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Old 01-08-2012, 03:11 AM   #406
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

I don't know ... Paul's policies might work well for the US beautifully ... maybe, I don't know.

But internationally it would be the biggest crash since 911. Dropping out of UN/WTO and going back to essential isolationism? + I'm sure the backlash will eventually extend back domestically as well.

Of course, if he does get elected (somehow) I'm sure none of these drastic actions will occur but still ...

And the video is impressive but there are some justifications for his predictions that are poor. (Arab spring is overthrowing of regimes by religious fundamentalists? WTF?)
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:12 AM   #407
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

I think the world would prefer isolationism to our current policy of intervening in every Middle Eastern civil war. Paul has some great ideas on foreign policy, okay on social, horrifying economically. Cutting as much money from gvmt in 1 year as he wants to would murder economy
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:24 AM   #408
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
I think the world would prefer isolationism to our current policy of intervening in every Middle Eastern civil war. Paul has some great ideas on foreign policy, okay on social, horrifying economically. Cutting as much money from gvmt in 1 year as he wants to would murder economy
Sure, the current situation is terrible.

But what paul is suggesting would be simply swinging the pendulum from one end alllll the way to the other end.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:59 AM   #409
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

i missed the debate, does anyone have a link for a stream or a re-run?
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:04 AM   #410
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

http://abcnews.go.com/
Just clips though
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Old 01-08-2012, 05:29 AM   #411
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

man, what a tepid performance by gingrich and santorum. this is what the press touted a "kamikaze, all-in anti-romney thrashing"? romney has tons of weaknesses yet for some reason campaign advisors made the pack go after him on economics? good lord. that's pretty much the only place where his record is rock solid, plus he got the talking points to defend his past work routinely.

whatever comes his way, he brushes off critics easily, what a cakewalk in the first 15 minutes.

we've just witnessed the knock-out blow. romney will take on obama. time to kick back and enjoy the rest of the show.

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Old 01-08-2012, 07:57 AM   #412
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangehat View Post
I don't know ... Paul's policies might work well for the US beautifully ... maybe, I don't know.

But internationally it would be the biggest crash since 911. Dropping out of UN/WTO and going back to essential isolationism? + I'm sure the backlash will eventually extend back domestically as well.

Of course, if he does get elected (somehow) I'm sure none of these drastic actions will occur but still ...
He wants to take the US out of NATO (which probably won't happen) but not the UN. He'll treat it more as a forum for dialogue between nations but won't bow to its every demand.

You're right, many bills won't make it past the houses but it's the same with every candidate. The difference with Paul is you know he'll fight for his policies harder than the others. His impact will make more of a difference than all the others put together.


Quote:
Originally Posted by orangehat View Post
Sure, the current situation is terrible.

But what paul is suggesting would be simply swinging the pendulum from one end alllll the way to the other end.
Not necessarily. Paul commonly uses the examples of Sweden, Switzerland and Singapore foreign policy. They never get involved in middle-eastern civil war and aren't hated by anyone. Nor have they been isolated from the rest of the world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
Paul has some great ideas on foreign policy, okay on social, horrifying economically. Cutting as much money from gvmt in 1 year as he wants to would murder economy
Cutting spending is the only way out. Raising taxes scares the largest investors out of the country, discourages productivity and business growth, and halts recovery. Only thing more horrifying than short term cuts is Uncle Sam, the Godzilla of debt, romping towards the final destination of default. The global economy would unquestionably collapse. Think Lehmann Brothers only 1,000 times worse.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:49 AM   #413
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
Not necessarily. Paul commonly uses the examples of Sweden, Switzerland and Singapore foreign policy. They never get involved in middle-eastern civil war and aren't hated by anyone. Nor have they been isolated from the rest of the world.

Cutting spending is the only way out. Raising taxes scares the largest investors out of the country, discourages productivity and business growth, and halts recovery. Only thing more horrifying than short term cuts is Uncle Sam, the Godzilla of debt, romping towards the final destination of default. The global economy would unquestionably collapse. Think Lehmann Brothers only 1,000 times worse.
Perhaps but neither Sweden, Switzerland nor Singapore is the leading superpower in the world either. Different situations call for different foreign policies. This in no way means I support the current US foreign policy - I too think it is way too interventionist and aggressive - but it would be thoroughly inappropriate and irresponsible to utilize foreign policies like those of Switzerland or Singapore.

(Irrelevant side note but I find it hilarious how you segued from foreign policy to taxes with Sweden as the first example and Sweden has the highest marginal tax bracket in the entire world - 48% last i checked)

I am all for spending cuts but I thoroughly expect spending cuts to be made in the right places. Spending has to be thoroughly reviewed and revised but proposed irresponsible cuts to education and the "shoot first ask questions later" approach to cutting medicare and medicaid is just ridiculous.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:55 PM   #414
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

There is no way Paul can win. He doesn't offer free stuff.
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:21 PM   #415
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

Another debate on msnbc right now:

http://www.2012presidentialelectionn...nbc-at-9am-et/
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:33 PM   #416
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by orangehat View Post
Perhaps but neither Sweden, Switzerland nor Singapore is the leading superpower in the world either. Different situations call for different foreign policies. This in no way means I support the current US foreign policy - I too think it is way too interventionist and aggressive - but it would be thoroughly inappropriate and irresponsible to utilize foreign policies like those of Switzerland or Singapore.

(Irrelevant side note but I find it hilarious how you segued from foreign policy to taxes with Sweden as the first example and Sweden has the highest marginal tax bracket in the entire world - 48% last i checked)

I am all for spending cuts but I thoroughly expect spending cuts to be made in the right places. Spending has to be thoroughly reviewed and revised but proposed irresponsible cuts to education and the "shoot first ask questions later" approach to cutting medicare and medicaid is just ridiculous.
Medicare and medicaid should be cut, no question. He hasn't mentioned cuts in education but, if necessary, I'm sure they'll come. Military spending will be halved first without doubt.

(Irrelevant side note but I find it hilarious how you mix foreign policy and taxes. Sweden's taxes are too high and foreign policy very passive but they're not isolated from the world last I checked.)
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:00 PM   #417
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

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Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
Medicare and medicaid should be cut, no question. He hasn't mentioned cuts in education but, if necessary, I'm sure they'll come. Military spending will be halved first without doubt.

(Irrelevant side note but I find it hilarious how you mix foreign policy and taxes. Sweden's taxes are too high and foreign policy very passive but they're not isolated from the world last I checked.)
Well I'll see Paul's plans first before I comment then. All I know is the other Republicans have unrealistic cuts.

(When I meant isolationism I was referring to the USA pre-Pearl Harbor and never in my posts did I mention Sweden as being isolationist. In fact if 1 of the three countries were to be isolationist it would probably be Switzerland rather than Sweden. And I did clearly state SEGUED, which according to dictionary.com is a smooth transition from 1 topic to another, which by my count clearly means I accepted they were different topics. I was just commenting at the inconvenient coincidence of your choice of example )
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:48 PM   #418
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

My bad, I read it wrong, not perfect obviously. Sweden was Ron's example, blame him.

The other republicans haven't really discussed spending cuts in adequate detail. They talk about balancing the budget and cutting taxes - an obvious contradiction. Classic politics, none of them will keep their promises once in power.

Dr Paul on the other hand talks about nothing but SPENDING cuts. He hasn't even mentioned cutting a single tax in any debate. He doesn't promise low taxes for the rich and subsidies for the poor; just pure simple liberty.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:54 PM   #419
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

If we could combine Paul's economic policy and social views with Romeny's foreign policy, the Repubs would have the perfect candidate, imo. I also like Huntsman's ideas on taxes, strongly eliminating all loopholes which is what is the problem with taxes and why it's not fair.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:05 PM   #420
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Default Re: US presidential election 2012

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If we could combine Paul's economic policy and social views with Romeny's foreign policy, the Repubs would have the perfect candidate, imo. I also like Huntsman's ideas on taxes, strongly eliminating all loopholes which is what is the problem with taxes and why it's not fair.
It's impossible to combine those two, because Paul's economy doesn't allow you to wage wars 15000 km from USA. America simply doesn't have the money to attack Iran or anyone else.
In fact, even if Paul was elected, it's already too late to save America from economic disaster.
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