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Old 11-23-2011, 12:01 AM   #151
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
I remember that one quite clearly, Federer didn't take much longer than the normal break time between sets, maybe an extra 20 seconds or so

I think his comment on the sun moving from the court post-match was more in jest than anything, if he really did that to disturb Davydenko's rhythm he would have done it a lot more often in his career
And even if he did do it to disturb Davydenko's rhythm, it's funny how it seems to be the ONLY thing people have to say about Federer's supposed gamesmanship. Like Kat_YYZ said, if a perfectly valid bathroom break in between sets is all you have to support Federer's "gamesmanship", that's pretty much the definition of scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It's a popularity contest, not disagreeing with that. But like I said, popularity contest ergo who has the most sportsmanship out of the 3 most popular players in the world? And I think Federer has a good case of him being a better oncourt sportsman than Djokovic and Nadal.

Anyway, this award has lost its meaning after Nadal won it last year after the stuff he pulled at Wimbledon so... for me, the Fans Favorite award is more important and glad Federer won it again.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:32 AM   #152
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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Originally Posted by rickcastle View Post
And even if he did do it to disturb Davydenko's rhythm, it's funny how it seems to be the ONLY thing people have to say about Federer's supposed gamesmanship.

Anyway, this award has lost its meaning after Nadal won it last year after the stuff he pulled at Wimbledon so... for me, the Fans Favorite award is more important and glad Federer won it again.

So when Nadal won it, it lost its meaning, but when Fed got it 15 years in a row because he was #1, it was still valid, right? And I'm sure I have read also other arguments why Fed should not have won this award...
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:51 AM   #153
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Since when having a toilet break is considered gamesmanship?
Let's forbid toilet breaks, medical time outs and even tiebreaks! Players could just play to death until one of them drops! And maybe then we can consider them proper sportsmen.

And Nadal versus Fish the other day... it was so obvious that he felt sick and had some gastroenteritis. Of course he needed the toilet break! Did you want him to shit his pants? Jesus, people you are so unreasonable it's not even funny.
why not?

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Old 11-23-2011, 12:55 AM   #154
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
I remember that one quite clearly, Federer didn't take much longer than the normal break time between sets, maybe an extra 20 seconds or so

I think his comment on the sun moving from the court post-match was more in jest than anything, if he really did that to disturb Davydenko's rhythm he would have done it a lot more often in his career
Exactly. It's hilarious how many people are actually mistaken in thinking that he "admitted" to using the toilet break to disrupt Davy's rhythm. I have no words.

Quote:
So when Nadal won it, it lost its meaning, but when Fed got it 15 years in a row because he was #1, it was still valid, right? And I'm sure I have read also other arguments why Fed should not have won this award...
I think the point is that Nadal is the worst person to win the sportsmanship award out of the top players because of his constant questionable gamesmanship antics on court. Like other people have said in this thread, the only instance of "gamesmanship" that can be cited for the case against Rog winning it is that stupid toilet break. Comparing the two, who's more deserving? In the same vein, how was Nadal deserving of it last year? Ergo, the award lost all meaning because it went to someone undeserving.
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:15 AM   #155
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
Exactly. It's hilarious how many people are actually mistaken in thinking that he "admitted" to using the toilet break to disrupt Davy's rhythm. I have no words.



I think the point is that Nadal is the worst person to win the sportsmanship award out of the top players because of his constant questionable gamesmanship antics on court. Like other people have said in this thread, the only instance of "gamesmanship" that can be cited for the case against Rog winning it is that stupid toilet break. Comparing the two, who's more deserving? In the same vein, how was Nadal deserving of it last year? Ergo, the award lost all meaning because it went to someone undeserving.
Gamesmanship in my opinion doesn't only happen on court. It also happens off court. You have to take care of what you say and be a gentleman. So Federer and Nadal are balanced out. Federer behaves perfectly on court while he's an arrogant prick off it. Nadal behaves suspiciously on court while he's the perfect gentleman and gracious loser off it. Why is one better than the other?
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:20 AM   #156
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Gamesmanship in my opinion doesn't only happen on court. It also happens off court. You have to take care of what you say and be a gentleman. So Federer and Nadal are balanced out. Federer behaves perfectly on court while he's an arrogant prick off it. Nadal behaves suspiciously on court while he's the perfect gentleman and gracious loser off it. Why is one better than the other?
because the outcome of the match is decided on court .....FYI not saying Nadal is a cheater
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:16 AM   #157
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
So when Nadal won it, it lost its meaning, but when Fed got it 15 years in a row because he was #1, it was still valid, right? And I'm sure I have read also other arguments why Fed should not have won this award...
Tbh, as a Federer fan I do think the award started losing its meaning when Federer was the only one winning it when there are players more deserving, hereby turning it into a popularity award. But as far as the hybrid of SE-Popularity contest awards go, it lost its meaning even more when Nadal won it because he has the least on court sportsmanship out of all the most popular players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Gamesmanship in my opinion doesn't only happen on court. It also happens off court. You have to take care of what you say and be a gentleman. So Federer and Nadal are balanced out. Federer behaves perfectly on court while he's an arrogant prick off it. Nadal behaves suspiciously on court while he's the perfect gentleman and gracious loser off it. Why is one better than the other?
As Saberq has said, results are decided on court, not off court. So if I am a player, I will prefer if my opponent plays mind games with me off the court rather than during the match. You can mouth off all you want off court, it just makes you sound like a prick and a sore loser and it doesn't change the outcome of the match.
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:43 AM   #158
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Gamesmanship in my opinion doesn't only happen on court. It also happens off court. You have to take care of what you say and be a gentleman. So Federer and Nadal are balanced out. Federer behaves perfectly on court while he's an arrogant prick off it. Nadal behaves suspiciously on court while he's the perfect gentleman and gracious loser off it. Why is one better than the other?
no

nadal plays mind games by negating he's the favourite on clay against any random mug. he's known not only for wanting to take the pressure off him but also for putting onto the shoulders of his rivals.

as for on court antics v. off court comments, it's pretty evident the former is much less sportsmanlike. for one thing on court antics have a direct impact on the outcome of a match whereas whatever bitter/arrogant/stupid/normal stuff one might say in a press conference won't (and not at all if it's after the match, which is olderer's case most of the times)
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:52 AM   #159
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Gamesmanship in my opinion doesn't only happen on court. It also happens off court. You have to take care of what you say and be a gentleman. So Federer and Nadal are balanced out. Federer behaves perfectly on court while he's an arrogant prick off it. Nadal behaves suspiciously on court while he's the perfect gentleman and gracious loser off it. Why is one better than the other?
Nadal can't be arrogant with his English off court
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:41 AM   #160
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
no

nadal plays mind games by negating he's the favourite on clay against any random mug. he's known not only for wanting to take the pressure off him but also for putting onto the shoulders of his rivals.

as for on court antics v. off court comments, it's pretty evident the former is much less sportsmanlike. for one thing on court antics have a direct impact on the outcome of a match whereas whatever bitter/arrogant/stupid/normal stuff one might say in a press conference won't (and not at all if it's after the match, which is olderer's case most of the times)
I disagree with Rafa's mind game playing, I think he's just like that, same as Roger is honest to the point of being asshole-ish at times.

And yes, those words after the matches have no impact on it.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:03 AM   #161
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Gamesmanship in my opinion doesn't only happen on court. It also happens off court. You have to take care of what you say and be a gentleman. So Federer and Nadal are balanced out. Federer behaves perfectly on court while he's an arrogant prick off it. Nadal behaves suspiciously on court while he's the perfect gentleman and gracious loser off it. Why is one better than the other?
I disagree. There are no stated rules tennis, or perhaps most, if not all, sports, mandating players to be polite to each other off-court. However, there are tons of rules put in place to police on-court behaviour to ensure fair play as far as possible. Tennis players are not obliged to be nice to each other when they're not playing a match, but they are obliged to follow the stated rules of the sport that they choose to play. Whatever they choose to say off court is their own business, and it's entirely on them if they choose to say things that make themselves look like sore losers, etc. But it's not at all up to them to break the rules of the game.

And of course, tennis is traditionally a gentleman's sport, and thus players are expected to behave like gentlemen - on court. Off court, again, it's really their own problem. Mouthing off at opponents in post-match interviews makes a player look like a sore loser, but it's nothing compared to time-delaying tactics employed during a match with the intention of disrupting your opponent's rhythm, or even throwing a hissy fit when you're losing a match.

Also, while I agree that Rog isn't always the most gracious loser, I think Nadal has had his moments as well.
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Old 11-23-2011, 06:45 AM   #162
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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nonadal plays mind games by negating he's the favourite on clay against any random mug. he's known not only for wanting to take the pressure off him but also for putting onto the shoulders of his rivals.
So Nadal should admit that he's the best on clay and any opponent doesn't even have 1% of his talent?

If Nadal makes a comment that puts the pressure on his opponents – how about this – they can do the same. Everyone knows Nadal the favourite on clay, if an opponent is daft enough to believe otherwise the problem isn't with Nadal.
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Old 11-23-2011, 08:24 AM   #163
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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So Nadal should admit that he's the best on clay and any opponent doesn't even have 1% of his talent?

If Nadal makes a comment that puts the pressure on his opponents – how about this – they can do the same. Everyone knows Nadal the favourite on clay, if an opponent is daft enough to believe otherwise the problem isn't with Nadal.
That's not the point. Of course the opponent is daft if he believes that Nadal is not the favorite but the point is Nadal is still playing mind games and therefore guilty of off court gamesmanship as well, regardless of how his opponent reacts to this.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:30 PM   #164
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

Surely Roger. He was so nice, he gifted Nadal that 3 games .
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:15 PM   #165
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Default Re: Who deserves to win the 2011 Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award?

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I disagree. There are no stated rules tennis, or perhaps most, if not all, sports, mandating players to be polite to each other off-court. However, there are tons of rules put in place to police on-court behaviour to ensure fair play as far as possible. Tennis players are not obliged to be nice to each other when they're not playing a match, but they are obliged to follow the stated rules of the sport that they choose to play. Whatever they choose to say off court is their own business, and it's entirely on them if they choose to say things that make themselves look like sore losers, etc. But it's not at all up to them to break the rules of the game.

And of course, tennis is traditionally a gentleman's sport, and thus players are expected to behave like gentlemen - on court. Off court, again, it's really their own problem. Mouthing off at opponents in post-match interviews makes a player look like a sore loser, but it's nothing compared to time-delaying tactics employed during a match with the intention of disrupting your opponent's rhythm, or even throwing a hissy fit when you're losing a match.

Also, while I agree that Rog isn't always the most gracious loser, I think Nadal has had his moments as well.
The problem here is that you think it's a given that nadal and djokovic break the rules. But they don't. Otherwise they would be warned and fined, that's why the rules exist. All you people say are pressumptions based on your like/dislike of a player. The rules are there for the umpires and officials to impose them and if they don't it's their own fault. Rafa and Nole have received numerous warnings for the time they take to serve but I don't believe that's deliberate or gamesmanship, it's completely unconscious from their part, they can't help it, and I don't see why that is breaking the rules.
And medical time outs? they're there for a reason, they're completely legal. Retirements? same thing. So on what base do you accuse them of gamesmanship? It's all bollocks.
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