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View Poll Results: Which of these compulsory 1000 level events would you drop

05.03.2012 - Hard - BNP Paribas Open, Indian Wells, USA 10 7.09%
23.03.2011 - Hard - Sony Ericsson Open, Miami, USA 16 11.35%
01.05.2011 - Clay - Mutua Madrid Open, Madrid, Spain 14 9.93%
08.05.2011 - Clay - Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome, Italy 10 7.09%
08.08.2011 - Hard - Rogers Cup, Montreal, Canada 6 4.26%
14.08.2011 - Hard - Western & Southern Open, Cincinnati, USA 20 14.18%
09.10.2011 - Hard - Shanghai Rolex Masters, Shanghai, China 48 34.04%
07.11.2011 - Hard - BNP Paribas Masters - Paris, France 17 12.06%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-13-2005, 06:54 PM   #76
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
Don't come with Davis Cup now. If there was regular indoor grass or indoor clay events on Tour I wouldn't have put it that way, but they don't exist and Davis Cup is not relevant for our matter here.
That was only as used as a reference, when we know exactly what the surface was, and it's the same for the events that were listed previously.

Quote:
When putting the "Indoor" category I was referring to the ordinary ATP Tour events, especially those we were discussing about, ISG.
You consider indoors to specifc, but the actual surface of indoors doesn't exist. Therefore if there were carpet or events on wood, then they'd be refered to as that.

The indoor/outdoor clay example, one was played outdoors and one played indoors, that is the difference and not the actual playing surface. If indoors is a specific surface, then please explain how that is? A hardcourt, grass, carpet and clay are seperate surfaces with or without a roof.
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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
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Old 07-13-2005, 06:59 PM   #77
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

No indoor is not a surface, but it's a specific part of the season that I used in my example, not only this, also in previous ones. It's not that hard to understand.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:06 PM   #78
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
No indoor is not a surface, but it's a specific part of the season that I used in my example, not only this, also in previous ones. It's not that hard to understand.
Playing at altitude is very specific as well, but I don't say Massu won the high altitude champs in Kitz.

Considering the court surface is important and that is exactly how I decided on how it comes to 5 and we have established that indoors as a surface doesn't exist. The surface is how it's decided more than whether it's indoors or outdoors. It does not change the fact that those 5 events are played on a hardcourt. A hardcourt is a hardcourt indoors or outdoors, so how is that incorrect?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:06 PM   #79
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Less hardcourt, more carpet.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:22 PM   #80
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Seeing that GeorgeHitler tought less as a hour ago that there is only two Gold Series tournaments on clay with Kitzbuhel and Stuttgart Neely should take it for success that he knows now it is a four.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:25 PM   #81
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Hi, I'm Philippe,

I don't specifically have a problem with the number of clay court tournaments but I think the scheduling of clay court tournaments is appalling.

There should not be what is effectively a five-week (from start to finish) clay court season after Wimbledon (four if you don't include this current week where there are no tournaments).

Think about it...if somebody such as Gaudio or Puerta had no clay court tournaments to enter between the French Open and Bucharest (which starts the week after the US Open), then they would have 14 weeks to fully concentrate on grass court and hard court tournaments.

Think about conventional hardcourt players - this is what they have to endure for 15 consecutive weeks during the clay court and grass court seasons: they have to go through a 9 week claycourt season (when there are no hardcourt tournaments whatsoever) a 4-week grass court season (when there are no hardcourt tournaments whatsoever) and a further two weeks after Wimbledon in which there are also no hard court tournaments.

If Gaudio and Puerta faced this endeavour, they would be able to focus all their energies into performing well in the North American hard court season. As it stands, they might skip the grass court season, play four clay events and then play Montreal, Cincinnati, skip a week and then the US Open - and that is it.

If it was an 14-week exclusive grass and then hard court season, then they would play in more hard court events because they wouldn't have a choice - it is either that or a long rest (which would further damage their preperation for future tournaments). They would learn to value the hard court season more, have a greater quality of specifically-hardcourt preperation and this would improve their quality of play, and results, in the lead up to the US Open - which this stage of the season is all about.

As it is, clay court players are able to pick a schedule 'which suits them 100 per cent' whereas hard court players are not allowed this luxury for 15 consecutive weeks.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:31 PM   #82
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
A hardcourt is a hardcourt indoors or outdoors, so how is that incorrect?
It's not incorrect.

Well, if you don't see why I put the indoor season in a single and extra category, well then let me reword my previous statement to question the significance of this statement of yours regarding the view it is presented:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
- The majority of ISG events are on surfaces other than clay.
The majority of ISG events are on surfaces other than grass, other than carpet, too.

Considering we have 4 surfaces, and 4 out of 9 ISG events are played on clay, one surface of four in total, there is not much to complain about clay not getting enough respected.

The differentiation should not be whether slow or not, clay and non-clay as you put this numbers; at best, the events should be balanced between all four surfaces.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:34 PM   #83
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Quote:
Originally Posted by NATAS81
Less hardcourt, more carpet.
Congrats, you got it.

To be totally correct put it as the following: less hardcourt, less clay, more carpet and more grass.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:37 PM   #84
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Indeed. A steady balance of all surfaces. Otherwise, the way it is now, Croatians and Brits are at a disadvantage.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:41 PM   #85
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Quote:
Originally Posted by NATAS81
A steady balance of all surfaces.
That's what I'm talking about and that's how my utopia of the perfect ATP Tour would look like.

Not the differentiation between non-clay and clay as George put it up in post #23 when saying "other than clay", "other than clay". Considering, as he noted himself, that we have four surfaces, 3 out 9 AMS and 4 out of 9 ISG events are a pretty good ratio for clay.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:43 PM   #86
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Come to think of it, more clay, grass and hardcourt would also hurt China, Russia, etc.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:46 PM   #87
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Quote:
Originally Posted by NATAS81
Come to think of it, more clay, grass and hardcourt would also hurt China, Russia, etc.
lol, how do you mean that?
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:49 PM   #88
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

I'm not talking about indoor hardcourts and more of them on the schedule.

Russia, you have guys like Safin, Davydenko, Andreev who are used to indoor.

Russia doesn't offer a whole lot of tournaments of other surfaces, same with China, Japan.

It's like London switching over to clay, and Murray/Henman taking a liking to a different surface.

You would think Asia, as big as it is, would house more tournaments and hopefully they see it our way.
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:51 PM   #89
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Neely you must admit that you only wanting to fight for more grass and indoor tournaments
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Old 07-13-2005, 07:55 PM   #90
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Default Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jogy
Neely you must admit that you only wanting to fight for more grass and indoor tournaments
Sure, or do you have any reasons why there shouldn't be more grass events? At least in theory, even though it's in practise most likely not realisable to have a fair balance?

Oh, no wait!! I've got the answer, it's because Wimbledon and Roland Garros are so close to each other and playing more grass events way before or after Wimbledon wouldn't work because it would make Wimbledon less special. But why is the same done with with, for example, RG and the clay events spread over the whole year?
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