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Old 02-12-2012, 04:31 AM   #61
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

Unlucky? No. His game just wasn't as complete at the time.....and he was lacking the killer instinct that he has now. Like he said, the passion was there, but the belief was still MIA.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:05 PM   #62
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

There are players I'd call unlucky in Slams. Djokovic is not one of them. I remember a few of those draws being cakewalks before losing those matches in question. The Federer matches are the ones that could have changed everything and maybe wasn't ready - but he did beat Federer in 2008 AO en route to the title.

To have health issues due to conditioning isn't bad luck - I'll give you the virus against Tsonga as bad luck, not so much on the others.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:54 PM   #63
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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There are players I'd call unlucky in Slams. Djokovic is not one of them. I remember a few of those draws being cakewalks before losing those matches in question. The Federer matches are the ones that could have changed everything and maybe wasn't ready - but he did beat Federer in 2008 AO en route to the title.

To have health issues due to conditioning isn't bad luck - I'll give you the virus against Tsonga as bad luck, not so much on the others.
celiac disease is bad luck.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:19 PM   #64
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

At least he won two slam as no.3. Fed won't win anything as no.3 cause he is mental disaster who won't ever win back to back Rafa and Nole. So obvious for every fed fan.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:43 PM   #65
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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He just wasnt good enough.

End of, no one in 20 years will think "oh he was unlucky"
That's where you're wrong. He was good enough by then to win multi slams, he just didn't have it in the head. For me Nole's career has been affected by his rivals -playing in an era with two all time greats- and that he took more time to mature. But for all of us who have been following since 2007 he's the same player, he had the game alreado to beat anyone and win slams, and he proved it winning AO 2008 and beating Federer, and also should have won that USO 07 final against Federer if he hadn't chocked so terribly. So, yes, Nole was unlucky in my opinion, but it doesn't matter really, it was what he needed to evolve into the player he is today. But gamewise Nole 2007 is the same as Nole 2011-12.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:47 PM   #66
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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That's where you're wrong. He was good enough by then to win multi slams, he just didn't have it in the head. For me Nole's career has been affected by his rivals -playing in an era with two all time greats- and that he took more time to mature. But for all of us who have been following since 2007 he's the same player, he had the game alreado to beat anyone and win slams, and he proved it winning AO 2008 and beating Federer, and also should have won that USO 07 final against Federer if he hadn't chocked so terribly. So, yes, Nole was unlucky in my opinion, but it doesn't matter really, it was what he needed to evolve into the player he is today. But gamewise Nole 2007 is the same as Nole 2011-12.
Then the thread title should be that he's lucky to win slams now just because Fedal have declined. He got straight setted most of the time in slams around then, that's not just mental.

His forehand is doing so much more damage right now than it did back then.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:48 PM   #67
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
That's where you're wrong. He was good enough by then to win multi slams, he just didn't have it in the head. For me Nole's career has been affected by his rivals -playing in an era with two all time greats- and that he took more time to mature. But for all of us who have been following since 2007 he's the same player, he had the game alreado to beat anyone and win slams, and he proved it winning AO 2008 and beating Federer, and also should have won that USO 07 final against Federer if he hadn't chocked so terribly. So, yes, Nole was unlucky in my opinion, but it doesn't matter really, it was what he needed to evolve into the player he is today. But gamewise Nole 2007 is the same as Nole 2011-12.
Nole had in every semi and final Roger and Rafa but he at least two time won. Look at Roger now, he is going to play MM events tryin to surpass Rafa ranking cause he knows no slams more for him as number 3.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:50 PM   #68
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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Then the thread title should be that he's lucky to win slams now just because Fedal have declined. He got straight setted most of the time in slams around then, that's not just mental.

His forehand is doing so much more damage right now than it did back then.
Can't you read? i said the only difference was mentality which is about 40% in tennis or more. I think his forehand was devastating in 2007-08, he just pulled the trigger too soon, he took more risks and made more errors. Now he's more consistent. Also he had a better serve in 2007 by strides.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:04 PM   #69
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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Can't you read? i said the only difference was mentality which is about 40% in tennis or more. I think his forehand was devastating in 2007-08, he just pulled the trigger too soon, he took more risks and made more errors. Now he's more consistent. Also he had a better serve in 2007 by strides.
Being more consistent =/= mental, that's just being a better player. His serve right now is underrated, it's still a great shot. I haven't watched him in 07 enough to judge how good it was back then.

Also, his fitness is infinitely times better right now, is that mental too?

Really, he's a much better player now, and that is where he gets the confidence from. His game has improved and he knows he can rely on his shots, and that's why his mentality is better now, not the other way around.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:16 PM   #70
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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Being more consistent =/= mental, that's just being a better player. His serve right now is underrated, it's still a great shot. I haven't watched him in 07 enough to judge how good it was back then.

Also, his fitness is infinitely times better right now, is that mental too?

Really, he's a much better player now, and that is where he gets the confidence from. His game has improved and he knows he can rely on his shots, and that's why his mentality is better now, not the other way around.
Totally agree with this. Seriously, Nole is much better player now. Every aspect of his game has imporved bar the serve (which was better in 2007/2008). His forehand is really underrated. He worked so much on that shot. It's one of the best 5 forehands on the tour at the moment IMHO. His great backhand overshadowed his FH. Maybe that's why his FH is a little bit underrated.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:31 PM   #71
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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Then the thread title should be that he's lucky to win slams now just because Fedal have declined. He got straight setted most of the time in slams around then, that's not just mental.

His forehand is doing so much more damage right now than it did back then.
I think it's a bit of both - his game improved a bit - mainly his serve got back to normal after the awful 2010 & then his confidence just soared after Davis Cup 2010 and Aus Open 2011. Beating Nadal in those finals also helped his confidence - if he'd lost Indian Wells or Miami I don't think we'd have seen quite the dominance from him - as Nadal might have had a different attitude in the clay finals for example. It's clear that for players like Nadal & Djokovic their mental state and confidence affects them a lot - they've said as much in interviews...

But it's also a bit to do with Fedal declining - Novak had no chance at RG & Wimbledon in 2008 - Fedal (or mainly Rafa at RG) too good, in 2009 he had chances & should have capitalised on Nadal losing early in RG but didn't & in 2010 his serve was terrible - that's not bad luck. If he was facing 2006/2007 Federer or 2008 Nadal would he have been as dominant as he was last year? No. Doesn't mean he's not playing fantastic - after all 2008 Nadal didn't face this Novak; but to say his lack of GS wins was to do with luck is silly - he had good draws, was no. 3 in the world yet failed to win a slam or even reach a final for nearly years. For a player of his calibre to take another 11 slams to get to a final after winning the Aus Open 2008 was a waste of talent and no one's fault but his own.

The only thing you could say he was unlucky about was to keep falling into Roger's half at the US Open - if he'd been in Nadal's half he'd have got to the final again before 2010....
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:45 PM   #72
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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I think it's a bit of both - his game improved a bit - mainly his serve got back to normal after the awful 2010 & then his confidence just soared after Davis Cup 2010 and Aus Open 2011. Beating Nadal in those finals also helped his confidence - if he'd lost Indian Wells or Miami I don't think we'd have seen quite the dominance from him - as Nadal might have had a different attitude in the clay finals for example. It's clear that for players like Nadal & Djokovic their mental state and confidence affects them a lot - they've said as much in interviews...

But it's also a bit to do with Fedal declining - Novak had no chance at RG & Wimbledon in 2008 - Fedal (or mainly Rafa at RG) too good, in 2009 he had chances & should have capitalised on Nadal losing early in RG but didn't & in 2010 his serve was terrible - that's not bad luck. If he was facing 2006/2007 Federer or 2008 Nadal would he have been as dominant as he was last year? No. Doesn't mean he's not playing fantastic - after all 2008 Nadal didn't face this Novak; but to say his lack of GS wins was to do with luck is silly - he had good draws, was no. 3 in the world yet failed to win a slam or even reach a final for nearly years. For a player of his calibre to take another 11 slams to get to a final after winning the Aus Open 2008 was a waste of talent and no one's fault but his own.

The only thing you could say he was unlucky about was to keep falling into Roger's half at the US Open - if he'd been in Nadal's half he'd have got to the final again before 2010....
Even if 2008 Nadal was playing against Nole V.2 in 2011. Nole V.2 would still has the edge in this match up. That's because it's a match up issue for Rafa. After all there is a reason why Rafa hasn't beat this verison of Nole so far.

Nole did beat 2008 Nadal more than once i guess. Rafa is yet to get a win against Nole V.2.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:02 PM   #73
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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I think it's a bit of both - his game improved a bit - mainly his serve got back to normal after the awful 2010 & then his confidence just soared after Davis Cup 2010 and Aus Open 2011. Beating Nadal in those finals also helped his confidence - if he'd lost Indian Wells or Miami I don't think we'd have seen quite the dominance from him - as Nadal might have had a different attitude in the clay finals for example. It's clear that for players like Nadal & Djokovic their mental state and confidence affects them a lot - they've said as much in interviews...

But it's also a bit to do with Fedal declining - Novak had no chance at RG & Wimbledon in 2008 - Fedal (or mainly Rafa at RG) too good, in 2009 he had chances & should have capitalised on Nadal losing early in RG but didn't & in 2010 his serve was terrible - that's not bad luck. If he was facing 2006/2007 Federer or 2008 Nadal would he have been as dominant as he was last year? No. Doesn't mean he's not playing fantastic - after all 2008 Nadal didn't face this Novak; but to say his lack of GS wins was to do with luck is silly - he had good draws, was no. 3 in the world yet failed to win a slam or even reach a final for nearly years. For a player of his calibre to take another 11 slams to get to a final after winning the Aus Open 2008 was a waste of talent and no one's fault but his own.

The only thing you could say he was unlucky about was to keep falling into Roger's half at the US Open - if he'd been in Nadal's half he'd have got to the final again before 2010....

Anyone that has followed Nole going back to beginnings knows that he didn't improve, he always had the same capabilities but just matured and stopped being bothered by outside influences. His forehand/backhand and everything else is the same now as it was 5 years ago. There were lots of things happening outside the court that influenced his decline from 2008-2010 and finally he stopped being bothered by it and concentrated on playing .

He was losing to so many different players and even winning some difficult games because he was not in it mentally. He wasn't losing to Federer/Nadal but to Roddick, Tsonga, Kohlschreiber, old Haas, Safin and many others. It's a wonder and a testament to his talent that he stayed relevant during that time.

Now I don't know how that lull is going to influence him in his future. Obviously those times were lean times and he remembers them and stays hungry or he could be hit by short term success and never win again.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:07 PM   #74
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

Nope. He under performed in 2009 and 2010, playing well only in patches and MM tourneys and went AWOL in Slams. No luck factor here.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:08 PM   #75
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Default Re: Was Djokovic just really unlucky at slams between 2008 and 2010?

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Even if 2008 Nadal was playing against Nole V.2 in 2011. Nole V.2 would still has the edge in this match up. That's because it's a match up issue for Rafa. After all there is a reason why Rafa hasn't beat this verison of Nole so far.

Nole did beat 2008 Nadal more than once i guess. Rafa is yet to get a win against Nole V.2.
Nadal 2011 lost in a final set tiebreak in Miami & could have been 5-2 up in the final set a few weeks ago. Sure it's a match up issue but that doesn't mean Nadal would never win against Novak. At RG, since we're only talking about slams, even Novak 2011 would not win 3 sets at RG against Nadal 2008 - he was a different player confidence wise and was unplayable pretty much at that tournament. At Wimbledon given that Novak 2.0 lost sets to Baghdatis & Tomic I think it's safe to say Nadal, the better grasscourt player, who was on a hot streak all summer, would still have had the edge.

On hardcourts the results would have stayed the same - victories for Djokovic. Nadal will get a win against this Novak at some point - just because Nadal 2011 didn't beat him doesn't mean Nadal 2008 would have had the same issues... The compounded mental impact of all those losses last year cannot be discounted either. As bad as the match up is Nadal can still keep it competitive and it's not a walk in the park for Novak...
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