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View Poll Results: Which of these compulsory 1000 level events would you drop

05.03.2012 - Hard - BNP Paribas Open, Indian Wells, USA 10 7.09%
23.03.2011 - Hard - Sony Ericsson Open, Miami, USA 16 11.35%
01.05.2011 - Clay - Mutua Madrid Open, Madrid, Spain 14 9.93%
08.05.2011 - Clay - Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome, Italy 10 7.09%
08.08.2011 - Hard - Rogers Cup, Montreal, Canada 6 4.26%
14.08.2011 - Hard - Western & Southern Open, Cincinnati, USA 20 14.18%
09.10.2011 - Hard - Shanghai Rolex Masters, Shanghai, China 48 34.04%
07.11.2011 - Hard - BNP Paribas Masters - Paris, France 17 12.06%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-11-2006, 04:55 PM   #256
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by deb.
And, NicoFan, he's honest enough to speak his mind and say what he's thinking. No one said his schedule is perfect. Perhaps there's no gun to his head, but perhaps some of you are also underestimating the pressure put on top players to support the small tourneys in their home countries. Think of what it means to a new tourney like Vegas that's trying to establish a ticket-purchasing base to have Andy play. I'd rather he didn't play Vegas, but it's undeniable that the tourney's future and success will be determined in part by whether he plays, and I'm quite sure he has been informed of this and is reminded of it all the time

For example, Fed played Gstaad right after Wimbledon a few times. Finally he told them he just couldn't play anymore, but do you think he was playing b/c he was dying to play on clay right after wimby? I doubt it. Finally he said no. Maybe Andy's not as good at saying no. Maybe he'll realize that it wasn't smart scheduling and pull out like he did last summer with LA. But considering none of us have played an 11-month season, I think he's in better position than any of us to discuss its ramifications.

So can these players say no to their small home tourneys? Technically, sure. But it's not that easy. Also, i think one of Andy's biggest complaints is the lack of one big chunk of off-season. His playing a lot through the year doesn't really hold much relevance there, considering the AO is in January and TMC is in November/DC final in early December.
Roddick's case is different because he's from the U.S, and how many ATP tournaments we have in the U.S. throughout the year? Many. So yeah, he has to learn how to say no to some home tournaments, I mean, he did it to Delray Beach, so he should do it to a few others, too. I don't see any problem in him doing it - like I posted in the other thread, the only problem IMO is when the player trades the local tournament for a tournament abroad, like Coria and Nalbandian did it last year because they were offered more money in Marseille, and their case being worse because Argentina holds only one tournament a year.

Of course the U.S. TD's will do everything they can to assure Roddick's presence at their tournaments, so it depends only on Roddick's decision to refuse the offfers. If he has the guts to go out and criticize the ATP calendar, then he should have it to turn down a few offers, too.
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Old 01-11-2006, 05:09 PM   #257
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by deb.
And, NicoFan, he's honest enough to speak his mind and say what he's thinking. No one said his schedule is perfect. Perhaps there's no gun to his head, but perhaps some of you are also underestimating the pressure put on top players to support the small tourneys in their home countries. Think of what it means to a new tourney like Vegas that's trying to establish a ticket-purchasing base to have Andy play. I'd rather he didn't play Vegas, but it's undeniable that the tourney's future and success will be determined in part by whether he plays, and I'm quite sure he has been informed of this and is reminded of it all the time

For example, Fed played Gstaad right after Wimbledon a few times. Finally he told them he just couldn't play anymore, but do you think he was playing b/c he was dying to play on clay right after wimby? I doubt it. Finally he said no. Maybe Andy's not as good at saying no. Maybe he'll realize that it wasn't smart scheduling and pull out like he did last summer with LA. But considering none of us have played an 11-month season, I think he's in better position than any of us to discuss its ramifications.

So can these players say no to their small home tourneys? Technically, sure. But it's not that easy. Also, i think one of Andy's biggest complaints is the lack of one big chunk of off-season. His playing a lot through the year doesn't really hold much relevance there, considering the AO is in January and TMC is in November/DC final in early December.
In Roddick's case, the pressure is added by the fact there are a number of smaller tournaments in the US and (other than Agassi) he is the only true marquee American player.
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Old 01-11-2006, 05:12 PM   #258
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston's Human
In Roddick's case, the pressure is added by the fact there are a number of smaller tournaments in the US and (other than Agassi) he is the only true marquee American player.
be more selfish.. and say no...
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Old 01-11-2006, 05:21 PM   #259
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by deb.
And, NicoFan, he's honest enough to speak his mind and say what he's thinking. No one said his schedule is perfect. Perhaps there's no gun to his head, but perhaps some of you are also underestimating the pressure put on top players to support the small tourneys in their home countries. Think of what it means to a new tourney like Vegas that's trying to establish a ticket-purchasing base to have Andy play. I'd rather he didn't play Vegas, but it's undeniable that the tourney's future and success will be determined in part by whether he plays, and I'm quite sure he has been informed of this and is reminded of it all the time

For example, Fed played Gstaad right after Wimbledon a few times. Finally he told them he just couldn't play anymore, but do you think he was playing b/c he was dying to play on clay right after wimby? I doubt it. Finally he said no. Maybe Andy's not as good at saying no. Maybe he'll realize that it wasn't smart scheduling and pull out like he did last summer with LA. But considering none of us have played an 11-month season, I think he's in better position than any of us to discuss its ramifications.

So can these players say no to their small home tourneys? Technically, sure. But it's not that easy. Also, i think one of Andy's biggest complaints is the lack of one big chunk of off-season. His playing a lot through the year doesn't really hold much relevance there, considering the AO is in January and TMC is in November/DC final in early December.
I agree. I don't think people realize the pressure in the US for Andy to play.

He does have to learn how to say 'no' but I think it says more for his character of being a good person who wants to promote the game that he says 'yes' all the time. (Which is why I refuse to criticize him when he loses - he has too much pressure on him - I feel so sorry for him).

And the person that mentioned Roger - Roger was criticized for missing many tournaments last year.

So these guys are damned if they do, damned if they don't. They can't win with the fans.
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Old 01-11-2006, 05:24 PM   #260
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzieh
be more selfish.. and say no...
He should say no more often, but that goes against the grain of his background. Andy may live in Texas and have been raised in Florida, but in many ways he has that genial upper-Midwest politeness which makes it hard to be selfish.
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Old 01-11-2006, 05:26 PM   #261
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

He will be fine and can do what he wants. No big deal either way. He has done just fine for the last few years.
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Old 01-11-2006, 05:29 PM   #262
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by athie
Not this old chestnut again - many of these injured players do have a choice not to play.
That's true. And how many of them make it deep into every tournament? Over the last three years or so Roger and Andy have played 70+ matches in a year and neither one of them have had serious injuries. Ok, Roger injured his ankle this year, but that was really bad luck, not that he played too much. And Andy's back appears to be fine, so we can probably assume that wasn't a serious injury. I still think players need to do a better job of scheduling and take time off to recharge. Do you need a union for that?
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Old 01-11-2006, 05:44 PM   #263
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

A union really only makes sense if there is an owner or an association of owners. The ATP originally WAS the players and nothing else. The players still have a voice in that organization. So, I don't know who the union would negotiate with exactly. Maybe it's more like an actors union or a writers union. But I don't really see that working in tennis. It would be very difficult.

Andy clearly wants a longer off season. He talks about it all the time. But, he can have a longer off season anytime he wants to take more time off. I think he wants the off season with no reprecussions in terms of his ranking though.

If there were 3 months with absolutely no tennis anywhere, we would see some pretty bad tennis when the season started back up. You can't relax without match play for 3 months and then play well again. Most of the players would probably play some sort of exhibition circuit if there were 3 months off.
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Old 01-11-2006, 05:47 PM   #264
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Also, I don't get why people keep saying it is an 11 month season. For the vast majority of the players it is 10 months. The Masters is in early to mid november.
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Old 01-11-2006, 05:53 PM   #265
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Maybe part of the answer is restrictions in racquet technology. I know there are restrictions on golf club makers (not sure about balls though). And even some former players have said there need to be more changes because it's so easy for the pros because they can hit a drive over 400 yards. But maybe there needs to be some changes in tennis to shorten points and have less bashing from the baseline. The game is obviously more physical than it's ever been and in turn is causing more wear and tear on players bodies. And surely racquet technology has played a part in that.
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Old 01-11-2006, 06:00 PM   #266
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

This is a link to the current ATP structure in which the Board of Directors is split between the Player Council reps and the Tournament Council reps.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/aboutatp...n/orgchart.asp

If you remember a few years ago, Waye Ferreria tried to get a players' union separate from the ATP off the ground, but, mostly due to the prolonged illness of the main person he was working with, it never materialized.

One major problem for the players is that they tend to be outgunned by the experience, money, and energy of the tournament directors. The TDs are older, experienced in running for-profit businesses, and don't have to spend hours and hours of each day in physical training. It's not an equal fight, especially when a majority of the players are pretty apathetic about things, as long as they can make a decent to exceptional living for the few years they're on the tour.
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Old 01-11-2006, 06:52 PM   #267
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by athie
Not this old chestnut again - many of these injured players do have a choice not to play.
I buy that argument for many of them...but this situation is different.

As I have said time and time again...the calendar isn't all that bad. Maybe have 6 solid weeks off as an improvement.

Agassi got injured off a tennis court...
Safin got injured without playing all that much really...
Nadal...he played in too many events earlier in the year when he didn't have to.
Volandri (this week) - plays nearly every week.

Name me some others...
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Old 01-11-2006, 07:58 PM   #268
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

I agree. Players need to organise their own schedules better. Just because there are tournaments every week doesn't mean they need to play every week.

But I do think there are a few too many hard court events. There need to me more grass court tournaments.
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Old 01-11-2006, 08:04 PM   #269
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavaria100
That´s true.

Honestly, I can´t take Andy serious anymore. He always says, that the season is too long and the off-season is too short, but then he commits for nearly every tournament that is held in the United States. Just take a look at his schedule for 2006:

Dec. 31 – Jan. 5: Training in Hawaii
Jan. 11: Kooyong in Melbourne, Australia
Jan. 16: Australian Open (1st Grand Slam of 2006)
Feb. 6: Davis Cup
Feb. 13: San Jose, CA: SAP Open
Feb. 20: Memphis: Regions Morgan Keegan Championships
Feb. 27: Las Vegas: The Tennis Channel Open
March 6: Indian Wells: Pacific Life Open
March 20: Miami: Nasdaq 100 Open
April 3: Davis Cup

I think we can also add Houston, because he always plays there (even if he´s totally tired). I can´t picture the tournament directors holding a gun at his head and threatening him to squeeze the trigger if he doesn´t commit to play in their tournaments. It´s up to him where and when he plays and he shouldn´t be surprised if he´s burned out after the French Open.
I think he'll probably end up withdrawing from Las Vegas, unless he does badly at the other tournaments. Last year, he had to withdraw in the semi-final of Memphis.
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Old 01-11-2006, 08:12 PM   #270
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Default Re: Player union call as injuries mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by deb.
And, NicoFan, he's honest enough to speak his mind and say what he's thinking. No one said his schedule is perfect. Perhaps there's no gun to his head, but perhaps some of you are also underestimating the pressure put on top players to support the small tourneys in their home countries. Think of what it means to a new tourney like Vegas that's trying to establish a ticket-purchasing base to have Andy play. I'd rather he didn't play Vegas, but it's undeniable that the tourney's future and success will be determined in part by whether he plays, and I'm quite sure he has been informed of this and is reminded of it all the time

For example, Fed played Gstaad right after Wimbledon a few times. Finally he told them he just couldn't play anymore, but do you think he was playing b/c he was dying to play on clay right after wimby? I doubt it. Finally he said no. Maybe Andy's not as good at saying no. Maybe he'll realize that it wasn't smart scheduling and pull out like he did last summer with LA. But considering none of us have played an 11-month season, I think he's in better position than any of us to discuss its ramifications.

So can these players say no to their small home tourneys? Technically, sure. But it's not that easy. Also, i think one of Andy's biggest complaints is the lack of one big chunk of off-season. His playing a lot through the year doesn't really hold much relevance there, considering the AO is in January and TMC is in November/DC final in early December.
Roger had a contract with Gstaad and when that ended so did Roger playing there. More players should do what Roger did and take breaks they need them. You only have to play 18 events a year. That is not too much, they just want that extra appearance fee money. We also must remember that some have game styles that will cause them injuries more than others and that some delay taking proper medical action to their injuries.
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