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View Poll Results: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the Austra

Yes – bigotry is simply unacceptable 37 41.57%
No – Court has the freedom of expression 52 58.43%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-21-2011, 06:09 PM   #136
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

With all due respect, Sophocles, this world you are describing exists only in theory - in the pages of philosophy textbooks; this is not reality and never will be.

The reality is people are affected by words and bullying; younger people hear words and see no reaction (because everyone is "not dignifying it with a response" as you'd have people do) and they assume such hateful attitudes are normal and acceptable, and so it continues. Someone yells bigoted insults at another person in the street and everyone pulls up their collar and quickens their step and pretends not to notice so they don't have to do anything about it.

Then it goes from words to little gestures and acts of omission: a couple is ignored in a restaurant for 40 minutes while the staff serve people who arrived much later than them -- "oh, it was an oversight, we're just busy..."even though the waitstaff are sneering and snickering openly. There are lots of such ways you can discriminate against people without doing anything overt that they can prove, and then just insist that the other party is paranoid. And then you pair that with people being allowed to say whatever they want and you wonder why young people feel bullied and like they have no options, and take their own lives.

Margaret Court has the right to voice her opinion but she does not have 'the right to be honoured.' That's not a right. Is it bullying to "out" people with prejudiced hateful views and subject them to societal scorn?? Yes, it is, but so what? Turnabout is fair play. Think of all the centuries that blacks, Jews (look up the origin of the term "ghetto" sometime), gays, even women, could be openly scorned with no right of redress. So now it's the bigots' turn to be bullied. It'd be nice if we as a species could give up bullying altogether, but looking at thousands of years of human history, this doesn't seem likely.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:06 PM   #137
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
No, no, no & NO. What are "civil rights" other than a political concept? Whatever else it may be, it simplly is not evil to argue that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry.
They are a political concept just like the ones who state black people or woman can vote.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:12 PM   #138
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

@ Goolagong Arena!





P.S. Am I the only one whose gut is telling them that Margaret Court has spent her entire life repressing her bisexual desires?
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:13 PM   #139
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

OK this is a never ending debate - i'll just finish by saying - you jeopardise your civil rights when you ask for someone to be stripped of theirs!

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Old 12-21-2011, 07:36 PM   #140
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

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Originally Posted by tennis2tennis View Post
Civil rights go beyond traditional political concepts...this isn't left versus right...this is about your humanity ...about your right to exist as equals ironically court is exercising her civil right of freedom of speech while simultaneously asking for others to be stripped of theirs
That is very well said.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:50 PM   #141
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

Just imagine if Court and Navratilova were active players today? The WTA would be very, very interesting. You could feel the tension on court from miles away. This would be the greatest rivalry in tennis.
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Old 12-21-2011, 07:59 PM   #142
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

Court will always have freedom of speech in Australia, presumably. Which is great. She can say nutty stuff like this if she wants.

BUT... freedom of speech doesn't mean "freedom from criticism." Everyone else has the right to condemn her views. Actions and words have consequences, and most of the developed world has gotten around to deciding, by some kind of blurry, overall concensus, that "it's okay to be gay." They probably haven't all gotten around to deciding it okay to be gay and married, but the fact remains that if you open your mouth about a controversial subject, you know what response you're gonna get. And if the Aussie tennis people decided they wanted to rename their arena, they have every right to do that, because it's their private property. That isn't affecting her right to freedom of speech one bit. Personally, I wouldn't rename the arena unless this escalated a lot. But a statement from the relevant authorities would be nice. Of course that might escalate things and force them to rename it, if she comes out with some more batshit stuff... but that's her right, and their right to feel the need to do whatever.

In case it hasn't already been said, I'll point out that Margaret Court ought to feel lucky that she has the right to vote as a woman. She's also lucky to have been allowed to compete in professional sport/earn money and have the right to own land, rather than be the property of a man. You could find stuff in the Bible that suggests she shouldn't have any of these rights. It's interesting how she ignores those parts of the Bible when it suits her, but refuses to let go of the bits about sodomy.

But it's hard to expect rational thought from somebody with a delusional mental illness. Albeit, a socially acceptable one.
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:32 PM   #143
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennis2tennis View Post
Why are players tested and punished for use of recreational drugs?

Techinically they're not cheating, its their personal lives! Because what you do outside of a tennis court can bring the sport into disrepute! People don't just say Maragret Court is a homphobe or a racist ...etc they say Maragret Court the Australian tennis player is a homphobe or a racist
That argument is flawed because drug testing is in direct link to the possible validity of one's athletic achievement in which the sport wants to be drug-free. And which players agree to adhere to, knowing that basically drug testing means they are presumed guilty if or until the test proves the counter.

People can agree to disagree and proceed as they see acceptable.
And changing hearts and minds take time which is a foreign concept in an instant modern society. And I will say that returning venom with venom will make any fight that much harder.


In regards to BJK, Navratilova, & Stubbs, it was good and wise to refute the comments without nastiness whether warranted or not.
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Old 12-21-2011, 10:04 PM   #144
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

The court was named for her because of her achievements in Tennis so I think her name should remain for that court.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:19 PM   #145
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

Interesting to see the discrepancy between the results of this poll and the one on tennisforum.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:28 PM   #146
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

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Originally Posted by Consigliere View Post
Interesting to see the discrepancy between the results of this poll and the one on tennisforum.
Probably because TF members are 50% gay, 45% girls who love the gays. MTF has a larger straight male userbase, they're more inclined to be less concerned with stuff like this, sadly.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:13 AM   #147
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

Yeah, change the name. No reason why players, coaches, fans especially those who are LGBT should have to be associated with this horseshit.

The people arguing that this is anti free-speech or that it shouldn't be political. That argument in itself is political. Either way, what do you care? It doesn't bother you. So let the people who are pissed off have the 'right' to complain and change things, in the same way that Margaret Court had a platform as a public figure to express her views, according to her 'right', right?

Tennis is not bigger than politics or bigotry. Never will be.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:18 AM   #148
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

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Originally Posted by Pirata. View Post
Probably because TF members are 50% gay, 45% girls who love the gays. MTF has a larger straight male userbase, they're more inclined to be less concerned with stuff like this, sadly.
And I thought MTF had a lot of gays.
How many gay girls on TF?
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:21 AM   #149
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

People are not perfect, despite the impression one might have of reading some people's post in here. What Margaret said was dead wrong and she should be criticized for it. Period.

However, can you imagine if we start stripping off names of places because the persons that were honored with it showed some flaws of carachter?! Walk around in your city and research the lifes of the guys that have places, streets and etc named after them. Actually, I ask the following question: name important figures of the past that you cannot find some skelletons in their closets.
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Old 12-22-2011, 12:33 AM   #150
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Default Re: Should Tennis Australia change the name of the Margaret Court show court @ the AO

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Originally Posted by fmolinari2005 View Post
People are not perfect, despite the impression one might have of reading some people's post in here. What Margaret said was dead wrong and she should be criticized for it. Period.

However, can you imagine if we start stripping off names of places because the persons that were honored with it showed some flaws of carachter?! Walk around in your city and research the lifes of the guys that have places, streets and etc named after them. Actually, I ask the following question: name important figures of the past that you cannot find some skelletons in their closets.
This is precisely the reason why places should only be named after dead people, a few years after their deaths, so that all the relevant facts about the person to be honoured would be known to the people deciding.

Of course they would all have flaws, but they would be known and determined whether they were imporatant enough to merit a veto. This would save a lot of embarrasment. I'm sure Tennis Australia cannot be pleased about this turn of events, whatever their views on homosexuality and gay marriage. Notoriety and controversy are never welcome.
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