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Old 12-15-2011, 02:48 PM   #61
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by abollo View Post
What about the ATP? They are the same players!!!
In ATP top players plays GS, MS + few other events (20-25 in total), while in TT they play 35-40 tournaments, that kind of proves that tournaments in TT are not that different like they are in ATP.

I agree that TT requires some kowledge, people who know more players, who can estimate the circumstances better make more correct guesses but it still includes much more luck than ATP. Actually, there was a discussion about that in TT Rules Thread at the end of 2008.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:52 PM   #62
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavnich77 View Post
The Board are currently collating all the opinions raised in this thread on each point and polls will be raised for the areas where it appears change might be required.
Can I please enquire as to how it’s decided upon which area is chosen for change? eg. the most people to mention the same point or something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavnich77 View Post
This thread is used as a discussion thread for anything that people might want changing in the game. It is used to put forward proposals, ideas and suggestions which people can debate and as a way of finding out if a particular idea has any support within the TT community or to discuss arguments for and against any particular ideas. The last few years this thread has been a lot quieter than the first few years and we (the board) are currently discussing whether this is because most of the major flaws have been ironed out and there’s not many major changes required or whether because the Board is a lot quieter in the off-season now and whether we should be looking at opening the thread earlier during the season with any changes still implemented the following season.
Why isn’t this put in the first post to start with?. A lot of these things are geared to people who know what’s what – for those of us who don’t it’s a struggle to get information, hence numerous posts as the above asking these questions. The full info put in post one like with a TT event would stop creating confusion and would make things clear to all and sundry.

It’s the same thing with TT managing – it’s an ordeal to get the info whereas if you have a simple first posting any newcomer or potential volunteer can see the procedures. You (not you personally but as a group ) are struggling for volunteers yet you seem to do very little to make it clear for potential newcomers to find out information.

I mean I’ve done that idiot guide to try and make things 100% clear for any future volunteers who can see step by step what to do - which seems to be more the biggest ever leap forward on this issue as far as I can see, I just cannot understand why for the life of me nobody has not even thought of doing that in however many years TT’s been going. I have been more than happy to do it off my own back to put something back into a game I love but surely it shouldn’t really have come to a quiet newcomer (OK OK occasionally mouthy ) like me who’s only bothered to participate in anything other than sending picks for TT a very short time ago to decide to do that over endless people around with joint countless years more ‘experience’ of playing/hosting the game – why’s it not been made easier and more welcoming for new volunteers in the past??

There’s even a thread somewhere where there’s a discussion over what constitutes foul language. Surely every one of us knows what constitutes bad language. Whilst of course there has to be rules for a game that are stuck to 100%, does an atmosphere of rules rules rules entice people over what should be fun fun fun?

Also, I think it’d be nice to know what ‘The Board’ does, eg who you all are, what your aims are, what you do, etc, etc, rather than just appear as the mythical name ‘The Board’. I’m sure there’s a lot of people who haven’t had personal dealings with you who wouldn’t have any idea.

Just a few more issues for the melting pot
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:54 PM   #63
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

I started a Manager's Guide last year but didn't get around to finishing it.

If you've done one already I'd be happy to review it and see if it covers the rules and processes correctly
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:10 PM   #64
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
I started a Manager's Guide last year but didn't get around to finishing it.

If you've done one already I'd be happy to review it and see if it covers the rules and processes correctly
Well I've done it - its the procedures of hosting from start to finish with screen-caps - and uploaded it to my webpage - and have given Gav the link a few weeks ago, he's passed it on to the rest of the bunch so that they can all download/look and proof read it. I've only hosted the one event so far so they can just review it to see if there were any errors or omissions.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:13 PM   #65
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

If you want to send me the link I will review it - I was going to finish mine this off-season but no point in duplicating effort.
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:54 AM   #66
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
If you want to send me the link I will review it - I was going to finish mine this off-season but no point in duplicating effort.
Sure, I'm guessing an extra voice of input can't do any harm.

I have sent it originally to Gav on 2nd December, who's forwarded it on to other members of the board and they're all going to be adding or correcting any bits of it and answering some points that I asked to making unclear things clear.

I'm guessing it's best for you to also give me any feedback and I'll change it on my master copy in consultation with Gav when I've heard back from him on this too ???????
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Old 12-18-2011, 01:54 PM   #67
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

I'm a little late to the game, but reading the first page, I noticed an interesting statement regarding the SR shootout:

Quote:
Originally Posted by abollo View Post
- TB rules (Shootout/PTS, etc)
I would prefer to cancel the shootour rule and use the TB system like in TF. I think a winner of the match should be decided by who was better. Now we have that if A posted the OOP I would have won if B posted it I would have lost. The 2/1 2/0 rule in TF makes more sense. If still tied then the PTS should be considered. However I think if a match ends 63 64 and I have it 63 64 and another 64 63 I should win. I think it actually makes a difference if you hit the exact score in the exact set or not. The GD rule is fine as it is.
Now I've never played anything on TF and only glanced at it a few times here and there, but the idea of unfairness with the SR shootout seems valid. I think this could be rectified by having a standard procedure for arranging the OOP. If the SRs are arranged by player rankings (ie. the two players with the closest rankings would be SR1, next closest SR2, etc) this would standardize the OOP. If this were the rule, then players would not have to wait for the OOP to be posted to send their picks; they could simply view the ATP rankings and arrange the OOP themselves before sending. This would also make it easier if a manager needed to get someone else to post the OOP; everyone would know what is to be expected.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:53 PM   #68
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

When are we gonna have decisions here considering Wildcards, SR Shootout vs TB shootout, rewards for managers or Ranking System???

Just asking, no pressure
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:42 PM   #69
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

My last thoughts in this thread I'll bother you with. I agree with bandtree there should be a standard for the shootout so that the example I mentioned previously doesn't happen. I like the idea of the ranking.
>>>
I stopped managing in August because that I felt I won't be able to post diffs on time every day in every tournament I manage. I don't have any problems managing a tournament every week, but players then have to be patient and be able to accept that diffs could come 2 or 3 hours late. I will try to start managing again in 2012, but players should then be a bit patient with the diffs.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:09 PM   #70
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Yeah no problem abollo
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:43 PM   #71
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

- LL rule on R1 matches where neither player send picks: should the 2nd round spot go directly to the LL? Current rule: the player who sends late picks first wins the match.

There should be a Lucky Loser

- Two-day round (mostly for increased qualifying draws): Should a LL replace a player/team who has a bye to the second round but doesn't send picks for any of the rounds?

Yes. But then it difficult for managers, because they will receive a lot of picks. So I don´t know.


- Top 30 players: should they be eligible to get SEs into CHs?
No

- Should there be any incentives for managers (the number of managers is decreasing each year)? If yes, any suggestions?

No. TT needs more managers, but I think they doesn´t need any incentives. For example I´m going to managing my first tournament in January 2012, because I want. If be any incentives for manager, will be more, but this managers they are not going be good managers, because they are going managing only because the “prizes”. And managers should do it for love of the game.


- Early deadlines: should the current rule be changed?
Yes

- Code of conduct: any updates/changes? What should be done to the 'Foul language' item?

Yes, they should be suspended.

- Alternate placements - matches in which neither player sent & the first alternate is better ranked than other players whose opponents didn't send picks: where should the next alternate be placed - against the first alternate or the lowest ranked player who entered directly?
Against the first alternate.

- Winston-Salem (64-player tournament which precedes the USO): should it start on Sunday (current rule) or Monday (which would be a two-day round)?
Sunday

Challengers WTF topics (if the event is actually going to be played next year ):

- WTF Challengers - any changes to the points breakdown?


No

- WTF Challengers & WTF - should players be allowed to play both competitions?

No


- WTF Challengers - which should be the deadline for qualifications?

2 weeks before tournament

- 'Future' tournaments instead of increased QDs?

Future should be used only when we don't have challengers, like week 2 and 3 in January! Those matches are really hard to predict! (I agree with Kingroger)


- One category for all challenger (120 pt breakdown)?
No!

- Anything you wish to discuss
WC!
I think it´s very important to players with a low ranking.
Making such a text that reflects the reason should be given a Wildcard. And who had the best text received the WC.
Estoril Open ATP 250 (one WC for a great player, not enrolled in the tournament, for a Portuguese and a player with a low ranking)
In the text shall bear the nationality and the reason you want the WC.
The British nationality, has no privileges, because what counts is not whether the text is well written grammatically, but the reasons.
But it´s for all tournaments (GS, ATP 1000,500,250 and CH)
Maximum 3 WC's per season and 3 WC spots per tournament....
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:37 PM   #72
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Great Post lolada!
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:41 PM   #73
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandtree View Post
I'm a little late to the game, but reading the first page, I noticed an interesting statement regarding the SR shootout:



Now I've never played anything on TF and only glanced at it a few times here and there, but the idea of unfairness with the SR shootout seems valid. I think this could be rectified by having a standard procedure for arranging the OOP. If the SRs are arranged by player rankings (ie. the two players with the closest rankings would be SR1, next closest SR2, etc) this would standardize the OOP. If this were the rule, then players would not have to wait for the OOP to be posted to send their picks; they could simply view the ATP rankings and arrange the OOP themselves before sending. This would also make it easier if a manager needed to get someone else to post the OOP; everyone would know what is to be expected.
It's an interesting idea to standardise the order of the OOP but I think it would increase the burden on the managers if they have to work out the rankings differential of the players before posting the OOP especially in a GS where there are 64 matches in the first round.
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:50 PM   #74
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingroger View Post
When are we gonna have decisions here considering Wildcards, SR Shootout vs TB shootout, rewards for managers or Ranking System???

Just asking, no pressure
There'll be some polls going up in the next few days
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:52 PM   #75
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavnich77 View Post
It's an interesting idea to standardise the order of the OOP but I think it would increase the burden on the managers if they have to work out the rankings differential of the players before posting the OOP especially in a GS where there are 64 matches in the first round.
This would be further complicated by clay and grass court specialists whose rank would not necessarily correspond in an OOP to the expected level of a 75 vs. 77 match up for example. Nor would it take into account players playing at home and other factors that sometime make ranking irrevelant.
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