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View Poll Results: Which of these compulsory 1000 level events would you drop

05.03.2012 - Hard - BNP Paribas Open, Indian Wells, USA 10 7.09%
23.03.2011 - Hard - Sony Ericsson Open, Miami, USA 16 11.35%
01.05.2011 - Clay - Mutua Madrid Open, Madrid, Spain 14 9.93%
08.05.2011 - Clay - Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome, Italy 10 7.09%
08.08.2011 - Hard - Rogers Cup, Montreal, Canada 6 4.26%
14.08.2011 - Hard - Western & Southern Open, Cincinnati, USA 20 14.18%
09.10.2011 - Hard - Shanghai Rolex Masters, Shanghai, China 48 34.04%
07.11.2011 - Hard - BNP Paribas Masters - Paris, France 17 12.06%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-19-2011, 10:29 PM   #886
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

Just let the lower ranked players play in Davis Cup. If the top guys are too tired or can't be bothered, then fuck 'em
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:33 AM   #887
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

Surprise surprise the divas are complaining about DC. It will never go to 2 years because of a bunch of babies who think it's a chore. They wanted ranking points got it, they wanted the ties to be played at this time, yet they aren't happy with that either. DC isn't going to change when it's one of the main revenue streams for the ITF.

Should they strike, well since they don't have a proper players union and the season is too long as it is. Of course more physical style of tennis on hardcourts which dominate the tour that have less give on the joints, it's hardly surprising in a speed endurance event with a lack of an off season that there will be lots of injuries.

There are many other things that need addressing, the divas get enough protection at TMS events with byes. How about giving more money to the challenger events which hasn't increased relatively since the ATP were formed.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:14 AM   #888
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

F*ck the 'player union'! f*ck Murray, f*ck Nadal, f*ck Roddick, f*ck Fed & Djokovic too for staying quiet! F*ck all top players that can't stop whining! F*ck you all, too!

Bunch of divas, these mugs. Don't like your job? quit. There'll be other stars to replace you. If f*cking Federer could dominate the tour, played, and won so much for 4 years straight without getting seriously injured, then that means the schedule is reasonable. If freakin' ballerina Fed could do it, why couldn't spartan Nadal, big biceps Murray, and.. ..Roddick do it also? Stop playing unnecessary tournaments if your body can't take it! Want the same amount of money for less work, eh? F*ck you!
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:31 AM   #889
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Action Jackson View Post
Surprise surprise the divas are complaining about DC. It will never go to 2 years because of a bunch of babies who think it's a chore. They wanted ranking points got it, they wanted the ties to be played at this time, yet they aren't happy with that either. DC isn't going to change when it's one of the main revenue streams for the ITF.

Should they strike, well since they don't have a proper players union and the season is too long as it is. Of course more physical style of tennis on hardcourts which dominate the tour that have less give on the joints, it's hardly surprising in a speed endurance event with a lack of an off season that there will be lots of injuries.

There are many other things that need addressing, the divas get enough protection at TMS events with byes. How about giving more money to the challenger events which hasn't increased relatively since the ATP were formed.
I agree with this sentiment.. Especially the part about TMS which is beyond ridiculous. Everybody should need to win the same amount of matches(except qualies ofc) to win a tournament of that dignity. Don't want to play TMS? Don't play then. They already got rid of the five-set finals, they already made Monte Carlo optional. What's next? Rafa, Andrew et al. are privileged athletes yet all you get to see are the bitter tears of 'too many tournaments'. Especially from someone like Murray who doesn't even try to compete in more than half of the tournaments he play, it's laughable. With Rafa I have a little more understanding as he gives it his all out there everytime, but like I said: don't play then.
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:39 AM   #890
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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I agree with this sentiment.. Especially the part about TMS which is beyond ridiculous. Everybody should need to win the same amount of matches(except qualies ofc) to win a tournament of that dignity. Don't want to play TMS? Don't play then. They already got rid of the five-set finals, they already made Monte Carlo optional. What's next? Rafa, Andrew et al. are privileged athletes yet all you get to see are the bitter tears of 'too many tournaments'. Especially from someone like Murray who doesn't even try to compete in more than half of the tournaments he play, it's laughable. With Rafa I have a little more understanding as he gives it his all out there everytime, but like I said: don't play then.
TMS events should have best of 5 final and not be back to back, but the crybabies didn't want that. Got to work the schedule out as it is, the top guys can afford to rest whereas the others have to play more due to economics.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:44 AM   #891
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

I agree there's a lot of whining going on here.

Here's some things to consider:

The game has slowed down across nearly all surfaces over the course of the last decade, either due to changes in the surface, the racquets, the strings, the balls used, combinations of all these have made points longer, rallies longer and harder on the body due to the continued shift to hardcourt. This is something that has suited the players and at times, they have demanded this process continue - witness the change to Paris a couple of years ago which they admitted was pretty much done because Federer and Nadal did not like the surface.

If they want to reduce wear and tear then they need to be looking to develop more aggressive play styles but they also need to be pushing for at least SOME of the tour to be about faster playing conditions - quick surfaces, lighter balls, whatever - that encourage and reward faster play. It can be done. Paris last year is an example where the surface was unusually quick and led to some very entertaining tennis.

The ranking structure needs to change. Best of 18 as it currently is, with the conditions on the top players, means they are pretty much mandated to play 4 slams, 8 masters, 4 500 and 2 250 events, or risk being disadvantaged compared to their rivals. This is now too rigid. It's also worth keeping in mind that all these tournaments want guaranteed big names - as big as they can get. To be a top player is to be under pressure to deliver for the tour at all levels, not just the slams, but the 250s as well. In some cases they need to learn to say no better but it would be easier if they did something about appearance fees and adjusted the requirement to play 18 tournaments.

The complaints about Davis Cup scheduling have been nothing new but the current schedule is entirely of the players own making - they pushed for these week-after-slam dates in the first place and people like Federer and Nadal were at the forefront of that so Nadal's complaints last week come off more than a little stupid.

They should be doing more anyway to promote more than the top 4 - sometimes you'd be forgiven for thinking that the rest of the tour is irrelevant, they need to share the wealth and the recognition lower down the social scale.
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Old 09-20-2011, 09:47 AM   #892
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

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Originally Posted by TBkeeper View Post
I dont understand a shit about rafa's bitching ...
Davydenko played 30+ tournaments for 4-5 years and is still playing nearly every week and he doesn't bitch at all...
He's also totally fucked.
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:14 AM   #893
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
I agree there's a lot of whining going on here.

Here's some things to consider:

The game has slowed down across nearly all surfaces over the course of the last decade, either due to changes in the surface, the racquets, the strings, the balls used, combinations of all these have made points longer, rallies longer and harder on the body due to the continued shift to hardcourt. This is something that has suited the players and at times, they have demanded this process continue - witness the change to Paris a couple of years ago which they admitted was pretty much done because Federer and Nadal did not like the surface.

If they want to reduce wear and tear then they need to be looking to develop more aggressive play styles but they also need to be pushing for at least SOME of the tour to be about faster playing conditions - quick surfaces, lighter balls, whatever - that encourage and reward faster play. It can be done. Paris last year is an example where the surface was unusually quick and led to some very entertaining tennis.

The ranking structure needs to change. Best of 18 as it currently is, with the conditions on the top players, means they are pretty much mandated to play 4 slams, 8 masters, 4 500 and 2 250 events, or risk being disadvantaged compared to their rivals. This is now too rigid. It's also worth keeping in mind that all these tournaments want guaranteed big names - as big as they can get. To be a top player is to be under pressure to deliver for the tour at all levels, not just the slams, but the 250s as well. In some cases they need to learn to say no better but it would be easier if they did something about appearance fees and adjusted the requirement to play 18 tournaments.

The complaints about Davis Cup scheduling have been nothing new but the current schedule is entirely of the players own making - they pushed for these week-after-slam dates in the first place and people like Federer and Nadal were at the forefront of that so Nadal's complaints last week come off more than a little stupid.

They should be doing more anyway to promote more than the top 4 - sometimes you'd be forgiven for thinking that the rest of the tour is irrelevant, they need to share the wealth and the recognition lower down the social scale.
Yes good points. You get the impression some players would breathe a sigh of relief if the Davis Cup disappeared altogether.

Clearly we need fewer hard-court events & in particular, fewer slow hard-court events. That means more tournaments on grass, clay, & fast indoor surfaces, preferably carpet. If players don't like it - develop some fucking technique, arseholes, & learn to hit winners & volleys. You're meant to be a fucking tennis player not a steeplechase runner you twat.

But surface changes aside, my main and most radical suggestion is this:

Simplify the calendar, not by scrapping tournaments, but by getting rid of all mandatory tournaments except the slams, the Davis Cup, & the WTF (for those who qualify).


Count the best 14 tournaments (1 of them Davis Cup for players selected) in a player's 52-week ranking. It's entirely up to the player if he wants to play any or all of the so-called "Masters" tournaments, up to the player if he wants to play the clay season (apart from R.G.) or indoor season (apart from WTF if he qualifies). Top players could play fewer tournaments, lower-ranked players could still play as many as they liked. Yes, the best players might come together less often, but it would be more special when they did. Davis Cup would be properly protected. Low-ranking tournaments with some other raison d'etre wouldn't even miss out on the top players. Instead of an arbitrary, top-down season structure forcing players' hands, players would be able to show which tournaments they actually valued, & the season could be periodically adjusted accordingly.
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Last edited by Sophocles : 09-20-2011 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:52 AM   #894
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

Some of these same bitches whining about the schedule are absolute fucking whores for whatever money they can get their hands on, so excuse me and excuses others if I and we have little sympathy for their plight.
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Old 09-20-2011, 10:55 AM   #895
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

the way I see it, shit is too complicated there is only one way to bypass that - make fewer obligatory MS. say 5.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:02 AM   #896
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

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I dont understand a shit about rafa's bitching ...
Davydenko played 30+ tournaments for 4-5 years and is still playing nearly every week and he doesn't bitch at all...
He also tanks half his matches....
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:07 AM   #897
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Yes good points. You get the impression some players would breathe a sigh of relief if the Davis Cup disappeared altogether.

Clearly we need fewer hard-court events & in particular, fewer slow hard-court events. That means more tournaments on grass, clay, & fast indoor surfaces, preferably carpet. If players don't like it - develop some fucking technique, arseholes, & learn to hit winners & volleys. You're meant to be a fucking tennis player not a steeplechase runner you twat.
You need technique to be a steeplechaser, as for the schedule they bitched about this for 30 years but a whole lot of nothing will come out of it.

Naturally there needs to be less hardcourt events, but the powers to be don't have the best interests of the sport at heart. I mean look at how the ATP are structured says enough.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:33 AM   #898
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

if the top players were genuine about a meeting of any sort it should be in support of players ranked 100 to 400... the work to success ratio vs other pro games is the biggest farce in world sport as it stands today...

this schedule argument has got so f**king stupid that it's nearly on the edge of being valid again...
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:43 AM   #899
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
Yes good points. You get the impression some players would breathe a sigh of relief if the Davis Cup disappeared altogether.

Clearly we need fewer hard-court events & in particular, fewer slow hard-court events. That means more tournaments on grass, clay, & fast indoor surfaces, preferably carpet. If players don't like it - develop some fucking technique, arseholes, & learn to hit winners & volleys. You're meant to be a fucking tennis player not a steeplechase runner you twat.

But surface changes aside, my main and most radical suggestion is this:

Simplify the calendar, not by scrapping tournaments, but by getting rid of all mandatory tournaments except the slams, the Davis Cup, & the WTF (for those who qualify).


Count the best 14 tournaments (1 of them Davis Cup for players selected) in a player's 52-week ranking. It's entirely up to the player if he wants to play any or all of the so-called "Masters" tournaments, up to the player if he wants to play the clay season (apart from R.G.) or indoor season (apart from WTF if he qualifies). Top players could play fewer tournaments, lower-ranked players could still play as many as they liked. Yes, the best players might come together less often, but it would be more special when they did. Davis Cup would be properly protected. Low-ranking tournaments with some other raison d'etre wouldn't even miss out on the top players. Instead of an arbitrary, top-down season structure forcing players' hands, players would be able to show which tournaments they actually valued, & the season could be periodically adjusted accordingly.
I can't see the tour going for anything where the top players face off against each other less than they do now. How do you market and sell a product if you can't guarantee there will be events where all the best will be together. There are issues with the schedule for sure but I don't think the number of events the top players play is a problem. Top players have the opportunity to take breaks after AO and especially after Wimbledon and the US Open. After Wimbledon the top players can basically take a month off, after the US Open/DC they get 3 weeks off until Shanghai. Seems to me the only way to get a longer off season for top players would be to move WTF up to after the US Open (maybe after Shanghai) and end the season there for the top 8.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:51 AM   #900
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

Love the desperados who think slow courts have nothing to do with the burnout.
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