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View Poll Results: Which of these compulsory 1000 level events would you drop

05.03.2012 - Hard - BNP Paribas Open, Indian Wells, USA 10 7.09%
23.03.2011 - Hard - Sony Ericsson Open, Miami, USA 16 11.35%
01.05.2011 - Clay - Mutua Madrid Open, Madrid, Spain 14 9.93%
08.05.2011 - Clay - Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome, Italy 10 7.09%
08.08.2011 - Hard - Rogers Cup, Montreal, Canada 6 4.26%
14.08.2011 - Hard - Western & Southern Open, Cincinnati, USA 20 14.18%
09.10.2011 - Hard - Shanghai Rolex Masters, Shanghai, China 48 34.04%
07.11.2011 - Hard - BNP Paribas Masters - Paris, France 17 12.06%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-20-2011, 11:57 AM   #901
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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I can't see the tour going for anything where the top players face off against each other less than they do now. How do you market and sell a product if you can't guarantee there will be events where all the best will be together. There are issues with the schedule for sure but I don't think the number of events the top players play is a problem. Top players have the opportunity to take breaks after AO and especially after Wimbledon and the US Open. After Wimbledon the top players can basically take a month off, after the US Open/DC they get 3 weeks off until Shanghai. Seems to me the only way to get a longer off season for top players would be to move WTF up to after the US Open (maybe after Shanghai) and end the season there for the top 8.
They will be together in slams, Davis Cup (more than they are now), & the WTF, guaranteed. Those are the competitions that matter to anybody outside a small minority of tennis fanatics anyway. If the top players want decent match-play before the slams they'll also be together in the bigger clay tune-ups, the grass-court tune-ups (which in my opinion should be upgraded points-wise), & the bigger pre-Open tournaments too. And if they've qualified for WTF they'll probably want to play Paris, without having already exhausted themselves in Asia. The point is they will have a genuine choice, & won't have to play back-to-back Masters or 500s or less if they don't want to. They might still want to of course for ranking points or sentimental reasons (Nadal-Barcelona, Fed-Basel, Djoker-Belgrade), but they will no longer have any reason to complain.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:04 PM   #902
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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You need technique to be a steeplechaser, as for the schedule they bitched about this for 30 years but a whole lot of nothing will come out of it.

Naturally there needs to be less hardcourt events, but the powers to be don't have the best interests of the sport at heart. I mean look at how the ATP are structured says enough.
Okay, you need technique to be a steeplechaser.

Yeah I know, the powers-that-be need a rocket up the arse. My proposal for getting rid of mandatory tournaments outside slams, DC, WTF would only happen under an ATP that was genuinely representing players rather than tournament directors. The basic problem is that the ATP is run as though players exist for the benefit of the tournaments rather than vice versa. The only difference in practice under my proposals would be that guys wouldn't be playing tournaments they didn't want to play. You'd have fewer complaints, tankings, bail-outs, crap-outs, & injuries, without massively reducing player participation in ATP tournaments. In fact with fewer injuries you might get more overall participation.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:26 PM   #903
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Okay, you need technique to be a steeplechaser.

Yeah I know, the powers-that-be need a rocket up the arse. My proposal for getting rid of mandatory tournaments outside slams, DC, WTF would only happen under an ATP that was genuinely representing players rather than tournament directors. The basic problem is that the ATP is run as though players exist for the benefit of the tournaments rather than vice versa. The only difference in practice under my proposals would be that guys wouldn't be playing tournaments they didn't want to play. You'd have fewer complaints, tankings, bail-outs, crap-outs, & injuries, without massively reducing player participation in ATP tournaments. In fact with fewer injuries you might get more overall participation.
Well the ATP is definitely for the tournament directors. Here is something you might find interesting. It comes from Peter Luczak who was one of the player reps at the time. Not much has changed.

What do you think about the length of season? They have been talking for years about reducing the season, but nothing has changed in this regard. What steps can they take to fix the calendar?

This is bit of a tricky one. If you would have asked me the same question 8 years ago when I first started playing on the tour I would have answered it very differently. The only thing I wanted to do back then was play tournies and I'd be upset if there wasn't one on in a particular week. But now being a bit older the body getting a few injuries from all the pounding over the years and having a family I wish I could see more changes my view. I'd love it if we got bit more of an off season, that one month in December doesn't really cut it especially when you are training through it trying to get ready for the Aussie summer.

I'd love it if the season would be shortened to maybe 9 months, but how do you do that. Do you just cram all the tournies into that time period, or do you cancel 1/4 of the tournies. I know they have been talking about making the season shorter but the question is how you do it. Maybe you just gradually do it over many years. I know the Oz Open started a week later this year, maybe you just push it back one week every year and cut one week off at the end of the year for the next few years. But doing that is screws up other things. Like the Aussie would no longer be played during our holidays. Maybe less people and definitely less kids would be able to come out and watch. How do you fit all the tour events and DC in a 9 month period etc. So as nice as it sounds it would be a pretty difficult thing to do. In the end the players choose how long or short they make their season. But I think I could crap on about this question for a long time.

You were a vocal critic of the flawed Round Robin concept. It seems the ATP aren’t looking out for or listening to the interests of the players, and working more so for the tournament directors. What’s your take on it?

Round Robin was rubbish, it wasn’t a fair system. They said it was meant to be for the fans. I mean you win, you progress, you lose, and you go home, what is simpler than that. It makes little sense that you lose 2 matches and have a chance of still being in. They realised it wasn’t working and had to be scrapped.

Currently with the Council having the big 3 on there, they have more of a say than in the past. Problem is that a lot of the guys didn’t know that you could approach a Council member, if they are unhappy with any issue. In theory the Council should raise the issue at the next meetings, and then they can decide on whether to vote on the change or leave as it is.

Willy Cańas said “The ATP practices discrimination from an economic standpoint, like any multinational corporation. It’s just another of millions that there are in the world. Point being that I accept it, but I'm not buying into it that it is a group of players that decide (players union) because it isn't like that”. Do you believe that Willy is correct on this particular issue?

Yes, I agree to an extent. The tournament directors (TD’s) and the players are in conflict. An example of this was that the players voted for players that have come back from a drug ban, shouldn’t be awarded wild cards on the comeback, but the tournament directors didn’t want that and then the deciding vote went in favour of the tournament directors.

The TD’s are worried about putting on a show and it’s a business for them, they have a different agenda, no tournament = no players, no players = no tournaments. The TD’s had too much power and it was important that the ATP won the lawsuit against Hamburg, we should be attempting to work together. At the moment there is too much conflict between the two groups, who are standing off against each other and I am unsure of how to fix it.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:39 PM   #904
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

Its the slow hardcourts which really kill them. We need more clay, grass, and carpet.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:57 PM   #905
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Its the slow hardcourts which really kill them. We need more grass, and carpet.
No more clay needed. There's enough of it already. Nadal survived pretty much on his clay points only at the beginning of his career so there's definitely enough clay. I say there's too much even.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:01 PM   #906
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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No more clay needed. There's enough of it already. Nadal survived pretty much on his clay points only at the beginning of his career so there's definitely enough clay. I say there's too much even.
Whats that got to do with anything? Clay has its place, its where grinding and athleticism should thrive since its easy on the body. Nadal might pick up more points but he'd also lose some with fewer slow hardcourts.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:05 PM   #907
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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No more clay needed. There's enough of it already. Nadal survived pretty much on his clay points only at the beginning of his career so there's definitely enough clay. I say there's too much even.
Most of the big events are on hardcourt, there are more hardcourts events in fact they dominate far too much.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:25 PM   #908
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Well the ATP is definitely for the tournament directors. Here is something you might find interesting. It comes from Peter Luczak who was one of the player reps at the time. Not much has changed.
Thanks, interesting stuff, & it's clear nothing has changed. They obviously need to appoint me as C.E.O.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:32 PM   #909
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Thanks, interesting stuff, & it's clear nothing has changed. They obviously need to appoint me as C.E.O.
Dana White, he could put these people in submission holds, but thought you'd like those extracts.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:58 PM   #910
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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They will be together in slams, Davis Cup (more than they are now), & the WTF, guaranteed. Those are the competitions that matter to anybody outside a small minority of tennis fanatics anyway. If the top players want decent match-play before the slams they'll also be together in the bigger clay tune-ups, the grass-court tune-ups (which in my opinion should be upgraded points-wise), & the bigger pre-Open tournaments too. And if they've qualified for WTF they'll probably want to play Paris, without having already exhausted themselves in Asia. The point is they will have a genuine choice, & won't have to play back-to-back Masters or 500s or less if they don't want to. They might still want to of course for ranking points or sentimental reasons (Nadal-Barcelona, Fed-Basel, Djoker-Belgrade), but they will no longer have any reason to complain.
honestly I don't think the top guys really have a reason to complain about the schedule as it is now, other than DC which as I previously said I think should only be every 2 or 4 years. If you just look at slams and masters 1000 events the top guys basically get 5 weeks off after AO, 5 weeks off after Wimbledon and 5 weeks off after the US Open. Sure I'd like it better if RG and Wimbledon weren't right next to each other and we could have a proper grass season. But which one of those will move it's spot in the calendar. The answer is neither.

If Murray doesn't think there is a proper 'off season' then he should advocate moving WTF up to early October and ending the season for the top 8 after that. Then the rest of the season can be everyone else, and if someone in the top 8 still wants to play (e.g. Fed & Basel) they can do so. Or they can pack it in for the year.

I'm curious though are the top 5-10 playing more matches than the top 5-10 did in the past? It seems to me the issue is more the # of matches played on slow hard courts than the # of matches played over all.
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:03 PM   #911
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Its the slow hardcourts which really kill them. We need more clay, grass, and carpet.
I get why there are so many hard court events ($$), but I don't get why so many of the hard court surfaces are so slow, other than tournament directors think fans want lots of long rallies. Isn't there a happy medium between boring serve fests and boring baseline rallies?
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:08 PM   #912
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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honestly I don't think the top guys really have a reason to complain about the schedule as it is now, other than DC which as I previously said I think should only be every 2 or 4 years. If you just look at slams and masters 1000 events the top guys basically get 5 weeks off after AO, 5 weeks off after Wimbledon and 5 weeks off after the US Open. Sure I'd like it better if RG and Wimbledon weren't right next to each other and we could have a proper grass season. But which one of those will move it's spot in the calendar. The answer is neither.

If Murray doesn't think there is a proper 'off season' then he should advocate moving WTF up to early October and ending the season for the top 8 after that. Then the rest of the season can be everyone else, and if someone in the top 8 still wants to play (e.g. Fed & Basel) they can do so. Or they can pack it in for the year.

I'm curious though are the top 5-10 playing more matches than the top 5-10 did in the past? It seems to me the issue is more the # of matches played on slow hard courts than the # of matches played over all.
As I understood it Murray's main complaint was about the number of mandatory & counted tournaments. My impression is some top players have a problem with the schedule & some don't, & my proposal gives them the option to reduce their schedule without beyond a certain point damaging their rankings. Surely that's fair?

The trouble with moving WTF to early October is that you don't get a proper indoor season culminating in the WTF.
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Old 09-20-2011, 02:46 PM   #913
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Okay, you need technique to be a steeplechaser.

Yeah I know, the powers-that-be need a rocket up the arse. My proposal for getting rid of mandatory tournaments outside slams, DC, WTF would only happen under an ATP that was genuinely representing players rather than tournament directors. The basic problem is that the ATP is run as though players exist for the benefit of the tournaments rather than vice versa.
ATP Prize Money last year : ~$100,000,000
Combined earnings of Fedal last year : ~$80,000,000
Appearance fee from Bangkok for Nadal : ~$1,000,000
Players earning more than $1,000,000 last year : ~40

Under your system, the prize money for everyone outside the top 5 would plummet and the earnings of the mega stars would go up.

Great system.

The lower ranked players would be better off in a system where they are reward a salary based on there ranking rather than a system that encourages them to lose in the 1R in every tournament possible.
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:11 PM   #914
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Under your system, the prize money for everyone outside the top 5 would plummet and the earnings of the mega stars would go up.
Why?
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:27 PM   #915
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Former world number two Michael Stich has criticised suggestions from Andy Murray that tennis players could strike over what they consider to be an overcrowded schedule.

"These tournaments provide them with jobs and an income," the 1991 Wimbledon champion told BBC Radio 5 live.

"I don't think the complaint is a good one. I didn't complain - and I played in tournament singles and doubles."

Former British tennis chief David Felgate believes strikes are unlikely.

On Monday, Murray told BBC Sport: "We just want things to change, really small things. Two or three weeks during the year, a few less tournaments each year, which I don't think is unreasonable."


But Stich says the bodies that govern tennis - and the tournaments that make up its calendar - support its professionals.

He added: "I don't think it is a big issue. They are not playing more than we did 10 or 15 years ago and they have shorter seasons than we used to.

"When people like Stefan Edberg played in singles and doubles at Grand Slams, they [just] did their job. Andy Murray doesn't even play four rounds of Davis Cup each year.

"It's not down to the tournaments and the ATP [Association of Tennis Professionals], it's down to the players themselves. Perhaps they need to look out for their bodies and pick their tournaments better?

Stich, who said he sits on the board of some tournaments, added: "They should never forget this is a partnership.

"If they were to go on strike, they should think what would happen if the tournaments went on strike. They would have no career, no income, no profession. It [striking] is not a good solution."

Felgate - the former performance director at the Lawn Tennis Association, who has also sat on the performance board at the ATP - stressed that discontent from players over the schedule was an ongoing story.

He said: "I don't think we'll see a strike, certainly not from the Grand Slams. The guys aren't about to miss them.


"The biggest issue is where the Davis Cup falls after a Grand Slam - what we saw the guys having to do last week.

"The majority of players quite like those matches a week after [a Grand Slam] because most of them have lost halfway through. It is a problem.

"I don't know [what can change]. The conversation has gone on for years. There are so many factions. There's the ITF [International Tennis Federation], the four Grand Slams - who are all separate entities - then the ATP.

"You would hope they could all get together to sort it out but it's a cyclical story that just continues.

"The difficulty is, a lot of these tournaments are owned by people - you can't just shut them down. They would have to be a bought and taken off the tour to create more space."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/14985897.stm

Michael Stich criticizes Murray's comments and brings up some good points. Players can just schedule more wisely.
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