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Old 11-23-2011, 09:53 PM   #166
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
so he realized he was wrong and corrected himself some hundreds of years later? this is the God one is supposed to worship?
I wouldn't really know. As for the last part you said, you really don't want to go there.

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Jesus contradicted and corrected God. I mean himself... I mean God... I mean himself... aaaah!

Good luck coming to terms with that though. If Jesus himself contradicted God's teachings in the OT, what is the OT good for? And if the OT is the true word of God, what was that Jesus doing correcting it?

Of course, one might say God addresses humans differently according to the different periods of history. Still doesn't account for the cruelty of the OT. Seriously, read the Bible. From cover to cover. That bully just loves his killing...
Well, that was the first and only time God addressed people in such a way. Without Jesus there would be no Christianity today, I think that's for sure, OT alone would probably be considered as an old and obscure book.

Anyway, that's only my own view, I'm not going to say it's uniquely true, or even logical for that matter. Faith is not always the most logical thing anyhow
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:12 PM   #167
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
I wouldn't really know.
and yet that's what you believe to be true?

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Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
As for the last part you said, you really don't want to go there.
I actually do want to go there, giving a satisfactory answer to such questions would really help

you can't believe in gay rights and worship the God of the OT at the same time, pretending to do so only adds to the reputation of theists for being nonsensical and hypocritical, when one can do so much better by believing in science, reason and things we actually do know to be true and good for us
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:33 AM   #168
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
you can't believe in gay rights and worship the God of the OT at the same time, pretending to do so only adds to the reputation of theists for being nonsensical and hypocritical, when one can do so much better by believing in science, reason and things we actually do know to be true and good for us
What's with the gay rights anyway? When the Bible was written, slavery was still rampant, so human rights were on a very low level, let alone gay rights, it's not like they were discussed in detail. The fact gay sex was mentioned in OT, doesn't necessarily mean anything - as I've already pointed out, the woman had to die according to the OT, yet not only Jesus didn't stone her, he saved her (btw, there goes misogynistic part out of the window).

Anyway, not sure what's the point of Science vs God argument, when it doesn't say anything. Science doesn't deal with god, can't prove nor disprove its existence (it's not even trying to), simply doesn't apply.
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:55 AM   #169
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
What's with the gay rights anyway? When the Bible was written, slavery was still rampant, so human rights were on a very low level, let alone gay rights, it's not like they were discussed in detail.
true, and the God of the OT didn't make things better for humans, he actually commanded despicable laws that only added to the misery of people at that time (for instance the original invention of cutting portions of the genital organs, all rights reserved to God for that one) rather than teaching them with his infinite wisdom, power and knowledge how to behave like proper people, something close to how the civilized, secular world - that got rid of religious commandments - lives now

unless of course; God was a human invention back at a time when they didn't know any better, some men tried to control others (especially women) and didn't have any higher wisdom or knowledge to help them become better human beings, unless you think followers of the OT were better than our secular societies now, in which case Aloimeh would agree with you

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Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
The fact gay sex was mentioned in OT, doesn't necessarily mean anything - as I've already pointed out, the woman had to die according to the OT, yet not only Jesus didn't stone her, he saved her (btw, there goes misogynistic part out of the window).
again, I'm not talking about what Jesus did, I'm talking about what the God of the OT and its prophets commanded and applied on their society, Jesus (according to Christian theology) is supposed to be one and the same in essence, so all the atrocities of the OT have been condoned by Jesus during a significant part of human history

you only have to answer a simple and direct question, do you believe the God of the OT did the right thing by condemning homosexuals and the homosexual act or not?

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Anyway, not sure what's the point of Science vs God argument, when it doesn't say anything. Science doesn't deal with god, can't prove nor disprove its existence (it's not even trying to), simply doesn't apply.
science shows us that we don't need God to understand our world, things we once ascribed to God now have very plausible and reasonable natural and scientific explanations, you don't need to keep that childish blind faith in despicable, ancient moral values that are no longer relevant to our life, especially when they cause much misery in our world once people take them too seriously
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:34 AM   #170
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

I wonder if Christians here realize the God of the OT would want me dead simply for posting what I post here


Leviticus 24:10 And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp;

Leviticus 24:11 And the Israelitish woman's son blasphemed the name of the Lord, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother's name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan: )

Leviticus 24:12 And they put him in ward, that the mind of the LORD might be showed them.

Leviticus 24:13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Leviticus 24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.

Leviticus 24:15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.

Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.




nice! I'm sure you would have loved to live at those times, under such graceful merciful divine care
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Old 11-24-2011, 08:38 AM   #171
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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How can you possibly say that faith did not motivate the Inquisition? It is so well documented. Whether or not you agree with their interpretation, it was religiously motivated. There are no ifs, ands, or buts.
The Christian message is explicit (against it) and unequivocal. The hell with this Nietzschean bullshit that there ain't no facts but only interpretations.

It's a non-violent and (unfortunately - lol joking ) an utterly feministic message. The only feministic religion I know. I know atheists who accept that, so ...


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Originally Posted by habibko
science shows us that we don't need God to understand our world
Understanding of the World has never been the Christian religion's purpose. I hate the idea that life should be an investigation, a problem to solve, something for Experts, for cops in a way. Georges Bernanos magnificently showed it was a risk to gamble.
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Old 11-24-2011, 10:37 AM   #172
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

For a moment I was tempted to respond to Habibko's empty ramblings too but I refrained. His main goal is to ridicule christianity and there's not much to do about that really.
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:33 PM   #173
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
Science shows us that we don't need God to understand our world, things we once ascribed to God now have very plausible and reasonable natural and scientific explanations, you don't need to keep that childish blind faith in despicable, ancient moral values that are no longer relevant to our life, especially when they cause much misery in our world once people take them too seriously
I didn't read the rest of the thread, but this I would QFT.
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Old 11-24-2011, 12:40 PM   #174
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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For a moment I was tempted to respond to Habibko's empty ramblings too but I refrained. His main goal is to ridicule christianity and there's not much to do about that really.
If you had the power to isolate it from ridicule would you use that power? Do you think Christianity is vulnerable to ridicule?
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:01 PM   #175
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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science shows us that we don't need God to understand our world, things we once ascribed to God now have very plausible and reasonable natural and scientific explanations
Science still hasn't explained a good deal of things, including some of the most basic/fundamental ones. For example:

Quote:
What happened before the Big Bang? The conventional answer to that question is usually, “There is no such thing as ‘before the Big Bang.’” That’s the event that started it all. But the right answer, says physicist Sean Carroll, is, “We just don’t know.” Carroll, as well as many other physicists and cosmologists have begun to consider the possibility of time before the Big Bang, as well as alternative theories of how our universe came to be. Carroll discussed this type of “speculative research” during a talk at the American Astronomical Society Meeting last week in St. Louis, Missouri.

“This is an interesting time to be a cosmologist,” Carroll said. “We are both blessed and cursed. It’s a golden age, but the problem is that the model we have of the universe makes no sense.
So much for science having an answer for everything

And one more thing:

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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
you don't need to keep that childish blind faith in despicable, ancient moral values that are no longer relevant to our life, especially when they cause much misery in our world once people take them too seriously
I'm anxious to hear, which of those things that Jesus preached you consider despicable and not longer relevant to our life? Love your enemies? Forgive your brother? Do not judge others? Let's hear, which one is troubling you the most?
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:03 PM   #176
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
The Christian message is explicit (against it) and unequivocal. The hell with this Nietzschean bullshit that there ain't no facts but only interpretations.

It's a non-violent and (unfortunately - lol joking ) an utterly feministic message. The only feministic religion I know. I know atheists who accept that, so ...
So what?

How is the Christian message feministic?


Quote:
Understanding of the World has never been the Christian religion's purpose. I hate the idea that life should be an investigation, a problem to solve, something for Experts, for cops in a way. Georges Bernanos magnificently showed it was a risk to gamble.
The quest for understanding is the quest for truth. It is no wonder that Christianity has been the major enemy of scientific endeavour, and hence of progress and advancement.
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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:21 PM   #177
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Science still hasn't explained a good deal of things, including some of the most basic/fundamental ones. For example:



So much for science having an answer for everything
Who the hell says science has an answer for everything? Who?? I'll tell you who: religious people and people who epically fail to understand what the scientific approach is all about. Scientists are the first to say they don't have an answer for everything. Not yet, at least. They are happy to say "I don't know". They are not scared of ignorance, they see it as a fascinating and invigorating challenge. It is because of people with that mentality that you and me are living such a comfortable life with all possible commodities.

The pool of scientific knowledge doubles every few years. There is always less and less things we don't know. We might still don't know some things, and perhaps we'll never be able to know everything. While an apparently instinctive human reaction, trying to give an answer to everything is very illogical, limited and limiting approach.

The way to address a gap in knowledge is by saying "we don't know/understand this, therefore we'll keep investigating, experimenting, trying to work it out", certainly not by going "we don't know/understand this, but we MUST have an answer for this, and we must have it NOW, therefore we'll go with the particular supernatural explanation we fancy, which will most probably be the one we were brought up in".

As has already been said, there are a vast amount of things that used to be unexplainable and impossible to understand in the past and are now perfectly explained by science. When approaching unexplained things, what is more logical, then: to conclude that a supernatural being must exist to account for them, or that they will one day be explained by findings achieved through scientific analysis, like all others before?
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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).

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Old 11-24-2011, 02:21 PM   #178
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

The bible needs a remake. A bunch of people must surely have had simultaneous visions of God by now. They need to get together and write down what he said to suit the human thinking in the modern day world and modify the bible into an edition that people of our time can relate to. The Bible 2.0: Now homophobia, Misogyny and mutilation free.

I'm hardly kidding either. This entire thing has and always will reek of nonsense however much faith you possess in religion and in this case, Christianity. The fact is, if you are a true believer and trust that the bible speaks the Gods words, then you must accept everything the bible states.. there can be no half and half - oh I'll pick and choose what I believe God is telling me through this book, oh look respect thy neighbour, that works! Hm, women know your place and wives be submissive to your husband? Nah, we can't take everything said in the bible literally. Completely reeks of double-standards.

If as you claim, the Bible speaks the truths told by the Lord himself, why would misogynistic rubbish that not very coincidently would have been prevalent in everyday life back then soil its pages? If that's how things should be according to God, are Christians who respect women and all sexualities disrespecting their own religion and God himself? Yes? Then fine, Christianity might speak truths, but they are truths that we as knowledgable human beings cannot respect or abide by, the God represented in that book is not someone we in the modern day should even consider, let alone praise and pray to. I don't care how all powerful he is, we are talking about right and wrong - even the all powerful can be wrong, being cowards and blindly loving an all powerful being despite that being having plain wrong ideals is not righteous.. it's simply cowardly. But whenever someone questions the Bible or God, they're going to hell right? That's the reason we do anything.. to avoid going to hell. Not to do right and love and care for what we have been fortunate enough to experience, no we pretend to be selfless and bow down to the all powerful.. not because of what he/she/it tells us.. that's just a guise when you logically look at how we're expected to behave, but because we need a free ticket to heaven.

Back to what I said earlier - are Christians who respect and treat women and all sexualities EQUALLY disrespecting their own religion and God himself? No? Then you agree, the Bible needs a revamp, no point picking and choosing, since God loves one and all equally right? That can only mean some slanderous human fool has been misrepresenting him, only the good stuff in the Bible is what God expects of us, not what we in the modern day consider "wrong". Why leave it in the disgraced state it is at the moment? Destroy those pages filled with what we consider wrong today and the Bible will become truly what God speaks.

Because if it makes me a fool that's going to hell for being someone who tries to be the best he can to do good in his lifetime, even if it means questioning the ideals of a God that may have and is teaching corrupt, backhanded beliefs; then rather than being a cowardly selfish puppet that goes to heaven for blindly respecting and glorifying one that possesses these disturbing ideals, I'll continue being a fool that's going to hell.
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Old 11-24-2011, 03:12 PM   #179
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
If you had the power to isolate it from ridicule would you use that power?
Nah, firstly that would mean changing the religion and secondly I wonder if that is even possible.
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Do you think Christianity is vulnerable to ridicule?
To non-believers, absolutely. The bible even says so itself.
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Who the hell says science has an answer for everything? Who??
Habibko
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Old 11-24-2011, 03:20 PM   #180
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Habibko
To be fair, he only said that we don't need religion to explain how the world works and that things previously ascribed to Gods or explained by religion have been explained by science.

Nothing wrong with that
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