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View Poll Results: Why hasn't a male player won a GS for almost 30 years?

Structural problem in french tennis 3 4.84%
Lack of luck 8 12.90%
Just not good enough 18 29.03%
All mental midgets 33 53.23%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-25-2012, 02:27 AM   #61
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Nothing wrong with French tennis, so none of the above. It has lots of depth, maybe no GS winner but that doesn't define a good tennis program. In fact depth is probably a better indication of a strong program than a GS winner - ask the Swiss and Federer.

Stop obsessing about Grand Slams. A country has very little to do with developing a Grand Slam winner - those are few and far between. A GS winner has something special that comes from within not developed by a country.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:00 AM   #62
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Honestly, if someone had told you 5-6 years ago that the Gasquet-Monfils-Tsonga trio would probably never win any Slam and that they would win only 1 M1000 combined, would you have believed it???

In many international tennis forums polls , i remember for example that at the end of 2006, when it was asked who you thought would win the most Slams out of yougnsters like Murray,Djoker,Wawrinka,Gasquet or Baghdatis, the one who was very often leading was Gasquet.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:33 AM   #63
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Everything.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #64
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schu View Post
Nothing wrong with French tennis, so none of the above. It has lots of depth, maybe no GS winner but that doesn't define a good tennis program. In fact depth is probably a better indication of a strong program than a GS winner - ask the Swiss and Federer.

Stop obsessing about Grand Slams. A country has very little to do with developing a Grand Slam winner - those are few and far between. A GS winner has something special that comes from within not developed by a country.
It's not only about Slams: actually,France's resume in M1000s (only 3-4 M1000s won in the last 20 years with 3 being at Bercy at a moment where the top players are either tired either injured either not motivated anymore) is even worse in some sense as there are far more MSs than Slams in a season.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:18 PM   #65
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri27 View Post
Honestly, if someone had told you 5-6 years ago that the Gasquet-Monfils-Tsonga trio would probably never win any Slam and that they would win only 1 M1000 combined, would you have believed it???

In many international tennis forums polls , i remember for example that at the end of 2006, when it was asked who you thought would win the most Slams out of yougnsters like Murray,Djoker,Wawrinka,Gasquet or Baghdatis, the one who was very often leading was Gasquet.
in the end of 2005 yes, in the end of 2006, I guess if the forum polls said that, it's because people just like Gasquet : it's the same as 60% of the people expecting Federer to win the Aus open before the tournament

What I remember from serious people in the end of 2006 was that Murray was the most expected one, Gasquet and Djokovic were close seconds but Djokovic was one year younger.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:27 PM   #66
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

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Originally Posted by duong View Post
in the end of 2005 yes, in the end of 2006, I guess if the forum polls said that, it's because people just like Gasquet : it's the same as 60% of the people expecting Federer to win the Aus open before the tournament

B]What I remember from serious people in the end of 2006 was that Murray was the most expected one[/b], Gasquet and Djokovic were close seconds but Djokovic was one year younger.
Only in the British press
In 2006, Murray was beaten in straight sets by Gasquet in a MS 1/2 final that year and Gasquet won more titles than him.
And obviously, his game impressed more than Murray's game back then.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:45 PM   #67
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Call me crazy but I think Gasquet is way better than Murray. He only lacks a bit of fitness and especially a tennis brain. He plays the best tennis to lose. When he is really offensive throughout a match, he is a top-notch player (see his Gonzales A0 09, Roddick IW 10, Roddick W 07...) This guy is just a tactical and mental nonsense.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:38 PM   #68
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri27 View Post
Only in the British press
In 2006, Murray was beaten in straight sets by Gasquet in a MS 1/2 final that year and Gasquet won more titles than him.
And obviously, his game impressed more than Murray's game back then.
I'm French like you and I perfectly remember arguings back then.

Murray was one year younger and had already impressed a lot, Gasquet's lacks were already visible (actually I had seen them already in the beginning of 2005 when he was so much hyped).

PS : there's something I don't understand about you Gasquetfans : when I'm a fan of a guy, I just like him, I have no wish to say that he's very good but he has no brain, etc, which is very insulting to say imo : what are you a fan of, a human being or a talented machine ? Why don't you respect your guy ?

Gasquet himself thinks that his potential was not as good as it was praised, recently he said how envious he was of another player's body, I guess it was Nadal, that Fed was from another planet, etc ... Gasquet has suffered a lot from praises like yours ... which he actually believes they're wrong, and he's right for that imo (well, with a lot more willingness, he could have been a bit better but not that much).

Also I think many of you are young, because when I read what Gasquet fans think about Leconte
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:52 PM   #69
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Sorry but with my very low level of english I can’t correctly translate, precisely, what I just wrote. It would take me some hours. And as the majority contributor on this topic is french. (maybe I will translate progressively... et peut être qu'une âme charitable pourra m'aider)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yuri27 View Post
It's not only about Slams: actually,France's resume in M1000s (only 3-4 M1000s won in the last 20 years with 3 being at Bercy at a moment where the top players are either tired either injured either not motivated anymore) is even worse in some sense as there are far more MSs than Slams in a season.
+1
En effet, les joueurs français sont incapables de gagner des G.S. mais aussi des MastersSeries (Bercy n’est pas vraiment un MastersSeries, tous les ans les meilleurs joueurs qui le jouent et qui ont vraiment l’envie de le gagner sont très peu nombreux par rapport aux autres masters series, c’est la fin de saison et surtout c’est juste avant le "MasterFinal" (y a aussi la finale de Coupe Davis)).

Le tennis français est celui qui a le plus de profondeur (avec l’Espagne) mais heureusement... car depuis 20 ans, c’est celui qui de très loin investie le plus dans la formation, l’encadrement, le suivie, des joueurs.
Et le principal objectif de tous ces investissement de la FFT et plus recemment de certains gros mécènes, c’est de gagner des Grand-Chelems (en particulier Roland Garros)... et en second d’avoir un joueur jouant la 1ère place mondial (et absolument pas d’avoir 10 joueurs entre la 20ème place et la 100ème).
Bilan, beaucoup de moyen pour ne pas atteindre les objectifs.

I think it’s a Cultural problem in french tennis.

En france, il n'y a pas une compréhension pertinente du tennis... La manière dont les entraineurs (et donc les joueurs) analyse les matchs de tennis est vraiment mauvaise. Ils se basent, focalisent, voir font un blocage, sur des aspects faux, fictif, et absolument pas constructif (entre autre la tactique/notion du "coup juste"... y a aussi une obsession des points importants, et quelques autres trucs encore).
Aussi le tennis français fonctionne beaucoup trop en vase clos.
Il a du mal à évoluer. Une mentalité très peu ouverte, très peu "progressiste", etc. (d’ailleurs, entre autre, il y a encore pas si longtemps certains des "penseurs écouté/officiel" du tennis français avait encore en grande partie la même approche, analyse, conception, du tennis de très haut niveau, que pour ce qu’il se faisait dans les 80’s... et il en subsiste encore quelques notes par ci par là...)

Après, actuellement certain de ces aspects sont entrain de changer...


Le cas Gasquet est un cuisant échec pour le tennis français (fédéral et privé)... (jamais un joueur de 15 ans n’a été aussi fort et complet tennistiquement que Gasquet... (et d’ailleurs on peut remarquer qu’avant ses 15ans la FFT n’avait jamais influé directement, avec un de ses hommes, sur sa formation, il n’y avait eu que ses parents (son père surtout)) et depuis beaucoup de moyen ont été mis sur ce joueur sans aucun résultats, cela fait même 7ans qu’il stagne tennistiquement)

Y aussi un truc assez marrant (et que je trouve symptomatique) avec le tennis français c’est qu’alors qu’ils sont avant tout formés et entrainés sur terre battue (avec une grosse insistance sur son aspect tactique), la meilleur surface des meilleurs joueurs français c’est le gazon... Et même si la terre battue n’est pas une surface faible pour l’ensemble des meilleurs joueurs français, c’est pour certain leur moins bonnes surfaces et ils sont au moins aussi fort sur tous les autres surfaces.

Autre truc à noter, c’est qu’en France on idolâtre absolument Agassi, mais on n’a absolument pas assimilé son énorme apport au tennis. (cela me fait penser qu'à côté Sampras n’a rien apporté de vraiment nouveau au tennis, et autres remarques Federer est d’une certaine manière une synthèse du meilleur de Sampras avec le meilleur d’Agassi (et formé en bonne part sur terre battue), pour continuer : Djokovic est une sorte de SuperAgassi (plus grand, plus souple, plus vite, plus endurant), quand à Nadal c’est une autre histoire son approche du tennis est assez neuve (à la limite on peut dire qu’à la base Nadal c’est un mix entre Vilas/Borg/Connors/Muster), entre autre elle exploite très bien les dernières évolution du matériel (ainsi que l’évolution des balles et des surfaces de jeu... mais là c'est surtout les balles/surfaces qui se sont adaptés pour ce type de jeu...), après il faut noter que ces 5 dernières années Nadal "s’agassise"...).

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Old 01-25-2012, 02:58 PM   #70
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
PS : there's something I don't understand about you Gasquetfans : when I'm a fan of a guy, I just like him, I have no wish to say that he's very good but he has no brain, etc, which is very insulting to say imo : what are you a fan of, a human being or a talented machine ? Why don't you respect your guy ?
Gasquet himself thinks that his potential was not as good as it was praised, recently he said how envious he was of another player's body, I guess it was Nadal, that Fed was from another planet, etc ... Gasquet has suffered a lot from praises like yours ... which he actually believes they're wrong, and he's right for that imo (well, with a lot more willingness, he could have been a bit better but not that much).
You are so wrong, sorry to say that but that's the truth.
You can love a tennis player and notice his weaknesses (no tennis brain: a tactical headcase about Gasquet for instance).
Gasquet says he is not that good to avoid the pressure. He is that good, all specialists agree on this.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:04 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grassquet View Post
You are so wrong, sorry to say that but that's the truth.
You can love a tennis player and notice his weaknesses (no tennis brain: a tactical headcase about Gasquet for instance).
Gasquet says he is not that good to avoid the pressure. He is that good, all specialists agree on this.
The way you speak about Gasquet's brain it sounds more than "tennis brain" : it sounds like "brain".

I have no problems to love a player with tennis weaknesses as I don't judge people from their skills, but it's hard for me not to respect him as a human.

Anyway let's finish it, it's something I will never understand about you Gasquetfans, and I know that what I say you completely dislike.

More importantly, I think Gasquet himself would prefer you to think another way.

As for "all specialists think this" it's massive brainwashing
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:43 PM   #72
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
Gasquet himself thinks that his potential was not as good as it was praised
There is the whole problem with Gasquet.
The guy beat peak Federer at 18 blastering him with winners (and almost beat the clay GOAT in that same tournament), beat Roddick(who was one of the top 3 grass court player back then) at Wimbledon 1/4 final, made the TMC finishing at 7 place and was arguably one of the most if not the most precocious player ever (second youngest world junior champion ever, youngest ever to win a MS match)...........and despite that, he wants to convince us that he can't do better than the poor play he's showed in the last few months??
Talk about taking the pressure off from himself......

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Old 01-25-2012, 03:49 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorma View Post
Sorry but with my very low level of english I can’t correctly translate, precisely, what I just wrote. It would take me some hours. And as the majority contributor on this topic is french. (maybe I will translate progressively... et peut être qu'une âme charitable pourra m'aider)

+1
En effet, les joueurs français sont incapables de gagner des G.S. mais aussi des MastersSeries (Bercy n’est pas vraiment un MastersSeries, tous les ans les meilleurs joueurs qui le jouent et qui ont vraiment l’envie de le gagner sont très peu nombreux par rapport aux autres masters series, c’est la fin de saison et surtout c’est juste avant le "MasterFinal" (y a aussi la finale de Coupe Davis)).

Le tennis français est celui qui a le plus de profondeur (avec l’Espagne) mais heureusement... car depuis 20 ans, c’est celui qui de très loin investie le plus dans la formation, l’encadrement, le suivie, des joueurs.
Et le principal objectif de tous ces investissement de la FFT et plus recemment de certains gros mécènes, c’est de gagner des Grand-Chelems (en particulier Roland Garros)... et en second d’avoir un joueur jouant la 1ère place mondial (et absolument pas d’avoir 10 joueurs entre la 20ème place et la 100ème).
Bilan, beaucoup de moyen pour ne pas atteindre les objectifs.

I think it’s a Cultural problem in french tennis.

En france, il n'y a pas une compréhension pertinente du tennis... La manière dont les entraineurs (et donc les joueurs) analyse les matchs de tennis est vraiment mauvaise. Ils se basent, focalisent, voir font un blocage, sur des aspects faux, fictif, et absolument pas constructif (entre autre la tactique/notion du "coup juste"... y a aussi une obsession des points importants, et quelques autres trucs encore).
Aussi le tennis français fonctionne beaucoup trop en vase clos.
Il a du mal à évoluer. Une mentalité très peu ouverte, très peu "progressiste", etc. (d’ailleurs, entre autre, il y a encore pas si longtemps certains des "penseurs écouté/officiel" du tennis français avait encore en grande partie la même approche, analyse, conception, du tennis de très haut niveau, que pour ce qu’il se faisait dans les 80’s... et il en subsiste encore quelques notes par ci par là...)

Après, actuellement certain de ces aspects sont entrain de changer...


Le cas Gasquet est un cuisant échec pour le tennis français (fédéral et privé)... (jamais un joueur de 15 ans n’a été aussi fort et complet tennistiquement que Gasquet... (et d’ailleurs on peut remarquer qu’avant ses 15ans la FFT n’avait jamais influé directement, avec un de ses hommes, sur sa formation, il n’y avait eu que ses parents (son père surtout)) et depuis beaucoup de moyen ont été mis sur ce joueur sans aucun résultats, cela fait même 7ans qu’il stagne tennistiquement)

Y aussi un truc assez marrant (et que je trouve symptomatique) avec le tennis français c’est qu’alors qu’ils sont avant tout formés et entrainés sur terre battue (avec une grosse insistance sur son aspect tactique), la meilleur surface des meilleurs joueurs français c’est le gazon... Et même si la terre battue n’est pas une surface faible pour l’ensemble des meilleurs joueurs français, c’est pour certain leur moins bonnes surfaces et ils sont au moins aussi fort sur tous les autres surfaces.

Autre truc à noter, c’est qu’en France on idolâtre absolument Agassi, mais on n’a absolument pas assimilé son énorme apport au tennis. (cela me fait penser qu'à côté Sampras n’a rien apporté de vraiment nouveau au tennis, et autres remarques Federer est d’une certaine manière une synthèse du meilleur de Sampras avec le meilleur d’Agassi (et formé en bonne part sur terre battue), pour continuer : Djokovic est une sorte de SuperAgassi (plus grand, plus souple, plus vite, plus endurant), quand à Nadal c’est une autre histoire son approche du tennis est assez neuve (à la limite on peut dire qu’à la base Nadal c’est un mix entre Vilas/Borg/Connors/Muster), entre autre elle exploite très bien les dernières évolution du matériel (ainsi que l’évolution des balles et des surfaces de jeu... mais là c'est surtout les balles/surfaces qui se sont adaptés pour ce type de jeu...), après il faut noter que ces 5 dernières années Nadal "s’agassise"...).
Sorry but with my very low level of english I can’t correctly translate, precisely, what I just wrote. It would take me some hours. And as the majority contributor on this topic is french. (maybe I will translate progressively… and perhaps a charitable soul will help me.)

+1
It’s true, French players are incapable of winning, not just Grand Slams but also Masters Series (Bercy isn’t really a Masters Series, through the years, the best players who play the tournament and really want to win it are very few compared with other MS, it’s the end of the season and above all it’s just before the ATP World Tour Finals (there is also the final of the Davis Cup)).

French tennis has the greatest depth (along with Spain) only by chance… because for the last 20 years, it has been very far from being the country that has invested most in the coaching, supervision and development of players. And the principal goal of all the investment by the FFT and more recently by a few large sponsors has been to win Grand Slams (especially Roland Garros) … and secondly to have the number one player in the World (and absolutely not to have 10 players ranked 20th to 100th).

Bottom line, a lot of spending for achieving not very much.

I think it’s a Cultural problem in french tennis.

In France, there is no understanding of tennis… The way coaches (and therefore players) analyse tennis matches is truly wrong. They start from, focus on, and even make an obstacle, out of the wrong, illusory, and totally unconstructive aspects of the game (among others tactics … there is also an obsession with “big points”, and a few other things besides).

In this way, French tennis operates too much in a vacuum.

It has trouble evolving. A mentality that is not very open-minded, not very “progressive”, etc. (besides, until not long ago some of the “official/most listened to experts” of French tennis had to a large extent the same approach, analysis, and ideas about high-level tennis as that which existed in the 80s … and there are still several echos of that here and there.)

After that, currently some of these things are changing.

The case of Gasquet is a stinging failure for French tennis (public and private) … (never has someone of 15 been such a strong and complete player “tennistically” as Gasquet … (and besides one could note that before he was 15, the FFT had never directly influenced his development, it was only his relatives (his father above all) and since then a lot of resources have been put into this player without any result, that makes 7 years that he has stagnated “tennistically”)

One other strange thing (that I find symptomatic) about french tennis is that while they are all brought up and coached on clay (with this excessive concentration on the tactical side), the best surface of the better players is grass… And even if clay is not exactly a weakness of the better players, it is for some of them their weakest surface and they are at least as strong on all the other surfaces.

Another thing to note is that in France people completely idolize Agassi, but we have completely failed to learn from his huge contribution to tennis. (This reminds me that by comparison Sampras brought nothing really new to tennis, and others say that Federer is in a way a combination of the best of Sampras and the best of Agassi (and brought up to a great extent on clay), to continue: Djokovic is a kind of Super-Agassi (taller, more flexible, quicker, with better stamina), as for Nadal it’s another story, his approach to tennis is quite new (one could almost say that fundamentally Nadal is a mixture of Vilas, Borg, Connors and Muster), among other things his game makes good use of the latest developments in equipment (as well as changes to the type of balls used and to surfaces that are adapted to this type of game… but there again it is mostly because the balls and surfaces are adapted to his game…) after that it is worth mentioning that for the last five years Nadal has been “Agassizing” himself.).

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Old 01-25-2012, 04:23 PM   #74
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

They care more about hiting the ball pretty than actually winning.
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Federer will fall
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:26 PM   #75
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Default Re: What's the problem with french tennis??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everko View Post
They care more about hiting the ball pretty than actually winning.
That description certainly fits the ballbashing Tsonga, doesn't it?
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