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Old 12-07-2011, 09:56 AM   #31
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickmartins View Post
I'm 100% against any incentives for managers. First, if someone's only managing because of the incentive, that's not the kind of manager I'd like to see on TT to start with. Second, people who don't have time to manage (due to work, school, etc) would feel like they cannot have the "full experience" of the game, just because they will never have access to these benefits from managing. You're effectively creating two classes of players and giving special treatment to one of those.
The bourgeoisie managers/players class and the proletariat - simple players class.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:38 AM   #32
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

I'll start a communist campaign if that happens.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:01 PM   #33
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

How do all these issues and points get decided on - is it a vote at the end or something?
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:09 PM   #34
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

- Winston-Salem (64-player tournament which precedes the USO): should it start on Sunday (current rule) or Monday (which would be a two-day round)?

Monday as every other tournament. All 1-week tournaments should have a monday start
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:39 PM   #35
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Yeah the 10% was definitely a better idea, the WTF becomes a WTF of managers not of players if the field is 2/3 managers. I'd be pretty pissed off if I was the #9 player in the world (oh wait I am) and I didn't get to play the WTF but 16 managers did who could be ranked somewhere in the 200s Something like that could really be the death of TT because the thing about the WTF is that it is an elite tournament that not everyone can get in, you have to play your way in, and this in my opinion lowers the level of the tournament and completely ruins the entire point of it that it is for the top ranked players only I really don't want to have to play someone ranked 96 in the WTF.. that's just not the point of it. I can do that playing Delray Beach

I appreciate the effort you put into explaining out your position, because now I'm informed enough to say I am really not a fan of it at all. I think ruining the WTF goes a little bit too far. And I agree with those who say it would create a player class and a manager class.

For the record, I'm totally against manager incentives also, mainly because I think there's no fair way to create any that doesn't penalize people for not having the time to do it. I just wanted to hear some ideas from the people who support it I think the reason people don't manage is not because they don't want to, or they don't care about TT, but more so because of the time you need to be able to manage a tournament. The way to get more managers is to somehow create a different culture in TT where you won't be crucified if you can't post differences on time (or maybe not at all). I think players have been spoiled by some quality managers in the past who gave more of their time than they should have and now they expect all managers to be sitting by their computers to answer "what if" scenarios or to update or post commentary and awards. That all takes a lot of time.. but if the expectation is to create a draw, receive picks, and post scores at the end of the day... that's a lot more feasible as a time requirement I think. When TT first started the thread was full of "Hey Deathless Mortal, are you on? Lets exchange picks" and not "GOSH where is this manager? DIFFS? DIFFS? DIFFS?" I think differences are a luxury not a necessity Maybe if managers didn't feel they had to be accessible all the time or stuck to their computer all day, it could lead to some people coming back. Hell, if my tournaments knew that my time was limited and to expect bare minimum management, maybe I'd come back myself.
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:27 PM   #36
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

I think that if managers start working on a very different way... like some will provide diff and others not because they don't have time, then players will start picking tournaments according to the managers they like (which is
already happening a bit)...

Personaly i think that favouring the managers would decrease the quality of managing because it wouldn't work for good managers... anyway, if it is necessary to do something I would suggest something small... like 1 (or x) points per one managed tournament (count those points as 19th tournament and they would be valid till the end of calendar year, as it would make it easier to count them).
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:18 AM   #37
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

I plan to manage 1 or 2 tournaments per month and I don't want any reward. I just want players to appreciate all managers and have fun!

Also I think all the managers have a good relationship with each other and can help out with posting OOPs and other things.
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Old 12-08-2011, 05:54 AM   #38
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by savesthedizzle View Post
Yeah the 10% was definitely a better idea, the WTF becomes a WTF of managers not of players if the field is 2/3 managers. I'd be pretty pissed off if I was the #9 player in the world (oh wait I am) and I didn't get to play the WTF but 16 managers did who could be ranked somewhere in the 200s Something like that could really be the death of TT because the thing about the WTF is that it is an elite tournament that not everyone can get in, you have to play your way in, and this in my opinion lowers the level of the tournament and completely ruins the entire point of it that it is for the top ranked players only I really don't want to have to play someone ranked 96 in the WTF.. that's just not the point of it. I can do that playing Delray Beach
Yeah it took a while to explain, 10% is much easier to go through people's mind cause even a CH win of 120 only contributes 12 points.
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Old 12-10-2011, 08:07 PM   #39
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
- Two-day round (mostly for increased qualifying draws): Should a LL replace a player/team who has a bye to the second round but doesn't send picks for any of the rounds?

I meant in special cases when both first & second rounds are played on the same day, which was the case when this topic was raised. There wouldn't be any additional picks to be received.
Then yes


Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv View Post
Our standard qualifying draws have 16 players each. The increased draws have 32 players, who must win three matches to qualify.
Futures are fine then


Regarding the points that have been discussed will there be a vote to decide whether the rule is changed or not ? Also I wanted to hear more opinions regarding this

Quote:
- TB rules (Shootout/PTS, etc)
I would prefer to cancel the shootour rule and use the TB system like in TF. I think a winner of the match should be decided by who was better. Now we have that if A posted the OOP I would have won if B posted it I would have lost. The 2/1 2/0 rule in TF makes more sense. If still tied then the PTS should be considered. However I think if a match ends 63 64 and I have it 63 64 and another 64 63 I should win. I think it actually makes a difference if you hit the exact score in the exact set or not. The GD rule is fine as it is.

-LEs for SEs

I think LEs shouldn't be allowed a SE. For example if I played in lowCH and reached the final and commited for lowCH the following week, I would withdraw and get a SE in the highCH that week and probably take someone's place.

-Using same points as ATP
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:25 PM   #40
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Anything that can improve/change/remove the PTS shootout rule is most welcome

Otherwise other (usual) stuff:

- Manager abuse needs to stop. I don't care if the person pleading is saying that they are only pointing out the obvious or entitled to complain - its ridiculous what certain players think they should be able to get away with and most of the time its the players that never manage who are the worst offenders. Of course, there are instances where managers are not doing the job they signed up for - but in those instances alerting the board and resorting to the Code of Conduct should be the best alternative and remarks should never be personal. If they are, the poster has forefeited the right to not expect a ban.
- US (and Korean) challengers without livescoring should be replaced and/or removed when feasible.
- In FITD last season, one manager put in place a Asian series at the end of the season that rewarded the top player (like the US Open Olympus series on the ATP) over the course of the tournaments. This worked great and is a great idea - perhaps we can look at implementing one for TT, with a ranking points boost for lets say the top 5 players.
- If we could get a "board" or "committee" together at the beginning of the season of experienced managers to write up a "Intro to TT managing" or "Guide to TT Managing" or something along those lines, I think it would be very useful and helpful to new managers. It may also help recruit new managers to the cause and take away the question of incentives that is clearly never going anywhere.
- I like the idea of a manager being able to award one wildcard to an ATP tournament or ATP qualifying. I honestly dont see the harm except frankly to players like myself around 60-80 in the rankings. I dont think a board needs to be appointed here, rather the tournament manager could make the choice.
- If two players both dont send, I think its completely unfair a LL can come in and move into round 2. The top score of a losing player who sent in picks should be moved to that spot and can move into the next round.
- Back to the PTS thing, if identical picks are sent in lets say after round 2 in a 32 tournament or round 3 in larger tournaments, I would rather CB be used immediately in order to reward a player who has been most consistent over the course of the tournament rather than a player who perhaps got lucky in the early rounds.
- Early deadlines are fine. If you miss one, most likely it was the player's fault. Plenty of TT players are online consistently but dont read the tournament threads and wait until the last minute. In that case, it shouldnt be the manager's fault someone wasn't paying attention.
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Old 12-13-2011, 04:58 PM   #41
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreak4coffee View Post
- If we could get a "board" or "committee" together at the beginning of the season of experienced managers to write up a "Intro to TT managing" or "Guide to TT Managing" or something along those lines, I think it would be very useful and helpful to new managers. It may also help recruit new managers to the cause and take away the question of incentives that is clearly never going anywhere.
I did write up a complete 'idiot guide' full of screencaps from start to finish on my first time hosting of Helsinki for that very reason - it's being proof read by Gav and all others.
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:07 PM   #42
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdeyC View Post
I did write up a complete 'idiot guide' full of screencaps from start to finish on my first time hosting of Helsinki for that very reason - it's being proof read by Gav and all others.
hopefully more managers can be attracted by that

As I said I'm always happy to manage with another manager on my side cuz I cant handle everything due to school etc...
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:08 PM   #43
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreak4coffee View Post
- I like the idea of a manager being able to award one wildcard to an ATP tournament or ATP qualifying. I honestly dont see the harm except frankly to players like myself around 60-80 in the rankings. I dont think a board needs to be appointed here, rather the tournament manager could make the choice.
Finally somebody who supports my idea

It would be great if players outside the top 100 etc had a chance to play ATP events in order to establish a footing there and eventually improve....
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:27 PM   #44
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreak4coffee View Post
- I like the idea of a manager being able to award one wildcard to an ATP tournament or ATP qualifying. I honestly dont see the harm except frankly to players like myself around 60-80 in the rankings. I dont think a board needs to be appointed here, rather the tournament manager could make the choice.
I don't like that idea - it will lead to accusations of unfair choices with managers accused of giving their friends a place in the draw.

I don't agree with wildcards fullstop, my ranking is 140 and I have no right whatsoever to a wildcard to an ATP event until I earn it with a higher ranking or by qualifying by right.
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:54 PM   #45
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Default Re: TT changes 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdeyC View Post
I don't like that idea - it will lead to accusations of unfair choices with managers accused of giving their friends a place in the draw.

I don't agree with wildcards fullstop, my ranking is 140 and I have no right whatsoever to a wildcard to an ATP event until I earn it with a higher ranking or by qualifying by right.
I guess my response would be - so what? Of course managers will pick their friends or someone from the country where the tournament is being held. But its only one spot. In a game. Its not a life or death decision. It may even reintroduce an element of fun to TT that old timers seem to think is lacking now compared to years ago, where you have more interaction in the threads and fun banter. The wildcard period could be open for a week and produce some amusing conversations, posters making arguments for their candidacy for the wildcard etc... People loved the interviews Marto did at the US Open, and the few managers that still do awards see it is usually well received as a fun aside in TT. I think a wildcard could introduce more of that "fun" aspect to the game. I would certainly base my personal decision as a manager not on friendship, but recent form, nationality, witty arguments etc...

And frankly I have to admit I dont understand at all this constant desire to ensure 100% fairness in TT when the changes thread comes up every December. Anytime an idea is brought up about wildcards, spots, incentives etc... its the argument that usually completly ends the conversation. At the end of the day, however, at its core TT will remain inherently an unfair game. We can refine the game all we want to lessen the impact of chance, luck, or unfairness, but results will weigh heavily toward luck and where you are in draw on what day. And that's not even the PTS system. What can be more unfair than the PTS system?

I'm proposing a minor change with in my mind very little risk. I know it won't go anywhere, but perhaps we should be thinking of more ways to keep this a game - even if they are perceived as unfair - rather than more ways to continue to "professionalize" TT into a rules-based system that is leading to more and more people saying TT is no longer any fun. Just my two cents.
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