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Old 10-14-2011, 03:31 PM   #31
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Post Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
Yes, Simon has talent. Anyone who knows tennis knows he has talent, but people on this board generally don't know anything about tennis.

And I never said that these guys like Dodig or Ebden have no talent. I said they lack talent in relation to their rankings and contemporaries, and in relation to talented players who aren't in the top 100, who would be better in the top 100 as they bring something interesting to the court. Deserving a top 100 spot or not is irrelevant, since that isn't what I'm discussing. People should want the best top 100 there is, and have the best players playing the best players, not settle for mediocrity.
I totally agree with the Gilles Simon assessment as I am a fan and also feel that his talent deserves more recognition on these boards then continuously being referred to as a pusher, however you persistence to mention the rankings is bemusing. The reason why the rankings are done a system were ranking points accumulate and take effect is so that the most deserving top 100 players are there, if there not the best then so be it, your argument will soon be to get all the players to do an evaluation balls drill and hand pick the ranking on ball striking ability.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:32 PM   #32
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by green25814 View Post
Funny how every poster who says this happens to be gay/female
Funny how straight guys and lesbians can't see talent.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
Yes, Simon has talent. Anyone who knows tennis knows he has talent, but people on this board generally don't know anything about tennis.
There are plenty of ignorant people here, but what sets you apart? I've played tennis since the age of 8, and wanted to do it professionally but flaired my back. What have you done? Seriously stop being so arrogant FFS.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by HattonWBA View Post
Your posts are ridiculous, I understand and appreciate your constructive criticism of ebden’s game but the talent remarks are pathetic. He plays tennis to win matches, prize money and therefore ranking points. But your comment about Ebden frustrating you because more talented players are lower ranked is laughable. What do you ant him to do? Tank matches and let more talented players (debatable of course with your tennis knowledge!) leap frog him. He may not be the most naturally gifted player out there, but who cares as long as his work ethic and application is always evident, that counts for as much as talent does in my estimation and can often be just the more endearing.
My tennis knowledge is above about 95% of the forum, so there isn't any debate in what I'm saying. I'm not even being disrespectful, he's earned his position, I respect that. He's doing what he has to do, yeah, win matches, but I WISH he wouldn't have won those matches so he could remain out of the top 100. So, I'm not hating on him being there, but the situation itself. And as for hard work, I don't watch tennis to see hard-workers, I see tennis to watch talented professionals playing the game. So, of course, I going to root against lesser talents making the top 100 and be a little bitter should they make it.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:34 PM   #35
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by davidrafael View Post
Don't take it from me, Listen to what Murray has to say:

Murray, the second seed, said he was both familiar with Ebden's game and impressed by it. "I know quite a lot about him,'' Murray said. "He had a good start to the year. He qualified last week in Tokyo. I've seen him play a couple of times.

"He's got a nice game. He's quite effortless. He's talented.'

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/tenni...#ixzz1alnBQkxI
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:34 PM   #36
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by davidrafael View Post
Don't take it from me, Listen to what Murray has to say:

Murray, the second seed, said he was both familiar with Ebden's game and impressed by it. "I know quite a lot about him,'' Murray said. "He had a good start to the year. He qualified last week in Tokyo. I've seen him play a couple of times.

"He's got a nice game. He's quite effortless. He's talented.'

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/tenni...#ixzz1alnBQkxI
Ebden sounds like a good player according to Andy. Sounds pretty talented.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:35 PM   #37
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by green25814 View Post
There are plenty of ignorant people here, but what sets you apart? I've played tennis since the age of 8, and wanted to do it professionally but flaired my back. What have you done? Seriously stop being so arrogant FFS.
My tennis knowledge, and knowledge in general, sets me apart.

You've never been one of the many stupid ones, though. So you shouldn't take offense, since I'm not talking about you.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:36 PM   #38
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

Players say nice things about each other, in being PC. So, take almost everything they say with a grain of salt.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:38 PM   #39
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
My tennis knowledge, and knowledge in general, sets me apart.
You've never been one of the many stupid ones, though. So you shouldn't take offense, since I'm not talking about you.
Look, I'm not taking offense personally but do you not see how comments like these might irritate people? Jeez
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:39 PM   #40
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
Davidrafael, your post I totally respect, but at the end of the day, I'm not a professional player, and these guys are. And some are better than others. Watching low talent players make the top 100 over talented players is not something I enjoy, nor will I ever do so. When I say a player sucks, it's relative to the place in their rankings in comparison to what there real ability level is, and also in comparison to their peers.

Bottom line is, Kukushkin, Dodig, Ebden among others, are bad players in relation to their peers and when looking at their rankings, ability wise, there isn't any reason to be there. Hard-work is all well and good, but that doesn't make a player talented nor interesting. I like players who bring something to the table. Hard-work is hard-work, but that's not bringing anything of note to the table on the court. It's not making me want to follow that player or watch them play. Can they play tennis? That's what I'm focused on. And some players play tennis better than others. That's all it comes down to.
But shouldn't you applaud variety? Watching players play a tennis masterclass match every single time would get boring too. It's better to have variety and see different game styles being used.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:40 PM   #41
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
Yes, Simon has talent. Anyone who knows tennis knows he has talent, but people on this board generally don't know anything about tennis.

And I never said that these guys like Dodig or Ebden have no talent. I said they lack talent in relation to their rankings and contemporaries, and in relation to talented players who aren't in the top 100, who would be better in the top 100 as they bring something interesting to the court. Deserving a top 100 spot or not is irrelevant, since that isn't what I'm discussing. People should want the best top 100 there is, and have the best players playing the best players, not settle for mediocrity.
You missed my point. You don't make it to the tour if you don't have some of talent, no matter how hard you work, this is clear.

Yes, you are denigrating players who win matches deserving their ranking cause you don't like them. Got a proposition for you. Will you not react when someone bags a player you like? If you can't do that, then you shouldn't be go around saying this player has nothing to offer.

There are no extra points for talent or looking good. Results judge who is in the top 100, nothing more and nothing less.

Ebden deserves his QF spot here as a qualifier because he won matches it wasn't cause of mediocrity. Why post here to rip on his result, when you'd be first to complain others are haters.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:40 PM   #42
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Post Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
My tennis knowledge is above about 95% of the forum, so there isn't any debate in what I'm saying. I'm not even being disrespectful, he's earned his position, I respect that. He's doing what he has to do, yeah, win matches, but I WISH he wouldn't have won those matches so he could remain out of the top 100. So, I'm not hating on him being there, but the situation itself. And as for hard work, I don't watch tennis to see hard-workers, I see tennis to watch talented professionals playing the game. So, of course, I going to root against lesser talents making the top 100 and be a little bitter should they make it.
I understand that. And your opinion is absolutely fine as are anyone’s, and i generally find no problems with your posts, in fact quite the opposite.

However on this specific subject i don’t understand the need to continuously moan about Ebden's ranking in relation to his talent on every thread made with his name on. Maybe you should be focusing more on criticising these more talented guys instead? Why are they not getting to MS QF's, why are they not 80 in the world? What can they improve to surpass ebden’s achievements and reflect their superiority?
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Old 10-14-2011, 03:50 PM   #43
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

I understand your point Filo that you don't want to watch hardworkers which arent shotmakers. I respect that. But no one is asking you to go and watch them. Just don't go slagging their achivements off or saying they don't deserve their ranking. And just because you don't like to watch them doesn't mean they don't have talent.

As you've mentioned you understand quite alot about tennis, then surely you would understand theres many more facets that complete a tennis player other than just raw shotmaking.

Gublis is a raw shotmaker, why's he 51 in the world? Why is Bogomolov 38?

Who would i rather go watch, Gulbis or Bogomolov? Gulbis because he brings shotmaking, flair and personality to the game, but that doesn't undermine Bogomolov's achivements in the game.
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:10 PM   #44
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

Why is everyone arguing with someone who thinks numerous players in the top 100 have no talent and that hard workers don't deserve to be higher ranked than mentally frail/physically weak/lazy talented players?

It's not that the majority of MTF lacks tennis knowledge, it's actually the minority that stand out due to the rubbish etched all over their posts and drag everyone else down with them. Just look at this thread as an example, 1 or 2 who don't have a clue but mask it with fake confidence, while the rest who actually know what they're talking about set them straight.

Anyway, Ebden deserves whatever he achieves as Tennis is about making the most of what you have, developing your game and winning, not the capacity of your talent. He played great this week and will more that likely improve from here.
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Old 10-14-2011, 04:20 PM   #45
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Default Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

Apparently everyone missed the thread where Filo extolled the virtues of greed and condemn the evils of government and public goods. It's best just to put him on ignore.
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