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Old 10-30-2011, 10:17 PM   #46
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

I am sorry for asking many questions, I am trying to feel the Serbian society in late 80s and 90s.

When violence erupted in 90s. Did church and leaders tell people to stop it? Were most people happy, shocked, or apologists? What was the reaction in media, in universities, what did famous writers say? Whom they blamed?
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:32 PM   #47
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

Medias were all controlled by Milosevic, so they were saying whatever they were ordered to. I don't remember there was some kind of uniform message from the church, anyway, in Serbia nobody cares what the church says.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:32 PM   #48
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

Stop clowning Cleo.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:34 PM   #49
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Sweet Cleopatra View Post
I am sorry for asking many questions, I am trying to feel the Serbian society in late 80s and 90s.

When violence erupted in 90s. Did church and leaders tell people to stop it? Were most people happy, shocked, or apologists? What was the reaction in media, in universities, what did famous writers say? Whom they blamed?
The issue I have here is that you only ask about Serbs. What about Croats, Albanians Bosnian Muslims, Slovenes, or international politicians and media outlets?

I mean, this kind of tone is what leads so many Serbs to bridle at any political discussion, because it's far from a level playing field, and you're approaching the history with a firmly entrenched position that the Serbs (Serb politicians, society, intellectuals, church, etc.) have some special explanation they owe to others.

No one has explained to us why Yugoslavia had to be destroyed and why its destruction was so encouraged by Western and Islamic powers.

No one has explained to us why WWII genocide against the Serbian people has been dismissed and systematically covered up. There have been no reparations, compensations, or anything from the political inheritor of the responsibility for that genocide, which is Croatia and to some degree Croatia's mentors, the Holy See and Germany. People know about the Holocaust and Armenian genocide. Do they know about the genocide of the Serbs in the NDH? No, most do not.

No one has explained to us why only Serbia - of all ex-Yu republics - had to have a part of it (Kosovo) torn away, yet when Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia protested the secession of those countries from Yugoslavia, their pleas and demands were met with silence, ridicule, lies, accusations, expulsions, bombs, and mass murder.

No one has explained to us why Western media resorted to grotesque lies and propaganda a la 250,000 dead Muslims in Bosnia, "death camps," Dubrovnik razed to the ground out of sheer malice, 100,000 killed Kosovo Albanian men, Kosovo Albanians being disposed of in acid vats at the Trepca mine, and 60,000 raped Muslim women. Those were total forgeries and lies and completely pointless, since the wars were bad enough as it is.

No one has explained to us why the Jewish community in the West was so vehemently in bed with the propagandists, avidly supporting erstwhile WWII Nazi collaborators (who had murdered their own people, as well as the Serbs, in death camps like Jasenovac) in their bids for independent Serbenfrei states, even while Israel hypocritically continued ethnically discriminatory policies in the occupied territories that went far beyond any policy of Milosevic.

You know, we're still waiting for answers to our own questions. And it isn't "Milosevic."
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:58 PM   #50
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloimeh View Post
The issue I have here is that you only ask about Serbs. What about Croats, Albanians Bosnian Muslims, Slovenes, or international politicians and media outlets?

I mean, this kind of tone is what leads so many Serbs to bridle at any political discussion, because it's far from a level playing field, and you're approaching the history with a firmly entrenched position that the Serbs (Serb politicians, society, intellectuals, church, etc.) have some special explanation they owe to others.

No one has explained to us why Yugoslavia had to be destroyed and why its destruction was so encouraged by Western and Islamic powers.

No one has explained to us why WWII genocide against the Serbian people has been dismissed and systematically covered up. There have been no reparations, compensations, or anything from the political inheritor of the responsibility for that genocide, which is Croatia and to some degree Croatia's mentors, the Holy See and Germany. People know about the Holocaust and Armenian genocide. Do they know about the genocide of the Serbs in the NDH? No, most do not.

No one has explained to us why only Serbia - of all ex-Yu republics - had to have a part of it (Kosovo) torn away, yet when Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia protested the secession of those countries from Yugoslavia, their pleas and demands were met with silence, ridicule, lies, accusations, expulsions, bombs, and mass murder.

No one has explained to us why Western media resorted to grotesque lies and propaganda a la 250,000 dead Muslims in Bosnia, "death camps," Dubrovnik razed to the ground out of sheer malice, 100,000 killed Kosovo Albanian men, Kosovo Albanians being disposed of in acid vats at the Trepca mine, and 60,000 raped Muslim women. Those were total forgeries and lies and completely pointless, since the wars were bad enough as it is.

No one has explained to us why the Jewish community in the West was so vehemently in bed with the propagandists, avidly supporting erstwhile WWII Nazi collaborators (who had murdered their own people, as well as the Serbs, in death camps like Jasenovac) in their bids for independent Serbenfrei states, even while Israel hypocritically continued ethnically discriminatory policies in the occupied territories that went far beyond any policy of Milosevic.

You know, we're still waiting for answers to our own questions. And it isn't "Milosevic."
I am asking Serbs not cause I condemn them, I never generalize any way to say Serbs are good or bad. I just want to understand the Serbian society at that time, and to feel myself a Serbian in 90s. I am just starting to read about Balkan history and I know when things are complicated, I have to feel all sides before reaching conclusions. Serbs in the forum are many, so I decided to start with asking Serbs in the forum.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:53 PM   #51
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

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Originally Posted by @Sweet Cleopatra View Post
I am asking Serbs not cause I condemn them, I never generalize any way to say Serbs are good or bad. I just want to understand the Serbian society at that time, and to feel myself a Serbian in 90s. I am just starting to read about Balkan history and I know when things are complicated, I have to feel all sides before reaching conclusions. Serbs in the forum are many, so I decided to start with asking Serbs in the forum.
Well, imagine living with average salary of $6 per month (1993) or $50-70 (1994-96, 98-2000), standing in line to get flour, sugar, bread, oil, medicines, imagine paying 2$ for 1l of shitty gasoline that will most likely kill your engine, imagine banks refusing to give any of the money you might had saved in them, and you will feel yourself a Serbian of the 90s
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:04 AM   #52
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

This is a subject I want to investigate... Have any Croatian's or Serbs seen the documentary 'the weight of chains' and if so is it a fair and balanced view on the conflict. I worked with a Croatian who was in the war, he hated it, didnt want the war but said it was just the way it was, he said the people of the old Yugoslavia were much better off, the economy was stronger before joining the euro... I don't know much about it or the politics but from the way I see it I'd say the Croatians were more the good guys in the war as they stood their ground and defended their land, not invade others. But like I said I'm not 100% sure, just seems that way to me.
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:09 AM   #53
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

Be very careful when throwing around "good guys" and "bad guys" because even if your opinion was hypothetically right, people here will get angry because these issues bring up a lot of painful memories.
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:20 AM   #54
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloimeh View Post

No one has explained to us why Western media resorted to grotesque lies and propaganda a la 250,000 dead Muslims in Bosnia, "death camps," Dubrovnik razed to the ground out of sheer malice, 100,000 killed Kosovo Albanian men, Kosovo Albanians being disposed of in acid vats at the Trepca mine, and 60,000 raped Muslim women. Those were total forgeries and lies and completely pointless, since the wars were bad enough as it is.
We know that these were lies, A Croatian who fought against Serbia told me that this never happened and he was their fighting against them, so even he admits there was propaganda coming out from corrupt western media. I don't know about the fight between Croatia and Serbia, I'm pretty neutral between them but would probaly back Croatia if I had to choose, but I support both of them against these albanians invading there land from the south, they can fuck off back into turkey and asia, Yugoslavia had enough problems without them coming to leech.
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:24 AM   #55
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

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Be very careful when throwing around "good guys" and "bad guys" because even if your opinion was hypothetically right, people here will get angry because these issues bring up a lot of painful memories.
I know, i said i don't really know much about the conflict, I don't want to sound like i'm lecturing people from these lands about who is right and wrong, they known better than anyone, theres always two sides to each story though...
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:30 AM   #56
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

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This is a subject I want to investigate... Have any Croatian's or Serbs seen the documentary 'the weight of chains' and if so is it a fair and balanced view on the conflict. I worked with a Croatian who was in the war, he hated it, didnt want the war but said it was just the way it was, he said the people of the old Yugoslavia were much better off, the economy was stronger before joining the euro... I don't know much about it or the politics but from the way I see it I'd say the Croatians were more the good guys in the war as they stood their ground and defended their land, not invade others. But like I said I'm not 100% sure, just seems that way to me.
Serbs have been present in Croatia since the 1300s and a major presence since the 1500s. Before WWII they were a full 1/4 of the population of Croatia (all parts, particularly Slavonia and Dalmatia). Today they are 4%. It is these kinds of facts that you were not told by the media because they were inconvenient. So the conflict in Croatia was one between Croats and the native Serbs minority (which had support from Serbia, naturally). In that sense, it was very much a civil war, except rather than political ideologies being the division (as in Spain), it was religion (as in Northern Ireland) and ethnicity (as in Georgia).
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:39 AM   #57
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by merryploughbhoy View Post
This is a subject I want to investigate... Have any Croatian's or Serbs seen the documentary 'the weight of chains' and if so is it a fair and balanced view on the conflict. I worked with a Croatian who was in the war, he hated it, didnt want the war but said it was just the way it was, he said the people of the old Yugoslavia were much better off, the economy was stronger before joining the euro... I don't know much about it or the politics but from the way I see it I'd say the Croatians were more the good guys in the war as they stood their ground and defended their land, not invade others. But like I said I'm not 100% sure, just seems that way to me.
"Yugoslavia - The Avoidable War" gives a generally leftist perspective but has A LOT of information which would be useful to anyone who wants to know more. I believe it's a Western production. It's basically night and day from what the media told you.

I've never watched Malagurski's movie.
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:52 AM   #58
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

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Originally Posted by Aloimeh View Post
Serbs have been present in Croatia since the 1300s and a major presence since the 1500s. Before WWII they were a full 1/4 of the population of Croatia (all parts, particularly Slavonia and Dalmatia). Today they are 4%. It is these kinds of facts that you were not told by the media because they were inconvenient. So the conflict in Croatia was one between Croats and the native Serbs minority (which had support from Serbia, naturally). In that sense, it was very much a civil war, except rather than political ideologies being the division (as in Spain), it was religion (as in Northern Ireland) and ethnicity (as in Georgia).
Thats the exact thought I had and why I said i was'nt sure, I knew that there could be heavy distortion in the way we are led to believe from the outside, For me I understand how these things go and the false picture that gets painted to people on the outside - Ireland and the way the british would make you believe that they are keeping peace when infact they have simply invaded and colonised (as many nations have seen and been victims of the savagery of their empire)
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:57 AM   #59
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

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Originally Posted by Aloimeh View Post
"Yugoslavia - The Avoidable War" gives a generally leftist perspective but has A LOT of information which would be useful to anyone who wants to know more. I believe it's a Western production. It's basically night and day from what the media told you.

I've never watched Malagurski's movie.
I'll find that and watch it. One thing I don't want to do is stumble on some documentary and make an assumption based on one biased view point because I know how twisted and far from the truth people can make these conflicts sound.
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Old 11-01-2011, 05:13 AM   #60
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Default Re: Do you Serbs regret ideas of Milosovic?

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We know that these were lies, A Croatian who fought against Serbia told me that this never happened and he was their fighting against them, so even he admits there was propaganda coming out from corrupt western media. I don't know about the fight between Croatia and Serbia, I'm pretty neutral between them but would probaly back Croatia if I had to choose, but I support both of them against these albanians invading there land from the south, they can fuck off back into turkey and asia, Yugoslavia had enough problems without them coming to leech.
don't talk bullshit unless you have your facts to back you up.

modern day Albanians are a mix of Illyrians (and maybe other prehistoric Balkan people, such as Dacians or Thracians), Vlachs, Greeks, Slavic people and Turks.
in other words, Albanians are Europeans, not Asians. drill what i said into your brain. is that clear?

actually, many areas in the Balkans have mixed population. blame the Byzantine (East Roman) Empire and the Ottoman Empire. i, for instance, am an Athenian of Greek ancestry, Albanian ancestry (Albanians settled in the Peloponnese in the early 15th century) and distant Slavic ancestry (South Slavs settled in the Peloponnese in the 8th century). and, i consider myself very lucky to be mixed.
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