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Old 02-14-2012, 07:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: Styles make fights

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Originally Posted by Henry Kaspar View Post
My hypothesis there is that Murray is by instinct a defensive counterpuncher, while Federer, Nadal, Djokovic - different as their styles are - all play brilliant attacking tennis and have superb shot accuracy. To have a chance against them one needs to put THEM on the defensive, Murray rarely does so.
Murray has a winning head to head against Federer, starting way back when Murray was a teenager up until now. Fed is the most aggressive of the three, so your argument doesn't make sense.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Styles make fights

It doesn't make sense because Federer is the only one of the top 4 that plays "brilliant attacking tennis". At beat Rafito is neutral in that sense ane Nole is only slightly more offensive that that.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:36 AM   #18
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Default Re: Styles make fights

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Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
Sure. But not really flat enough to be called flat, no?
His cross-court backhand often looks relatively flat.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: Styles make fights

Nole probably has the flattest backhand in the top 4.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: Styles make fights

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Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
Nole probably has the flattest backhand in the top 4.
I agree.

And while his standard rally-forehand is often loopy enough for a bit of margin, he flattens it out when he senses a good opportunity.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: Styles make fights

^agreed, flattest in the top 4

maybe if roger's bh was flatter he could add extra mph and attacks nadal's bh side to counter nadal's match up advantage
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Styles make fights

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Originally Posted by tennis-hero View Post
^agreed, flattest in the top 4

maybe if roger's bh was flatter he could add extra mph and attacks nadal's bh side to counter nadal's match up advantage
No, he'd just shank more.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: Styles make fights

He'd shank less actually, its the topspin that creates the shanks.

Rogie doesn't hit the backhand flat because he can't, at least not with any consistency.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: Styles make fights

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
No, he'd just shank more.
Most definitely (more errors, anyway). You don't take a shot that's already error-prone and cut the margin even further.

And in the infinite preceding discussions about this matchup, it has many times been noted that it is more a problem of strike-zone than spin selection.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: Styles make fights

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Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
He'd shank less actually, its the topspin that creates the shanks.
All right. He'd hit more errors.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:53 PM   #26
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Default Re: Styles make fights

Basically you need a flat double hander to trouble Nadal. Otherwise his forehand is just too strong. Djokovic's forehand is actually a heavy topspin shot, its his backhand which is flat. Murray had a period about three years ago where his backhand was as flat/consistent as Djokovic's is now. Unfortunately he lost it somehow.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:56 PM   #27
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Default Re: Styles make fights

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
No, he'd just shank more.
i was listening to some tennis commentary and heard something interesting

in an agassi sampras match- if sampras knew he was going to lose a point- instead of getting worn down by agassi he would blast it into the net, into the stands or hit a winner- but would not let agassi have the satisfaction of hitting a winner-

federer's topspin bh doesn't just lose points- it demoralises him, because nadal can just wear him down and hit a winner- giving nadal confidence- and then on the big points federer misses shots he doesn't miss against anyone else

you're right of course, a flat bh with fed would miss everything against nadal probably- although the stars might align once, and that one match, federer would triple bagel nadal
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: Styles make fights

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Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
He'd shank less actually, its the topspin that creates the shanks.

Rogie doesn't hit the backhand flat because he can't, at least not with any consistency.
Oh my god, you called him Rogie on a public forum.

Maybe he should just slice all his backhands.
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:50 PM   #29
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Default Re: Styles make fights

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Originally Posted by green25814 View Post
Basically you need a flat double hander to trouble Nadal. Otherwise his forehand is just too strong. Djokovic's forehand is actually a heavy topspin shot, its his backhand which is flat. Murray had a period about three years ago where his backhand was as flat/consistent as Djokovic's is now. Unfortunately he lost it somehow.
Yeah good point, I think in fact Murray can hit it even flatter than Djoker. Needs to do it more often, particularly against Nadal.
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: Styles make fights

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennis-hero View Post
i was listening to some tennis commentary and heard something interesting

in an agassi sampras match- if sampras knew he was going to lose a point- instead of getting worn down by agassi he would blast it into the net, into the stands or hit a winner- but would not let agassi have the satisfaction of hitting a winner-

federer's topspin bh doesn't just lose points- it demoralises him, because nadal can just wear him down and hit a winner- giving nadal confidence- and then on the big points federer misses shots he doesn't miss against anyone else

you're right of course, a flat bh with fed would miss everything against nadal probably- although the stars might align once, and that one match, federer would triple bagel nadal
Interesting. And good point.
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