[masterclass]

Originally Posted by fran70

Great post Masterclass . As you well said, move the pendulum just a bit.

Originally Posted by Matt-TennisFan24

^^^^^ Great post masterclass.

Originally Posted by Slice Winner

+100 Well said.

Thanks Fran70, Matt-TennisFan24, and Slice Winner for your kind words.

Here's a little bit more food for thought if you will permit me to quote myself:

Originally Posted by masterclass

Another bonus for all players in a more balanced game would be a significant reduction in injuries and fatigue since the points would on average tend to be over more quickly than they are now.

I would very much like to see top players like Nole, Rafa, and Andy still performing well at the end of the season. Seemingly endless rallies at more tournaments, due to slower courts and/or balls and the resulting style of play, don't encourage this. If we don't see some kind of change, I wouldn't be surprised if we will either soon see the end of men's 5 set matches or an even greater reduction in tournament participation, or worse.

The wonderful Rod Laver played in 122 matches (106-16) including a 90 game semi-final at the Australian Open during his 1969 Grand Slam year. 3 of the 4 Slams were on the grass courts of the day, where constant volleying was a must because the bounces weren't consistent enough on the grass of that day (Mr. Laver calls today's Wimbledon grass court a "billiard table" in comparison). A superb Novak Djokovic played in 76 matches (70-6) in 2011. After the U.S. Open in early September he participated or was scheduled to do so in only 11 matches (6 wins 4 losses (inc. 1 retirement at Davis Cup) and 1 withdrawal (to Jo-Wilfried Tsonga in Paris-Bercy) ).

We are told that today's players are the best conditioned athletes in history. Given the current conditions, they'd better be.

Regards,
masterclass

[rocketassist]

Indian Wells and Miami in particular are the worst culprits. They're slower than most clay courts, and long points there are just utter joint killers. Speed them up for christ's sake.

I mean Djokovic didn't compete in Monte Carlo after them.

[Sunset of Age]

Originally Posted by masterclass

I would very much like to see top players like Nole, Rafa, and Andy still performing well at the end of the season. Seemingly endless rallies at more tournaments, due to slower courts and/or balls and the resulting style of play, don't encourage this. If we don't see some kind of change, I wouldn't be surprised if we will either soon see the end of men's 5 set matches or an even greater reduction in tournament participation, or worse.

The wonderful Rod Laver played in 122 matches (106-16) including a 90 game semi-final at the Australian Open during his 1969 Grand Slam year. 3 of the 4 Slams were on the grass courts of the day, where constant volleying was a must because the bounces weren't consistent enough on the grass of that day (Mr. Laver calls today's Wimbledon grass court a "billiard table" in comparison). A superb Novak Djokovic played in 76 matches (70-6) in 2011. After the U.S. Open in early September he participated or was scheduled to do so in only 11 matches (6 wins 4 losses (inc. 1 retirement at Davis Cup) and 1 withdrawal (to Jo-Wilfried Tsonga in Paris-Bercy) ).

We are told that today's players are the best conditioned athletes in history. Given the current conditions, they'd better be.

Regards,
masterclass

Excellent stuff, masterclass, well-put.

[Nole Rules]

Originally Posted by rocketassist

Indian Wells and Miami in particular are the worst culprits. They're slower than most clay courts, and long points there are just utter joint killers. Speed them up for christ's sake.

I mean Djokovic didn't compete in Monte Carlo after them.

Have to agree with this.

[scoobs]

Originally Posted by masterclass

I also enjoy the variety of tennis that can be played by the world's top players when the court surface speeds vary. I appreciate the talent it takes for the world's best to be able to adapt and showcase their talents on all courts, or if unable to adapt, to at least specialize on certain types of courts. It used to be a great accomplishment to win the French Open and Wimbledon back-to-back or complete a career grand slam because of the surface differences. However, the trend in the last few years has been to make many of the traditional various court surfaces more alike in playing speed, either via surface change or ball changes.

Many believe the primary cause of this was due to greatly improved racquet and string technology, allowing players to hit with far greater power and accuracy. In around 2001, this led to people like David Lloyd (former British Davis Cup captain) saying that tennis had become almost "unwatchable" at Wimbledon (see here), due to players like Pete Sampras, Goran Ivanišević, and others playing matches that consisted of nothing but hitting extremely fast serves and perhaps a single volley. Now Lloyd actually advocated that the Wimbledon grass be ripped up and replaced with synthetic carpet. Well, suggestions like replacing the grass at Wimbledon probably didn't sit well with the those who value tradition so highly in that event (the suggestion probably amounted to heresy), but at the same time, they felt that they needed to respond in some manner. So it is said that the Wimbledon head groundskeeper, Mr. Eddie Seaward, spoke to many of the professional coaches and asked what they wanted (see here ). Evidently the consensus at the time was that the grass needed to be "slowed down" to make the game less "boring". Mr. Seaward then began to change the surface and indeed over the last few years it has changed; the ball bounces higher and in effect has increased time and space needed to react.

Now with all that said, it seems that the pendulum may have swung a bit too far in the other direction. The game has become homogenized to an extent where almost all players are capable of being "all court players" because all courts play similarly (though one still slides more on a clay court). This appears to be leading to the gradual extinction of the beautiful serve and volley style of play in singles tennis. I'm not lamenting about the late 90's one serve, volley and point over. I'm writing about the serve and volley of the 70's and 80's where the great volleyer and the great baseliner had approximately equal chances to win depending on whether it was their day to excel. One could still see shorter points and longer points, depending on the relative skill of the players involved. Another bonus for all players in a more balanced game would be a significant reduction in injuries and fatigue since the points would on average tend to be over more quickly than they are now.

What would it take to bring back that balance? I think the high tech racquets are here to stay. Perhaps it could be as simple as changing the balls somewhat. Start with playing a faster ball at Wimbledon and a slower ball at the French and see what happens. If that doesn't work, tinker with the surfaces just a bit. The changes need to be small, to avoid the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction.

These things can be done, but either somebody well-placed, a significant number of players, or a significant number of fans (via reduction in the viewing audience) will have to speak up in order for the status quo to change.

Regards,
masterclass

I agree with this. The late 90s on grass was very tedious and there was too much divergence in the 90s between grass and clay such that it was virtually impossible to be any good on both. But it's self-evidently gone too far in the other direction.

In the last 5 years two players have completed career grand slams - exceptional players, yes, but even so. We have a third player who is already only one slam away from the same feat and for who the final slam holds absolutely no fear.

People use "slow courts" as a short-hand to describe a variety of factors that have slowed the game down to the extent that surface homogenisation is a reality, and players can play the same game on all 4 surfaces with minimal adjustment required. This is skewing these career stats. One or more of these factors needs to be tinkered with again to increase game speed diversity a little more.

The problem now is that the current players are completely habituated to more homogenised playing conditions - some of them pushed for it - and would bitterly oppose any moves back in the other direction. This is a shame as I feel that their achievements are being cheapened somewhat by the current status quo.

[Matt01]

Originally Posted by Topspindoctor

Courts should be sped up. Obviously Olderer isn't getting enough free points on serve

+1

[rocketassist]

Agassi won both RG/W and Stich made the finals of both in 90s conditions. Courier also. It wasn't impossible to excel, but it was rare and a lot more difficult.

Originally Posted by Matt01

+1

[Matt01]

Originally Posted by rocketassist

So I guess you also think that e.g. the RG courts should be speed up?

[rocketassist]

Originally Posted by Matt01

So I guess you also think that e.g. the RG courts should be speed up?

No, clay needs slowing down.

[Shinoj]

Grass should be sowed on that Clay..

[rocketassist]

What a surprise, Mattie boy's attempt to paint me as a biased fanboy failed spectacularly.

[Topspindoctor]

Originally Posted by rocketassist

No, clay needs slowing down.

[Matt01]

Originally Posted by rocketassist

What a surprise, Mattie boy's attempt to paint me as a biased fanboy failed spectacularly.

Delusional much? If anything, the posts above have shown that you (had to) agree with me and that it's the OP who is wrong here. I was right as usual.

[MalwareDie]

Originally Posted by Matt01

Delusional much? If anything, the posts above have shown that you (had to) agree with me and that it's the OP who is wrong here. I was right as usual.

..... Do you have reading problems? rocketassist clearly thinks that most surfaces need to be faster (aside from clay), and you agreeing with topspindoctor pretty much means that you disagree with rocketassist because topspindoctor wants everything slower.

[rocketassist]

Originally Posted by Matt01

Delusional much? If anything, the posts above have shown that you (had to) agree with me and that it's the OP who is wrong here. I was right as usual.

No, you think I'm an all-serve carpet fanboy when I'm actually a fan of diversity. Clay should be slowed down and grass should be sped up, and carpet brought back. Makes for more fun tournaments and different styles of play.

So no, you weren't right, you were just attempting to paint me as a fanboy and failing...spectacularly.