Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10 - Page 4 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 02-19-2012, 12:22 AM   #46
country flag ssin
Registered User
 
ssin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Belgrade
Posts: 1,668
ssin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Rafa is similar against Nole.
Maybe, but Rafa used to kick Novak's ass. At one point Novak was even Rafa's turkey, 14:4, or something close to it, so something has changed obviously, although their matches have always been pretty close.
ssin is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 02-19-2012, 12:29 AM   #47
country flag SaFed2005
Registered User
 
SaFed2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 4,802
SaFed2005 has a reputation beyond reputeSaFed2005 has a reputation beyond reputeSaFed2005 has a reputation beyond reputeSaFed2005 has a reputation beyond reputeSaFed2005 has a reputation beyond reputeSaFed2005 has a reputation beyond reputeSaFed2005 has a reputation beyond reputeSaFed2005 has a reputation beyond reputeSaFed2005 has a reputation beyond reputeSaFed2005 has a reputation beyond reputeSaFed2005 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

I think mental strength especially along with most other attributes should be scored with the player at their peak. I noticed that most people are giving Djoko a higher mental strength at the moment than Fed and Nad. He is at his peak right now. But in a couple of years when he starts losing, it will look like his mental strength is not where it used to be. Every great player goes through that phase. It happened to Fed, it happened to Nad and it will happen to Djoko.
__________________
PAW Singles Ranking - 396
TITLES (TMS Rome 04', Rolland Garros 04', Wimbeldon 04')
RUNNER-UP (Rosmalen 04' US Open 04')
SaFed2005 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 12:33 AM   #48
country flag ssin
Registered User
 
ssin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Belgrade
Posts: 1,668
ssin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond reputessin has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

^^^
I give Nadal a higher mental strength over any other player, any time, before and right now
ssin is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 12:42 AM   #49
country flag Slice Winner
Registered User
 
Slice Winner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,181
Slice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Peak versions. Nole and Muzz pretty much are peak - Fed and Rafs would lose a few points here & there.

Djokovic
Forehand: 8.5
Backhand topspin/flat: 9.5
Backhand slice: 6
Serve: 8
Return: 10
Net play: 7 (good coverage, but doesn't always place volleys well - no killer instinct)
Physical Strength & Fitness: 10 (after Aus Open 2012, nothing needs to be said)
Mental Strength: 9.5 (Occasionally guilty of clowning, which makes him lose focus)
Tactics: 8 (Good, but I don't see this as his strongest point. Occasionally overuses dropshots (often in combo w/ lobs))
Movement: 9.5

Nadal
Forehand: 9 (Amazing power and spin, not very versatile though)
Backhand topspin/flat: 7.5
Backhand slice: 4 (decent floating defensive slice, terrible otherwise)
Serve: 8 (the peak was about 2 tournaments though)
Return: 8.5
Net play: 7 (good at dealing with easy putaways, good reflexes, weaker on difficult/low volleys)
Physical Strength & Fitness: 10
Mental Strength: 9.5 (sometimes gets down on himself for UEs, otherwise perfect)
Tactics: 7.5 (builds points well, but wins come more due to mental strength than tactics. Clueless against Djokovic 2.0)
Movement: 10

Federer
Forehand: 10
Backhand topspin/flat: 8
Backhand slice: 9
Serve: 9.5
Return: 9 (peak Fed's ROS >> 2012 Fed's ROS)
Net play: 8.5 (fantastic hands, occasionally blunders on easy/high volleys)
Physical Strength & Fitness: 9 (probably deserves higher for never retiring, but purely match stamina)
Mental Strength: 9 (Peak Fed very clutch, similar to Sampras, relying on serve. Sometimes throws in towel in 5th set)
Tactics: 8.5 (His point construction is underrated. Mixes his style depending on opponent/surface probably more than the others of top 4)
Movement: 9.5

Murray
Forehand: 7.5
Backhand topspin/flat: 9
Backhand slice: 8
Serve: 7 (big 1st serve, terrible %, terrible 2nd serve)
Return: 9.5
Net play: 7.5 (good hands and anticipation. Often gets way too tight to net)
Physical Strength & Fitness: 9.5
Mental Strength: 7 (Alternates between brilliant 2-sets-down victories, and not showing up mentally. Gets angry at himself each match, etc.)
Tactics: 6.5 (Actually capable of very good tactics, ruined by mental collapses and/or incessant pushing. No killer instinct 90% of the time)
Movement: 8.5 (incredibly quick, but doesn't always use his feet well)

Totals (out of 100)
Djokovic: 86
Nadal: 81
Federer: 90
Murray: 80

Looking at this, I feel like Murray should be lower, but it's because I gave a whole category for slice backhand instead of averaging slice and topspin backhands, in which case entire thing would be a little closer, but I CBA adding things again.

(Edited to include movement)

Last edited by Slice Winner : 02-19-2012 at 01:01 AM.
Slice Winner is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 12:51 AM   #50
country flag Slice Winner
Registered User
 
Slice Winner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,181
Slice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Tommy Haas

Forehand: 11
Backhand topspin/flat: 11
Backhand slice: 42
Serve: 11
Return: 11
Net play: 9001
Physical Strength & Fitness: 11
Mental Strength: 11
Tactics: 11
Germanness: 11
Sexiness: 11
Ajde level: Off the charts
Slice Winner is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 12:57 AM   #51
country flag out_grinder
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 703
out_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Djoko
Forehand - 6
Backhand - 8
Slice - 3
Volleys - 3
Serve - 5
Return - 6
Physical Strength & Fitness - 6
Mental Strength - 6
Tactics - 4
TOTAL: 47

Rafa
Forehand - 8
Backhand - 6
Slice - 5
Volleys - 4
Serve - 5
Return - 4
Physical Strength & Fitness - 6
Mental Strength - 10
Tactics - N/A
TOTAL: 48*
*total skewed by 'N/A' rating for 'Tactics'

Roger
Forehand - 8
Backhand - 6.5
Slice - 8
Volleys - 5
Serve - 7
Return - 4
Physical Strength & Fitness - 4
Mental Strength - 6
Tactics - 8
TOTAL: 56.5

Murray
Forehand - 3
Backhand - 6.5
Slice - 5
Volleys - 3
Serve - 4
Return - 5
Physical Strength & Fitness - 5
Mental Strength - 3
Tactics - 4
TOTAL: 38.5
out_grinder is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 01:21 AM   #52
country flag rocketassist
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,682
rocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by out_grinder View Post
Djoko
Forehand - 6
Backhand - 8
Slice - 3
Volleys - 3
Serve - 5
Return - 6
Physical Strength & Fitness - 6
Mental Strength - 6
Tactics - 4
TOTAL: 47

Rafa
Forehand - 8
Backhand - 6
Slice - 5
Volleys - 4
Serve - 5
Return - 4
Physical Strength & Fitness - 6
Mental Strength - 10
Tactics - N/A
TOTAL: 48*
*total skewed by 'N/A' rating for 'Tactics'

Roger
Forehand - 8
Backhand - 6.5
Slice - 8
Volleys - 5
Serve - 7
Return - 4
Physical Strength & Fitness - 4
Mental Strength - 6
Tactics - 8
TOTAL: 56.5

Murray
Forehand - 3
Backhand - 6.5
Slice - 5
Volleys - 3
Serve - 4
Return - 5
Physical Strength & Fitness - 5
Mental Strength - 3
Tactics - 4
TOTAL: 38.5
this is worse than Sapeod's
rocketassist is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 02:10 AM   #53
country flag allpro
Registered User
 
allpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,979
allpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond reputeallpro has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Tommy Haas

Forehand: 11
Backhand topspin/flat: 11
Backhand slice: 42
Serve: 11
Return: 11
Net play: 9001
Physical Strength & Fitness: 11
Mental Strength: 11
Tactics: 11
Germanness: 11
Sexiness: 11
Ajde level: Off the charts


11
allpro is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 02:39 AM   #54
country flag Slice Winner
Registered User
 
Slice Winner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,181
Slice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by allpro View Post

11
Exactly
Slice Winner is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 03:47 AM   #55
country flag Mechlan
Moderator
 
Mechlan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,106
Mechlan has a reputation beyond reputeMechlan has a reputation beyond reputeMechlan has a reputation beyond reputeMechlan has a reputation beyond reputeMechlan has a reputation beyond reputeMechlan has a reputation beyond reputeMechlan has a reputation beyond reputeMechlan has a reputation beyond reputeMechlan has a reputation beyond reputeMechlan has a reputation beyond reputeMechlan has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Based on current form.

Djokovic:
Forehand: 8.5
Backhand: 9.5
Serve: 8
Physical Strength & Fitness: 9
Mental Strength: 9
Tactics: 8
Total: 52

Nadal:
Forehand: 9
Backhand: 7
Serve: 7
Physical Strength & Fitness: 9.5
Mental Strength: 9.5
Tactics: 8
Total: 50

Federer:
Forehand: 9
Backhand: 6
Serve: 9
Physical Strength & Fitness: 8
Mental Strength: 7
Tactics: 7
Total: 46

Murray:
Forehand: 7
Backhand: 9
Serve: 7.5
Physical Strength & Fitness: 9
Mental Strength: 6
Tactics: 8.5
Total: 47
Mechlan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 04:45 AM   #56
country flag Mountaindewslave
Registered User
 
Mountaindewslave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,470
Mountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapeod View Post
CURRENT VERSONS:

DJOKOVIC: 51/60
Forehand - 8, fairly good but nowhere near the best.
Backhand - 10, joint with Murray as the best on tour.
Serve - 8, nothing majorly special.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, he regularly gets tired and exhausted in his matches. Of course, this could just be an act. Knowing Djokovic, it probably is, so he gets a 9.
Mental Strength - 9, nothing wrong with his mentality, but he doesn't like it when crowds are cheering for his opponent
Tactics - 7. He has no tactics. He just grinds. However, he can do far more than Nadal can.

NADAL: 42/60
Forehand - 7, not great.
Backhand - 7, not great.
Serve - 5, he has a horrible serve
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, is falling.
Mental Strength - 9, same as ever.
Tactics - 5. Nadal has tactics? He just grinds, like Djokovic.

FEDERER: 44/60
Forehand - 8, still very good.
Backhand - 5, to be honest, it's a joke.
Serve - 7, not as good anymore.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, he is old now, but there's nothing wrong with him physically.
Mental Strength - 8, still relatively strong.
Tactics - 7, not as good as they once were.

MURRAY: 52/60
Forehand - 8, very good atm. Far better than what it used to be.
Backhand - 10, joint with Djokovic as the best on tour.
Serve - 8, on and off, though very good when it's on.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, one of the fittest guys on tour, though he does get days when he's unsually tired.
Mental Strength - 7, looking better, but it's still not the best.
Tactics - 10, currently the best tactical player on tour. That's how he plays.


PEAK VERSIONS:

DJOKOVIC: 51/60
The same as his current version.
Forehand - 8, fairly good but nowhere near the best.
Backhand - 10, joint with Murray as the best on tour.
Serve - 8, nothing majorly special.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, he regularly gets tired and exhausted in his matches. Of course, this could just be an act. Knowing Djokovic, it probably is, so he gets a 9.
Mental Strength - 9, nothing wrong with his mentality, but he doesn't like it when crowds are cheering for his opponent
Tactics - 7 (He has no tactics. He just grinds. However, he can do far more than Nadal can.)

FEDERER: 59/60
Forehand - 10, the best.
Backhand - 10, amazing.
Serve - 10, unbreakable.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 10, one of the fittest and strongest guys ever. Hardly ever got injured.
Mental Strength - 9, not the best, but still very good.
Tactics - 10, unstoppable.

NADAL: 45/60
Forehand - 8, overrated, but still very good.
Backhand - 7, it's never been great.
Serve - 6, has always been mediocre.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 10, one of the best, though his constant timeouts would get him a lower score, if it wasn't for the fact that they're all fake.
Mental Strength - 9, very good usually.
Tactics - 5, he's just a grinder.

MURRAY: 52/60
Forehand - 8, very good atm. Far better than what it used to be.
Backhand - 10, joint with Djokovic as the best on tour.
Serve - 8, on and off, though very good when it's on.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, one of the fittest guys on tour, though he does get days when he's unsually tired.
Mental Strength - 7, looking better, but it's still not the best.
Tactics - 10, currently the best tactical player on tour. That's how he plays.

Yes, I know I put Murray above peak Djokovic, but that's based on these categories. Overall, Djokovic is obviously better atm, though Murray is very close and at his peak, would be on a similar, if not higher, level.
only a truly delusional fan would put Murray's current form over Rafael Nadal's peak form............... it is definitely somewhat embarassing and posts like this don't garner you any more respect around here, that's for sure
__________________
<3 Dolgopolov <3 David Ferrer <3 Juan Martin Del Potro <3 Stan Wawrinka <3

------------------------ <3 Richard Gasquet <3

Rafael Nadal
Mountaindewslave is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 04:47 AM   #57
country flag Mystique
Registered User
 
Mystique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 22
Posts: 2,727
Mystique has a reputation beyond reputeMystique has a reputation beyond reputeMystique has a reputation beyond reputeMystique has a reputation beyond reputeMystique has a reputation beyond reputeMystique has a reputation beyond reputeMystique has a reputation beyond reputeMystique has a reputation beyond reputeMystique has a reputation beyond reputeMystique has a reputation beyond reputeMystique has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

All I say is shave 3 points off the scores of everything except the serve for current Fed from Peak Fed.
__________________
"In my opinion he's the best player ever. When you play tennis, playing Federer is kind of a dream because you can see he does everything you would love to do on the court" - Fabrice Santoro
Mystique is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 04:48 AM   #58
country flag Mountaindewslave
Registered User
 
Mountaindewslave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,470
Mountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond reputeMountaindewslave has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaFed2005 View Post
I think mental strength especially along with most other attributes should be scored with the player at their peak. I noticed that most people are giving Djoko a higher mental strength at the moment than Fed and Nad. He is at his peak right now. But in a couple of years when he starts losing, it will look like his mental strength is not where it used to be. Every great player goes through that phase. It happened to Fed, it happened to Nad and it will happen to Djoko.
hasn't really happened to Nadal as Nadal is mentally the same as before just (like everyone else) loses to Djokovic. it's like playing the video game PONG. it's not so much that Rafael Nadal has gotten weaker mentally as much as practically no matter what he does when he plays DJokovic, the ball comes back into play. not so much mentality as much as Nadal has just been outplayed over the last year
__________________
<3 Dolgopolov <3 David Ferrer <3 Juan Martin Del Potro <3 Stan Wawrinka <3

------------------------ <3 Richard Gasquet <3

Rafael Nadal
Mountaindewslave is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 05:27 AM   #59
country flag MuzzahLovah
Registered User
 
MuzzahLovah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Age: 25
Posts: 15,327
MuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond reputeMuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond reputeMuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond reputeMuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond reputeMuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond reputeMuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond reputeMuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond reputeMuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond reputeMuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond reputeMuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond reputeMuzzahLovah has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Yeah his tactics aren't great against Rafa.
But there's not a lot he can do to win that matchup - it requires too high a level of play sustained for too long.
Rafa is similar against Nole.

You can't judge a player's entire tactics based on one matchup.
Fed is extraordinarily stubborn as well as talented. Most of the time he wins out of talent and experience. Very rarely does he seem to figure out difficult opponents nowadays- if anything, he's more often losing from ahead than winning from behind after making tactical adjustments.
__________________
http://www.menstennisforums.com/atta...8&d=1224521470

Emperor Nishikori- King of Comeback- Slayer of Demons- Champion of Tokyo
MuzzahLovah is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 07:28 AM   #60
country flag tripwires
Registered User
 
tripwires's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Hague
Age: 27
Posts: 13,065
tripwires has a reputation beyond reputetripwires has a reputation beyond reputetripwires has a reputation beyond reputetripwires has a reputation beyond reputetripwires has a reputation beyond reputetripwires has a reputation beyond reputetripwires has a reputation beyond reputetripwires has a reputation beyond reputetripwires has a reputation beyond reputetripwires has a reputation beyond reputetripwires has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Tommy Haas

Forehand: 11
Backhand topspin/flat: 11
Backhand slice: 42
Serve: 11
Return: 11
Net play: 9001
Physical Strength & Fitness: 11
Mental Strength: 11
Tactics: 11
Germanness: 11
Sexiness: 11
Ajde level: Off the charts
Undoubtedly the best and most accurate post in this thread. The bolded part is sheer GOAT.
__________________
"But certain interests of particular people are so important that it would be wrong - morally wrong - for the community to sacrifice those interests just to secure an overall benefit. Political rights mark off and protect these particularly important interests. A political right, we may say, is a trump over the kind of trade-off argument that normally justifies political action." - Ronald Dworkin (RIP)
tripwires is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios