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View Poll Results: Which of these compulsory 1000 level events would you drop

05.03.2012 - Hard - BNP Paribas Open, Indian Wells, USA 10 7.09%
23.03.2011 - Hard - Sony Ericsson Open, Miami, USA 16 11.35%
01.05.2011 - Clay - Mutua Madrid Open, Madrid, Spain 14 9.93%
08.05.2011 - Clay - Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome, Italy 10 7.09%
08.08.2011 - Hard - Rogers Cup, Montreal, Canada 6 4.26%
14.08.2011 - Hard - Western & Southern Open, Cincinnati, USA 20 14.18%
09.10.2011 - Hard - Shanghai Rolex Masters, Shanghai, China 48 34.04%
07.11.2011 - Hard - BNP Paribas Masters - Paris, France 17 12.06%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-19-2011, 07:24 PM   #856
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post

Rafa, Novak, Andy, it's YOUR fault for the defensive physical brand of tennis you have opted to deploy, and the ATP for slowing the courts down to suit YOUR games, that you're fucking knackered at the end of every ****ing year.

Don't forget Federer, he's at least partly responsible, too.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:25 PM   #857
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Originally Posted by Pirata. View Post
But the players wanted it against the ITF's suggestion. They had a choice to have it a week later, but the players were the ones who argued for it to come after slams.
so, the suggestion would have meant for Federer:
coming from the USA, going to Australia right away or fly home for a few days and play the week after that so that he's even longer away than now. The week after the slam would be spent recuperating and preparing, the second week would be fully preparing. Making the schedule even more demanding. Perfect.

Federer has also suggested that he's exhausted and playing DC so soon after the slam is not a good idea and he was one of the players on board.

This circus between the slams and DC would happen several times a year, thereby cutting even more into their off time?

I don't know which player suggested what, by the way and how much power they really did have. From the discussions back then, I do remember that they were between a rock and hard place.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:25 PM   #858
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Default Re: Andy Murray 'serious' about tennis strike threat

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Originally Posted by Horatio Caine View Post
Exactly.

This topic has been discussed to death over the years, and I wonder if the key issue is still the Davis Cup, and how it is a struggle to accommodate it in the calendar. I'm not a fan of it being played straight after the Slam(s) either, but my understanding is that the majority of the players voted it as so. You cannot please everyone, and if it is eventually forced out it would be an enormous shame as the fans really support it. For some of the lower-ranked players, it is partly a reason why they continue to grind out on the tour.

As for the rest of the scheduling, it comes down to the usual:
- can something be done about IW and Miami occupying one month of the calendar? Even so, going deep in both events is hardly a major physical stress as there are plenty of days off between matches.
- Rome and Madrid really need to be separated by a week; the same for Canada and Cincinnati.
- there should be a week off between Paris and London - otherwise players who go deep in Paris are at a physical disadvantage. That was a ridiculous move by the ATP.

My suggestion would be to make the European indoors stint (the final four weeks of the season) entirely optional. Those that want to play out the full season can do as they wish. Those that don't (e.g. Nadal, Murray) could simply end their regular season in Shanghai. In effect, the Paris Masters becomes non-mandatory. Pioline would burst a blood vessel, but his event gets hit every year anyway.
Don't forget about the immovable slams. How do you restructure the calendar when the slams refuse or cannot move their spots? You could make a case that IW and Miami should be downsized to 1 week but I don't think those two events are the reason the players are burned out. If they are it's more likely because they're some of the slowest hard courts on tour. Speed up hard courts and maybe guys wouldn't put so much wear and tear on their bodies.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:25 PM   #859
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
Obviously MY opinion. I'm not posting on behalf of the pope.

The surface of the DC ties is not something that's decided long ahead and depends on the hosting country (within rules). We've seen ultra slow courts in DC ties, ultra fast surfaces and everything in between.
The slowing down of the courts is not that relevant to DC ties. You can't just blame everything on "slowing down of courts". It's about a crowded schedule with nothing much left to manouver for the players.

And even if every player out there is an ace monster who keeps points short, having DC so quicly after a slam would still be crazy.

.
I'm not on about DC courts, I'm on about tour events. Aside from Cincinnati there are now no hardcourt events above medium pace. This turns hardcourts into a defensive push/grind surface and given hard is far more damaging to the body than clay or grass as well as more weariness to the legs, this causes more injuries and fatigue to those types of player.

DC's been after a slam before btw, the week after Australian Open they held the first round matches a few times, and also been the weekend where Newport ends after Wimbledon.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:30 PM   #860
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
Federer has also suggested that he's exhausted and playing DC so soon after the slam is not a good idea and he was one of the players on board.

So Federer is exhausted...fine. The non-top players who usually don't reach the finals at Slams will have more than a week off before they have top play DC after the Slam so for them the scheduling would be fine. And as if Federer often bothers to play DC anway
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:35 PM   #861
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
So Federer is exhausted...fine. The non-top players who usually don't reach the finals at Slams will have more than a week off before they have top play DC after the Slam so for them the scheduling would be fine. And as if Federer often bothers to play DC anway
Top player need to play a certain amount of DC ties in order to play the Olympics, though.

Furthermore, the ITF will never accept that DC is the playground of the lower ranked players while the top players rest.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:41 PM   #862
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

Yeah, good points about the slowing of the court surfaces. The game is so physical now, and there is no question that this is adding to the stress on their bodies.

The only two major changes that need to be made to the calendar imo are to abolish back-to-back Masters events (although IW and Miami are fine in their present structure) and to do something with the European indoors at the end of the season. In 2012, the European indoors will be just 3 weeks long, and if a player is to prepare properly for Paris he should be playing a 500 event a week before - and just one week after travelling back from Asia. Totally impractical, and so Paris might as well be optional. A load of dirtballers would probably avoid it as well, allowing some of them a longer off-season to rest their aching joints. The lower-ranked players (some of whom particularly enjoy indoor events - e.g. Muller, Karlovic) would then have a greater chance of making some of the cuts, would earn considerably more money for the week(s), and the crowds would still be treated to some good (indoor) tennis. Everyone is a winner.


The Tour shouldn't be shortened (in weeks) anymore than it has been, though. Many of the lower-ranked players enter 28+ events per year and need the opportunity to appear in main tour events in order to survive financially.

If Djokovic, Murray, Nadal etc want to walk away each year with $6m+ each year in prize money, they should take the aches and pains that come with it.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:41 PM   #863
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

murray whining, what a surprise

hopefully he goes on an indefinite strike, and tennis is saved.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:44 PM   #864
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Don't forget Federer, he's at least partly responsible, too.
what evidence do you have that Fed has pushed for slower courts? All because of what the top players allegedly requested for Paris indoors a few years back? It makes no sense. How would slower courts benefit Fed - especially against the other top guys?
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:48 PM   #865
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

For me, there are too many hardcourt events, whatever the pace, and not enough events on natural surfaces, esp. grass.

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what evidence do you have that Fed has pushed for slower courts?
What evidence do any of you offer about what which players pushed for exactly and what not?
It's just a speculation at the moment.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:52 PM   #866
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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For me, there are too many hardcourt events, whatever the pace, and not enough events on grass.
Fixed.

We hardly need more clay events. Here we are three months after the end of the French Open and we have another 250 clay event.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:56 PM   #867
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Originally Posted by nobama View Post
what evidence do you have that Fed has pushed for slower courts? All because of what the top players allegedly requested for Paris indoors a few years back? It makes no sense. How would slower courts benefit Fed - especially against the other top guys?

Doesn't mattter if it makes sense or if it benefits Fed or not..Paris Bery is evidence enough for me.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:57 PM   #868
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Originally Posted by Horatio Caine View Post
Yeah, good points about the slowing of the court surfaces. The game is so physical now, and there is no question that this is adding to the stress on their bodies.

The only two major changes that need to be made to the calendar imo are to abolish back-to-back Masters events (although IW and Miami are fine in their present structure) and to do something with the European indoors at the end of the season. In 2012, the European indoors will be just 3 weeks long, and if a player is to prepare properly for Paris he should be playing a 500 event a week before - and just one week after travelling back from Asia. Totally impractical, and so Paris might as well be optional. A load of dirtballers would probably avoid it as well, allowing some of them a longer off-season to rest their aching joints. The lower-ranked players (some of whom particularly enjoy indoor events - e.g. Muller, Karlovic) would then have a greater chance of making some of the cuts, would earn considerably more money for the week(s), and the crowds would still be treated to some good (indoor) tennis. Everyone is a winner.


The Tour shouldn't be shortened (in weeks) anymore than it has been, though. Many of the lower-ranked players enter 28+ events per year and need the opportunity to appear in main tour events in order to survive financially.

If Djokovic, Murray, Nadal etc want to walk away each year with $6m+ each year in prize money, they should take the aches and pains that come with it.
In golf on the PGA Tour they have something called the Fed Ex Cup. Starting at the end of August until the End of September they have tournaments which are part of the Fed Ex Cup playoffs. The tour championship (which is the equivalent of the WTF) is played the 2nd to last week in September. After that the top players are basically done for the year; however, there are 4 additional events billed as the "fall series" which I believe anyone can play in. Perhaps tennis should do something similar - move the WTF up in the calendar but keep some other events on the schedule for lower ranked players, players coming off injury or players who prefer to play vs. train or take time off.
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Old 09-19-2011, 07:59 PM   #869
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

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Originally Posted by Pirata. View Post
We hardly need more clay events. Here we are three months after the end of the French Open and we have another 250 clay event.
I love clay court tennis. (surprise, surprise)

But, I'm talking about the more important clay court events leading up to Roland Garros. They are crammed into a very short space of time. If you compare that with how the hardcourt events are spread over the year, it's ludicrous.
Esp. if you look at IW/Miami over 4 weeks + Toronto or Montréal/Cinci over 4 weeks and compare that with the Masters events leading up to RG.
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Old 09-19-2011, 08:00 PM   #870
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount, scheduling issues

It's good Andy is speaking, up, especially about the changes coming soon. You always hear about changes but its like 2-3 years from now it will happen. Get him Novak, and Rafa on the same page it will happen. The ATP will have no choice.

There needs to be more time during the clay season and a grass master series would be fine. They have to cut down on the hardcourt events, its too hard on the body.
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