyle that differed widely from that of other apes). Perhaps even longer, if the genus Australopithecus can be proved to be a bit more human-like in its behaviour patterns.

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Marriage has virtually NOTHING to do with love in the original sense. You can love someone and choose not marry them.
You are talking love, I'm talking species survival. And there is no such thing as 'the original sense of love', love is a highly sophisticated concept that came much later down the evolution trail. Our 'original' concerns were feeding, mating and surviving. Romance, existencial anguish and doubts about the origin of things seeped into the picture slowly, and much later than instinctual drives for survival.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:10 PM   #23
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

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With all due respect Francis, you don't have the right to bash (because that's what you're doing) people for having choices different from yours.
I'm not bashing the choices of others, because I know, if a person is happier in an exclusive, committed, monogamous relationship than the other possible alternatives, that's their life and their choice. But that doesn't mean I don't think it's disgusting for me, because it is disgusting for me. It does repulse me, and has basically since I was a pre-teen. It's a personal opinion and not meant as an attack on others, but I will also not lie and say that yeah, I think people are making a mistake and wasting their life by getting in a relationship. But I can't make people see things the way I do.

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Have you ever been in a committed relationship? (a really committed one, not someone you had slept with a couple of times) if you haven't then how can you tell they are bad? you cannot judge by what you see in others, you have to live it and if it doesn't fit you then ok, move on and have tons of meaningless hookups.
No.................because literally the idea has disgusted me since I was 13. I've ALWAYS said, since little, I will never be in a relationship, I hate the idea of it, I hate the concept of it, and it's not for me. I've consistently said this throughout my life and it's something I've asked myself, why, exactly do I feel this way? It's not a conscious choice I've made, it's just a natural inclination.

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I had a fair share of boyfriends and hookups when I was younger and those felt ok at the time, I sow my wild oats and know both sides of the coin, I chose the one that I thought it was best for me.
Great for you, glad you're happy, do what is good for you. That's life.

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To you the concept of love is so "bullshit" because you're not even able to love yourself completely besides your looks, so you cannot understand how people can love others, it's a foreign concept to you.
The concept of love isn't bullshit to me. Love exists. I love love and I love to be loved. I love a lot of people, I have people in my life who I care for deeply and certain passions that are very important to me. I'm not just in love with myself, although yes, I do love myself, and that shouldn't be an issue or derided. We all should be in love with ourselves, and love ourselves first and foremost, and put ourselves above anyone else. Me, myself, and I, that's all you have in this world at the end of the day because, ultimately, your body is your body, your life is your life, and you only have one. Is that me being stuck up and conceited? Not really, just brutally honest. If you have a heart-attack, being in love with someone ain't gonna fix your heart. If you get in a car accident going to work, being in a relationship won't heal your injuries any quicker. That's just how it is.

I love myself beyond my looks. I'm thoughtful, I'm courteous. I give back to my community and realize there is a bigger picture in the world outside of me and my life. But are my looks and my appearance in general my #1 priority? Yes. Having that as a priority of mine, being attractive and having an appearance that gives me what I want, doesn't mean I don't have other facets to my personality as well. We all have certain segments to our being that are most central to who we are as individuals as a whole, and for me, that just happens to be my appearance. Being looks-centric isn't something that should be derided or criticized.

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Marriage is an option, it gives you many legal benefits in the long run if you share space with someone
Marrying for legal benefits=not a real relationship, in my eyes. That is NOT a reason to marry someone whatsoever, a couple with true love for one another doesn't feel a need to slap the title of marriage on their relationship and don't need to have government define and validate their relationship. And why people would seek increased government intrusion in their lives intentionally, I have no idea.

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At the end of the day, it's a matter of choice and no one should feel pressured to stay single, have a relationship or get married, you do what makes you happy.
I agree. No matter my opinion, I can't force an adult human being to do something against their will, anyway. Their life, their choices.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

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And Man is part of Nature. Your view is extremely anthropocentric. It's a bit surprising coming from you, since the tendency to place mankind outside -and in opposition to- Nature is very much a religious construct. I don't understand some peoples refusal to acknowledge that, first and formeost, we are animals.
What I am saying is intentionally very simplistic. Of course, humans are animals at the end of the day, and we are apart of nature. I guess, at the end of the day, that does make marriage "natural" in that it's something humans produce/engage in, who are apart of nature. But that doesn't mean marriage is a naturally-occurring institution, as it is not. It's a fabricated institution that is present in nature. Monogamy in general, is a fabrication, and what humans consider "normal" relationships is culturally/socially constructed.


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Marriage (for life, legal contract, social subunit, religious implications involving guilt, etc), is certainly cultural. But long lasting cohabitation by a breeding couple is a circumstance of our biology. It came way before marriage.
Long-lasting cohabitation by a breeding couple is essentially 100% based on procreation, and is unnecessary otherwise. Females are solely a procreative tool in this scenario. A male takes a female who they see as desirable and a genetically compatible; they come together with the intent to have a child; they copulate and create life; the female takes care of the child, and the male provides for the household. The thing is, often time, the male would go off and engage in intercourse, regularly with OTHER MALES, while the female is carrying. Any of this sound familiar? Of course, the same things are happening now. A guy knocks a woman up, then sleeps around with men and/or women with her having absolutely no clue of his extracurricular activities. All of this doesn't sound very healthy to me, though. A majority of women today don't desire to live a life of a housewife while the man gets to live out his life and make the bacon. Women want independence and the ability to make their own pathway in the world. Marrying takes that away from women, because marriage, and relationships in general, are rooted in these gender-stereotypical notions of existence. Women are "supposed" to be the care-givers, taking care of everyone and not putting themselves first; if she does different, she's a bad partner. If a woman seeks out a life of independence, she's trying to be like a man. If a woman has sex for reasons outside of procreation, she's a whore. This is all unhealthy and why the entire mentality surrounding marriage and long-term relationships, and marriage and long-term relationships in themselves, are ultimately a negative for humanity.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:38 PM   #25
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

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You are talking perhaps 6-8,000 years (since the start of the Neolithic and the creation of class distinctions). I'm talking roughly about 1.8-2 million years (since the genus Homo started using tools and leaving traks of a lifestyle that differed widely from that of other apes). Perhaps even longer, if the genus Australopithecus can be proved to be a bit more human-like in its behaviour patterns.
None of this makes relationships, as they are currently defined and currently seen as by human society, a necessity for anyone to enter. Which is essentially the entire point I've been making this whole time.


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You are talking love, I'm talking species survival. And there is no such thing as 'the original sense of love', love is a highly sophisticated concept that came much later down the evolution trail. Our 'original' concerns were feeding, mating and surviving. Romance, existencial anguish and doubts about the origin of things seeped into the picture slowly, and much later than instinctual drives for survival.
No, I am not talking about love, personally. The truth is, that's why most people say they marry, because they love their partner, although the origin of marriage has nothing to do with love, and although love is not a reason why a male-female in whichever individual species pair together. Love is completely irrelevant when it comes to relationships because you can love someone and not be in a relationship with them.
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:44 PM   #26
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

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That's my opinion. It honestly repulses me, the idea of being in a relationship. Literally............it makes me want to throw up. I hate it, I think it's archaic, I think they are inherently moralistic, I think they are inherently sexist, for women and men, in both same-sex and opposite-sex relationships, I think it's desperate and needy, and I don't understand why people would restrict themselves to only one person and put parameters on their freedom that wouldn't be there otherwise. I hate it. That doesn't mean I don't support these relationships, though. I love to see loving couples embrace and enjoy one another. But I still hate it for myself in every single way.

Why do people want to get married, knowing it's an institution that is inherently unnatural, that is based on a way of thinking that has been eliminated far ago, and understanding MOST relationships fail? MOST marriages fail, yet people still want to marry? That really perplexes me. It's a waste of time and for me, it's basically a piece of paper from the government saying your relationship is valid, which is an intrusion of personal freedom and privacy.

Anyway, what does everyone here think? Yes, I've made similar threads like this, but I've always tried to be PC about how I really felt. Not anymore.




P.S. Mods, I PLEAD that you do not merge this thread. PLEASE do not do so. Thank you.
Scientifically speaking, you are wrong, monogamy is in our genetic make-up, we are a monogamous species. To put it bluntly, humans get jealous. Its the same reason why when a male lion takes over a pride, he will often kill the previous male's offspring.

Obviously, this genetic make-up doesn't stop humans from 'cheating', but it does make living in an open non-monogamous relationship very difficult. Has the OP actually lived with more than one partner at the same time? There's a reason its so rare, its unnatural to us.

edit: I see you aren't actually in favour of polygamous relationships, you just disagree with sexual relationships in general. Ok. Problem there is we are social animals. We need relationships. Why do you differentiate between sexual relationships and relationships based on friendship? In your scenario, any relationship is a waste of time because it takes too much work and can cause pain etc. If thats the case, I feel sorry for you dude.
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:28 PM   #27
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

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Scientifically speaking, you are wrong, monogamy is in our genetic make-up, we are a monogamous species. To put it bluntly, humans get jealous. Its the same reason why when a male lion takes over a pride, he will often kill the previous male's offspring.
Is that why the overwhelming majority of humans are incapable of monogamy? If this were true, monogamy would be the norm from culture to culture, and it isn't, to this day. Jealousy doesn't make monogamy a necessity. Jealousy is an emotional trait, not a logical one. It's not as if jealousy can not be avoided; it can be avoided. All it takes is a mentality change. And a shift from an emotional way of responding to things, to a logical, thought-based process.

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Obviously, this genetic make-up doesn't stop humans from 'cheating', but it does make living in an open non-monogamous relationship very difficult. Has the OP actually lived with more than one partner at the same time? There's a reason its so rare, its unnatural to us.
Relationships in general fail, regardless of they being polygamous or monogamous. Polygamy isn't unnatural, no more so than monogamy is. It's shunned throughout most societies, but it still occurs and there are long-lasting poly-relationships that occur the same way there are monogamous relationships which occur.

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I see you aren't actually in favour of polygamous relationships, you just disagree with sexual relationships in general.
I don't disagree with sexual relationships...........just the idea that relationships are at all a necessity or somehow an ideal for all.

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Ok. Problem there is we are social animals. We need relationships.
True, but that has nothing to do with needing an exclusive, monogamous relationship with one individual person.

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Why do you differentiate between sexual relationships and relationships based on friendship?
Because a relationship isn't a relationship until sex enters the picture.

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In your scenario, any relationship is a waste of time because it takes too much work and can cause pain etc. If thats the case, I feel sorry for you dude.
I'm happy, don't feel sorry for me. I'm single and loving it!
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Old 03-02-2012, 06:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

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Is that why the overwhelming majority of humans are incapable of monogamy? If this were true, monogamy would be the norm from culture to culture, and it isn't, to this day. Jealousy doesn't make monogamy a necessity. Jealousy is an emotional trait, not a logical one. It's not as if jealousy can not be avoided; it can be avoided. All it takes is a mentality change. And a shift from an emotional way of responding to things, to a logical, thought-based process.

Relationships in general fail, regardless of they being polygamous or monogamous. Polygamy isn't unnatural, no more so than monogamy is. It's shunned throughout most societies, but it still occurs and there are long-lasting poly-relationships that occur the same way there are monogamous relationships which occur.

I don't disagree with sexual relationships...........just the idea that relationships are at all a necessity or somehow an ideal for all.

True, but that has nothing to do with needing an exclusive, monogamous relationship with one individual person.

Because a relationship isn't a relationship until sex enters the picture.

I'm happy, don't feel sorry for me. I'm single and loving it!
Well I think the bolded part is the issue for me dude, yes relationships fail but that doesn't stop them being worth it. I've had about ten or so different sexual relationships during my life and barring a couple of shitty ones, they've definitely improved the quality of my life and I wouldn't go back in time to change anything.

There's nothing to stop a monogamous relationship from ending amicably. Sure you can on occasion end up with a bad ending, but unless your a teenager its really not that big a deal.

Also you need to look up the definition of friendship dude, its definitely a relationship, sex or no sex.
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:31 PM   #29
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Well I think the bolded part is the issue for me dude, yes relationships fail but that doesn't stop them being worth it.
You're entitled to that opinion, but the way I see it, the time an individual spends with whoever they were with during that period of time they were in a relationship, was a waste of time, since it ended in failure. That time could have been spent finding your true soulmate, or being single and not having the pain/drama/stress/disappointment that comes with ending a relationship, or trying to maintain a relationship destined to fail. If I ever decide to date, it's 'till death would do us part, and nothing else.

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I've had about ten or so different sexual relationships during my life and barring a couple of shitty ones, they've definitely improved the quality of my life and I wouldn't go back in time to change anything.
I'm happy for you

That doesn't mean, though, that happiness couldn't have been found being single, though. I think if a person sees their relationship as a "completion" of their life, instead of an addition, then they have to figure out what hole is in their OWN PERSONAL life that makes them believe being in a relationship will somehow make them feel better about themselves, or that somehow that fleeting feeling of happiness with that person you're in a relationship with will last. It generally doesn't last which is why exclusive, committed relationships fail most of the time.

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There's nothing to stop a monogamous relationship from ending amicably. Sure you can on occasion end up with a bad ending, but unless your a teenager its really not that big a deal.
This is true. But the way I see it is, a failed relationship is a failed relationship. And you can't change the past. You can't erase history. That relationship with your ex-mate is forever changed. Is it worth it? I don't think it is.

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Also you need to look up the definition of friendship dude, its definitely a relationship, sex or no sex.
Never said it wasn't. A friendship is a relationship, but it's not an exclusive, monogamous relationship with the TITLE relationship that puts it in a different category than a regular friendship. When two friends have sex, the line has crossed between just being friends, to being more. Friends with benefits, at the very least. Because now the relationship is more than just two people enjoying each others' company. But now, the two individuals involved have essentially declared their attraction and desire for one another on a deeper level than just wanting to hang out. When that line is crossed, things change, regardless of if you want them to or not.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: Exclusive, monogamous relationships are disgusting.

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
You're entitled to that opinion, but the way I see it, the time an individual spends with whoever they were with during that period of time they were in a relationship, was a waste of time, since it ended in failure. That time could have been spent finding your true soulmate, or being single and not having the pain/drama/stress/disappointment that comes with ending a relationship, or trying to maintain a relationship destined to fail. If I ever decide to date, it's 'till death would do us part, and nothing else.

I'm happy for you

That doesn't mean, though, that happiness couldn't have been found being single, though. I think if a person sees their relationship as a "completion" of their life, instead of an addition, then they have to figure out what hole is in their OWN PERSONAL life that makes them believe being in a relationship will somehow make them feel better about themselves, or that somehow that fleeting feeling of happiness with that person you're in a relationship with will last. It generally doesn't last which is why exclusive, committed relationships fail most of the time.

This is true. But the way I see it is, a failed relationship is a failed relationship. And you can't change the past. You can't erase history. That relationship with your ex-mate is forever changed. Is it worth it? I don't think it is.

Never said it wasn't. A friendship is a relationship, but it's not an exclusive, monogamous relationship with the TITLE relationship that puts it in a different category than a regular friendship. When two friends have sex, the line has crossed between just being friends, to being more. Friends with benefits, at the very least. Because now the relationship is more than just two people enjoying each others' company. But now, the two individuals involved have essentially declared their attraction and desire for one another on a deeper level than just wanting to hang out. When that line is crossed, things change, regardless of if you want them to or not.
Only in terms of not sleeping with them anymore. I've stayed friends with quite a few ex-partners. It depends on what kind of a person you are. Having a sexual 'relationship' for me is akin to having a friend who you sleep with. So basically its twice as rewarding as a normal relationship. Its definitely worth it dude. You are missing out bigtime, but thats just my opinion.
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