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Old 11-17-2011, 01:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiaben View Post
I remember this from him:

On October 29, 2010, during a Real Time segment, Maher commented on a news story saying that the name Mohammed had become the most popular baby name in the United Kingdom. He asked, "Am I a racist to feel alarmed by that? Because I am. And it’s not because of the race, it’s because of the religion. I don’t have to apologize, do I, for not wanting the Western world to be taken over by Islam in 300 years? Sharia law is being institutionalized in England? Well, then I am right, I should be alarmed."

He is a disgrace to true liberals. He's an ethnocentric racist Zionist dirt bag that is no better than the Neo-Nazi conservatives he criticizes.
He's anti-religion, not a racist
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:50 PM   #47
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiaben View Post
I remember this from him:

On October 29, 2010, during a Real Time segment, Maher commented on a news story saying that the name Mohammed had become the most popular baby name in the United Kingdom. He asked, "Am I a racist to feel alarmed by that? Because I am. And it’s not because of the race, it’s because of the religion. I don’t have to apologize, do I, for not wanting the Western world to be taken over by Islam in 300 years? Sharia law is being institutionalized in England? Well, then I am right, I should be alarmed."

He is a disgrace to true liberals. He's an ethnocentric racist Zionist dirt bag that is no better than the Neo-Nazi conservatives he criticizes.
Everything outspoken regarding religion and race nowadays is judged to be racist. People are unable and unwilling to talk about these issues because of the fact it taints your reputation. What he said was an opinion on how things may be in the future, and he is correct, it is a troubling prospect. Of course by even considering this possibility as a bad thing or god forbid agreeing with this point of view a person becomes just another racist..

Well anyway, I wish there were a few people as outspoken as Bill Maher in the UK.. must be how the media reacts to things here.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:14 PM   #48
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
What is this supposed to mean? Did he say anything like that?

There are several books that undermine women clearly, several times and in several ways. Should we cherrypick and just ignore the ugly bits of the bible and keep the ones we find ok?
And here we go again. I hate discussing religion on this site.

To answer your question: no, we shouldn't ignore the ugly bits and only keep the good ones. But neither should we only keep the ugly ones (which incidentally have a cultural context people critical of the Bible tend to forget) and simply discard parts like "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:17 PM   #49
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

I guess Americans find it hard to understand how the recent wave of Muslim immigration affects Western societies, since their Muslim immigration quota is much lower than in Europe.

Where I'm from, Islamic individuals and institutions have been asking for the ban of an ancient festivity depicting the reconquista, the historical events in which the Christians conquered the various kingdoms of the Iberian peninsula back from the Moors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moros_y_cristianos

This is an intrinsical part of Valencian tradition, now under threat by religious zealots, with the connivance of some local appeasers and religion apologists, providing a perfect example of "tolerance of intolerance".


Another example from personal experience, this time in Germany: some months ago, in the school where I teach, taking advantage of the good weather and the school facilities, we decided to offer a barbecue to some Belgian guests we were hosting. Us being in Germany, we obviously bought tons of sausages. But knowing that some of the students were Muslim (mainly Turkish), we also bought some chicken filets and even some beef.

But alas! One of our German students, keen to help, committed the unspeakable sin of taking some of the chicken filets with the same tongs he'd grabbed the sausages. That was the dinner right there. Some of the Muslim students saw it, and we were forced to throw away most of the meat. The Muslim students from Belgium stormed out, taking the rest of the Belgian delegation for which the dinner had been planned, and most of our Turkish students with them.

So don't come and tell me the Muslim influence in Western societies is a myth and we shouldn't be alarmed by the developments.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:46 PM   #50
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

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Originally Posted by Cat9 View Post
Wrong. Really really wrong. This misogynist thing is about Maher hating ALL women. I mean really hating. I watched him 5 nights a week on PI for five years.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:51 PM   #51
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

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Originally Posted by Seingeist View Post

The odds of Islam formally taking over the United States strike me as extremely remote; the secular humanists, on the other hand, are striking political blows against the free practice of Christianity regularly.


You can practice religion freely in the privacy of your own home or in the community of your filthy rich, tax free churches at any time. What more do you want? Forcing the rest of us to join in?
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:09 PM   #52
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

It's just me or all threads where Seingeist posts drifted into a religious debate.
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:12 PM   #53
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

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Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
Yes because the Bible has only 1 author and all the Bible's books describe the role of women in the exact same way.
The 'spiritual' author is supposedly God. That is the one entity I am referring to. Secondly, who said anything about each of the actual authors describing the role of women in an identical fashion? The fact is that women aren't exactly valued in the bible, to put it mildly.
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:22 PM   #54
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

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Secular humanists on a rampage, Clydey, many of whom share the same misguided, open contempt for Christianity that you do and are desperate to see it snuffed out of existence, even at the cost of "religious freedom."
Yes, the 10% of the planet who do not believe in a deity are clearly a massive threat to religious freedom.

You are free to believe whatever you like. What you are not free to do is force your beliefs on anyone else. Atheists are the victims in America, not religious people.

Quote:
The odds of Islam formally taking over the United States strike me as extremely remote; the secular humanists, on the other hand, are striking political blows against the free practice of Christianity regularly.
Do you have any examples of this?

Quote:
Nope. As usual, your assertion is lazy, thoughtless, unfounded, and false. I would dismantle your case but you haven't actually made one (quelle surprise!).
If my assertion is really lazy and thoughtless, it shouldn't be difficult to debunk.

Do you deny that the god of the old testament is a misogynist?

Quote:
(For someone who not infrequently touts his own intellectual prowess, your posts betray an embarrassing unwillingness to think with any degree of insight, nuance, or fairness).
I don't recall doing any such thing. You are projecting.

Quote:
Human nature is the problem, Topspindoctor, not religion. And unfortunately, human beings have the profound capacity to wrest nearly anything into the service of their own malice, avarice, and pride, including "religion."
It is particularly easy to use something to serve one's own ends when those ends are explicitly stated in a 'Holy Book'.
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:30 PM   #55
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

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Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
And here we go again. I hate discussing religion on this site.

To answer your question: no, we shouldn't ignore the ugly bits and only keep the good ones. But neither should we only keep the ugly ones (which incidentally have a cultural context people critical of the Bible tend to forget) and simply discard parts like "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Isn't God perfect? Cultural context should be irrelvant to an absolutist version of morality. If God is so insular as to be influenced by the moral zeitgeist, he is far less enlightened than many mere humans who have engineered change over the centuries. Your average participant in civil rights movements is more enlightened than your god.
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:14 PM   #56
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
Isn't God perfect? Cultural context should be irrelvant to an absolutist version of morality. If God is so insular as to be influenced by the moral zeitgeist, he is far less enlightened than many mere humans who have engineered change over the centuries. Your average participant in civil rights movements is more enlightened than your god.
Yep. The pope would shave many parts of the bible if he could(can't do it because that would cripple tradition and centuries of teachings). Many things that seemed ok when the Council of Trent took a look are out of date today.
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:43 PM   #57
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

The Old Testament and the New Testament shouldn't be part of the same religion, because they are contradictory. Jesus rejected 'The Law' that would become the OT.
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:47 PM   #58
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

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The Old Testament and the New Testament shouldn't be part of the same religion, because they are contradictory. Jesus rejected 'The Law' that would become the OT.
And yet stated that no one should remove "a jot and a tittle" from it?
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The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:14 PM   #59
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

Well, all of the following is plenty off-topic, but since this is a shit thread anyway, why not?

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
You can practice religion freely in the privacy of your own home or in the community of your filthy rich, tax free churches at any time. What more do you want? Forcing the rest of us to join in?
This is appalling, and it's exactly the attitude that I'm talking about. You Christians are free to believe what you like as long as you shut up and keep it strictly confined to yourselves. It's like a societal-religious version of "Don't ask, don't tell." All manner of obscenity hammers our airwaves and is pervading our curricula but Christianity is told to keep its ugly head down and make itself scarce.

That's well beyond separation of church and state (which is simply against the establishment of a state religion) and it's an impediment to the free practice of religion.

That unnecessary remark about the "filthy rich churches" makes it seem like you're being infected by this late wave of Obama's anti-rich populism.


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Originally Posted by Grassquet View Post
It's just me or all threads where Seingeist posts drifted into a religious debate.
I'm actually really glad that you said this, Grassquet, because it provides us with an opportunity for instruction. While you assigned no explicit blame for this, I am guessing that you assumed me to be the one mainly responsible for this particular phenomenon.

But I invite you to notice something that is becoming a pattern in all such threads that "drift into religious debate."

Where exactly did "Christianity" pop into this discussion? Allow me to direct you to its point of entry:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
Anyone who takes the bible literally and worships its author is absolutely a misogynist.
Ahh yes, Grassquet, now you remember. An unwarranted, inflammatory, baseless attack directed against me as a Christian. And when I make any comment at all in response, usually pointing out the falsity and unfairness of the attack, people start bitching about the devolution of threads into "religious debate."

Believe you me, Grassquet. Like Orka N, I have absolutely no desire to discuss Christianity with the likes of these. But I have this persistently annoying impulse to defend myself or Christianity when I (and it) are falsely and viciously slagged off.

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
The fact is that women aren't exactly valued in the bible, to put it mildly.
Another bald and unsupported assertion, another blatantly false assertion. What else is new?

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
What you are not free to do is force your beliefs on anyone else.
Common hypocritical doublespeak designed to silence Christians. Every time that we (people, citizens, etc.) open our mouths to say something, or debate with someone, or educate someone about anything, or design and enact legislation, we are, in a sense, "forcing our beliefs on [someone] else." The only way that this can be avoided is to believe and assert nothing, which is absurd.

"Forcing beliefs on anyone else" would really only be meaningful in the context of a state religion, in which case it would be punishable by law not to believe certain religious tenets (as it is in some Islamic countries). As it stands, it's an empty (and bad-faith) claim made mostly by whinging anti-Christians who are desperate for them to flee from the public discourse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey
Atheists are the victims in America, not religious people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey
Do you have any examples of this?
They're abundant, such that it is more practical to speak broadly or categorically. They tend to lie in the attempts to purge Christianity from schools, universities, institutions, and media. If you're not already more than familiar with these (e.g. attacks on school prayer, on public displays of the nativity scene, etc.), you can do the research as easily as I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey
If my assertion is really lazy and thoughtless, it shouldn't be difficult to debunk.
You don't seem to understand how this works, do you? The burden is on you to make a case in the first place for your own insulting and false assertion.

Imagine if I said, "Clydey, you're a homophobe and a racist," and then when you replied, "That's absurd," I said, "Well, it should be easy to prove me wrong then." The point, of course, is not at all the ease or difficulty of the task. The point is that it's not your job to build a case against a mere careless, insulting, unsupported assertion.

As it stands, there's nothing there to debunk, Clydey. You make an incorrect statement, I point out that you're wrong (again), and that's the end of the story until you actually have anything of substance with which to make a case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey
Do you deny that the god of the old testament is a misogynist?
Yes. (Boy that was easy)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey
It is particularly easy to use something to serve one's own ends when those ends are explicitly stated in a 'Holy Book'.
This is overly simplistic and not quite what I had in mind. In the vast majority of historical cases, abuses that have been committed in the name of Christianity do not even attempt to provide a Scriptural justification, so it does not have as much to do with what exactly the "Holy Book" says. Indeed, throughout much of history, the Catholic church actively attempted to keep the "Holy Book" out of the hands of laypeople lest they read what it has to say for themselves.

It's much more about politics and institutional power. Anyone seeking power under any regime has to play by certain rules and adopt a certain set of practices. When Christianity becomes the locus of political or sovereign power, people who are hungry to wield that power have to adopt the trappings of Christianity (of course) in order to do so. They are no more sincere about Christianity than the average politician is about everything that he is forced to espouse in order to get elected.

Power corrupts, as the saying goes, and unfortunately, this applies to religion as it does to anything else, inasmuch as we are still dealing with human nature.

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Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
And here we go again. I hate discussing religion on this site.

To answer your question: no, we shouldn't ignore the ugly bits and only keep the good ones. But neither should we only keep the ugly ones (which incidentally have a cultural context people critical of the Bible tend to forget) and simply discard parts like "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Extraordinarily well stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
Isn't God perfect? Cultural context should be irrelvant to an absolutist version of morality.
This is mistaken. Morality (i.e. the nature of good and evil) does not change. Practices and rituals can and do change, and the reasons for their employment are in no way reducible simply to "good and evil."

Also, strictly speaking, cultural context is completely relevant to absolute morality; human actions are always informed and determined by a particular context.

For example, let's say that in one culture, shaking hands is a sign of respect, and in another, bowing is a sign of respect. In one culture, it would be wrong not to bow in certain scenarios, and in the other, wrong not to shake hands.

However, it should be obvious that this does not somehow refute absolute morality just because we cannot set out some principle, "It is always wrong not to bow to your superiors." Rather, the operative principle is more broad (e.g. it is wrong to show gratuitous disrespect to people), but in its specific application, the moral action itself changes based on the cultural context.
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:45 PM   #60
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Default Re: Bill Maher owns this bitch on The View

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
And yet stated that no one should remove "a jot and a tittle" from it?
From God's law, not the levitical/pharisean commandments of men that make up a large part of the OT.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

God's law according to Jesus C:

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

"By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another"

"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren."

"...by this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome"

'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

"do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

"Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise. But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful."

“But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also”
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