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View Poll Results: Which of these compulsory 1000 level events would you drop

05.03.2012 - Hard - BNP Paribas Open, Indian Wells, USA 10 7.09%
23.03.2011 - Hard - Sony Ericsson Open, Miami, USA 16 11.35%
01.05.2011 - Clay - Mutua Madrid Open, Madrid, Spain 14 9.93%
08.05.2011 - Clay - Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome, Italy 10 7.09%
08.08.2011 - Hard - Rogers Cup, Montreal, Canada 6 4.26%
14.08.2011 - Hard - Western & Southern Open, Cincinnati, USA 20 14.18%
09.10.2011 - Hard - Shanghai Rolex Masters, Shanghai, China 48 34.04%
07.11.2011 - Hard - BNP Paribas Masters - Paris, France 17 12.06%
Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-06-2005, 12:41 PM   #181
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by monicain
GW's calendar seems fairly good. But for carpet season week 34-37, No more Madrid and Paris. Moskva and Tokyo seem a lot better. You can even add Bangkok, which is indoor, to make it asain season.

Also, where that hardcourt event in that 3rd week could be held?

>>so there'll be:
14 weeks on hard
13 weeks on clay
5 weeks on grass
4 weeks on carpet (should be 5 if you fix the Masters Cup on it)
sounds much more equally distributed!--I like it.

Contrary to ys', about masters cup and no top asian players, I think China, or even Africa--if they can organize it, should take the Masters Cup. That would really create a neutral atmosphere for all the best top 8 competing, something we didnt see in stupid McInvale's Houston.
Actually what would happen with the indoor events is that during those short weeks, when there aren't the 2 TMS events there, it will be 3 tournaments a week held during this time.

The clay season will start in South America and go for 4 weeks with a clay TMS in the 2nd week of Buenos Aires, then move to Europe and finish with RG. Most of the time there will be 2 or sometimes 3 tournaments played in non TMS weeks.

Actually I have a thread about whether the TMS should be moved around globally, but that would make too much sense.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-06-2005, 01:18 PM   #182
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

How about a couple of green clay events dutring the clay season also?
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Old 10-06-2005, 01:21 PM   #183
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyd2005
How about a couple of green clay events dutring the clay season also?
Got enough clay events as it is.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-06-2005, 01:45 PM   #184
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Is there any difference between Green Clay & Red Clay besides the color?

Also, which surfaces does the ATP recognize as legit, & of those, which ones are not used on the tour?
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Old 10-06-2005, 06:05 PM   #185
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dux
Is there any difference between Green Clay & Red Clay besides the color?

Also, which surfaces does the ATP recognize as legit, & of those, which ones are not used on the tour?
Yes there is a substantial difference, as green clay (har-tru) has the consistency of GRAVEL (like playing on crushed brick actually), whilst red clay has a finer, dustier consistency.
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Old 10-06-2005, 09:25 PM   #186
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
Only the top players can afford large breaks in schedule, not everyone can play a Hewitt like schedule, can't think that is a possibility for all the players, when not all circumstances are the same. Hence the vast majority of players have to play more tournaments than they would like for either economic reasons or keeping the ranking points up, so they can participate in the bigger events and do the best of themselves.

Shorter off season, not enough time to recover from niggles for the whole year, then after than they have to work during the off season on the other things like base fitness, endurance, speedwork, this takes time to get the benefits from this, if done correctly.

It's not a negative way to look at it all, it makes sense, if the tournaments are there, then people will play them, some need the cash and others need the points and also they have to make the cutoff for the AO without qualifying. You only think about the top players, the fact is that the majority of players aren't financially that well off, so many have to play more to pay expenses, some love the competition, but there are other practical reasons.
Well, I wouldn't be against a break from Challengers during the months of November and December. But I don't think it's a reason to stop International Series tournaments being scheduled from January to October. If it's mainly the lower ranked players who are suffering then fine - stop the Challengers for this period.

Everybody in the top 200 is quite well off. If you include both prize money and sponsorship, they earn 6 figures a year (US Dollars).
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Old 10-07-2005, 05:37 AM   #187
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik
Well, I wouldn't be against a break from Challengers during the months of November and December. But I don't think it's a reason to stop International Series tournaments being scheduled from January to October. If it's mainly the lower ranked players who are suffering then fine - stop the Challengers for this period.

Everybody in the top 200 is quite well off. If you include both prize money and sponsorship, they earn 6 figures a year (US Dollars).
The revised calendar that GWH proposed seemed to have said the season would start in Feb to November, which would mean some events have to be cut as there are too many as it as the moment.

It seems you are only looking at this from a narrow perspective, and the challengers not all of the players in the top 200 are well off. If a player is in the top 50, then they get directly into all events and then they are looked after financially. This is not the case for all of these players, the flights have to be paid for, the coaches need to be paid as well, some of these players can't afford to take them on the road.

Machines, can break down and so can players. It seems you are of the quantative school of thought on this issue.
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Old 10-07-2005, 05:41 AM   #188
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by michelleg
Yes there is a substantial difference, as green clay (har-tru) has the consistency of GRAVEL (like playing on crushed brick actually), whilst red clay has a finer, dustier consistency.
Red clay uses brickdust in its production, whereas the green clay doesn't and having not had the pleasure of playing on green clay, it seems to play faster than the red stuff. If Connors could win on green clay, but he never won a title on the red clay, there maybe something in this thought.
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:40 PM   #189
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Bertrand
The revised calendar that GWH proposed seemed to have said the season would start in Feb to November, which would mean some events have to be cut as there are too many as it as the moment.

It seems you are only looking at this from a narrow perspective, and the challengers not all of the players in the top 200 are well off. If a player is in the top 50, then they get directly into all events and then they are looked after financially. This is not the case for all of these players, the flights have to be paid for, the coaches need to be paid as well, some of these players can't afford to take them on the road.

Machines, can break down and so can players. It seems you are of the quantative school of thought on this issue.
"some events have to be cut as there are too many as it as the moment"
I disagree. I think the ATP has done very well to get a good number of tournaments per year. When I proposed a new calendar, I didn't want to change the season's length because, as far as IS tournies are concerned, it is perfect right now. Challengers are a seperate issue.

"It seems you are only looking at this from a narrow perspective, and the challengers not all of the players in the top 200 are well off"
Did you read my original post? In the year-end prize money standings, top 200 earn $50 000 a year. With sponsorship, most of them make $100 000+ per year. These aren't poor people.

"the flights have to be paid for, the coaches need to be paid as well, some of these players can't afford to take them on the road"
Players in the top 200 can afford flights for themselves. Forget coaches, if they can't afford them they shouldn't be hired.

Anyway, this is off topic because the original discussion was regarding the main ATP tour calendar. I'm not concerned with the Challenger circuit.
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Old 10-08-2005, 10:00 AM   #190
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik
"some events have to be cut as there are too many as it as the moment"
I disagree. I think the ATP has done very well to get a good number of tournaments per year. When I proposed a new calendar, I didn't want to change the season's length because, as far as IS tournies are concerned, it is perfect right now. Challengers are a seperate issue.
Considering there is a crossover of players ranked from 50-100 from challenger level into the main ATP events, then that is something that needs to be looked at, if there is to be any changes made to the calendar.

Quote:
Did you read my original post? In the year-end prize money standings, top 200 earn $50 000 a year. With sponsorship, most of them make $100 000+ per year. These aren't poor people.
Not every player in the top 200 has a clothing sponsorship, deals or has a supportive federation. Then again it's misleading there are many former top players languishing down in the rankings, who already have everything looked after, not everyone in this group, is that well off, an example of a narrow perspective. So only rich kids should have coaches then?

Quote:
Anyway, this is off topic because the original discussion was regarding the main ATP tour calendar. I'm not concerned with the Challenger circuit.
Still the season is too long as it is, quantity over quality. Have you comprehended why some people think the season is too long?
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-08-2005, 03:43 PM   #191
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
Not every player in the top 200 has a clothing sponsorship, deals or has a supportive federation. Then again it's misleading there are many former top players languishing down in the rankings, who already have everything looked after, not everyone in this group, is that well off, an example of a narrow perspective. So only rich kids should have coaches then?
If you can afford a coach then fine. If you can't, then that's too bad. But don't start complaining that these people can't afford to have coaches travelling with them everywhere. Next they'll be complaining that they can't afford to have a fitness trainer, a racket stringer and an army of friends and family to travel with them. Not everybody is entitled to a coach, you know. Maybe they could follow Roger's example of having a part-time coach to give them help when needed but to travel with them all the time? It is a luxury not a necessity.

Quote:
Still the season is too long as it is, quantity over quality. Have you comprehended why some people think the season is too long?
I've listened to their reasoning, I've listened to your reasoning and I disagree.

We have 4 grand slams which produce the highest quality tennis because all the top players turn up and all of them give 100%. We also have 9 AMS events which usually also provide great viewing almost as good as the slams. Then we have all the IS tournaments which are all extremely important. For the fans, they don't need to be tennis of the highest quality (although it's nice when it is) they just need to show a good standard of pro tennis. Not every country can have a major tournament so we need as many of these as possible to cover every part of the world. For the players, they need a chance to play competitive tennis to be ready for the majors. If you prefer to only watch quality then watch the slams. Nobody is forced to watch all the small tournaments.

Players have to accept the consequences of working too hard during November and December. At the end of the day, it is the players who make their own decisions. The ATP can't control every player who chooses to enter every tournament and spend their entire winter holiday playing tennis and doing fitness regimes. If the players injure themselves by making these decisions, it is the players' fault not the ATP's.
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Old 10-08-2005, 04:12 PM   #192
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik
If you can afford a coach then fine. If you can't, then that's too bad. But don't start complaining that these people can't afford to have coaches travelling with them everywhere. Next they'll be complaining that they can't afford to have a fitness trainer, a racket stringer and an army of friends and family to travel with them. Not everybody is entitled to a coach, you know. Maybe they could follow Roger's example of having a part-time coach to give them help when needed but to travel with them all the time? It is a luxury not a necessity.
I said coach only and only a coach, so where is the whole next stuff coming into it, when it hasn't been mentioned at all. Yes, Federer travelled the whole time without a coach since he was a pro, did you start watching tennis yesterday? He can do it now, but it wasn't something he did before.

Quote:
We have 4 grand slams which produce the highest quality tennis because all the top players turn up and all of them give 100%. We also have 9 AMS events which usually also provide great viewing almost as good as the slams. Then we have all the IS tournaments which are all extremely important. For the fans, they don't need to be tennis of the highest quality (although it's nice when it is) they just need to show a good standard of pro tennis. Not every country can have a major tournament so we need as many of these as possible to cover every part of the world. For the players, they need a chance to play competitive tennis to be ready for the majors. If you prefer to only watch quality then watch the slams. Nobody is forced to watch all the small tournaments.
Considering every single continent would get represented under the proposal that I have suggested. Yes, that means South Africa/Asia would get a hardcourt tournament as a lead into the AO, this means that South America is the lead in with a TMS there and beginning the clay season and move onto Europe. After the grass the choice would be North America/Asia for hardcourt and then finish with the indoors.

Never seen the effects of over saturation of a product, it's not a good thing and it happens in sports and football is a clear example, sure there is plenty of it, but doesn't mean overall it has got better.

Quote:
Players have to accept the consequences of working too hard during November and December. At the end of the day, it is the players who make their own decisions. The ATP can't control every player who chooses to enter every tournament and spend their entire winter holiday playing tennis and doing fitness regimes. If the players injure themselves by making these decisions, it is the players' fault not the ATP's.
Considering the off season isn't long enough to recover from the wear and tears and be able to have a solid training base which is needed to last the upcoming season, why are there more soft tissue injuries these days? Not enough time to recover, and no the tour isn't about the top 10, considering the ATP is about all the players.

The AO should feel like a Slam, but in some ways it isn't, too close to end of the previous season and if it was moved back and had a proper lead in to the event, then that negative aspect wil be minimised.

There are more events than ever, and these players aren't machines and what you don't think the stuff that comes with the job of tennis doesn't have an effect either. Hewitt, Ferrero, not enough time to recover from tough seasons at the top, immune system is down and then got chickenpox.

Injuries and illness can happen at any time, but the fact that they were run down and not enough time in the off-season to recharge their bodies, made them more likely to get the illnesses that they did.

Do you still want to go on with this or what? The players are the most important product in tennis, it's that simple, it's not us on here who go out and do their job.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-08-2005, 04:54 PM   #193
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Ok, yep why don't the players just play 52 weeks a year!!

Oh, no coaches necessary... or fitness trainers - train yourselves!

I mean they probably wouldn't be able to play at all the next year though, they'd all be injured... so what would everyone watch then??

The players aren't little puppets where you can just pick up the strings and expect them to perform a show. They need rest just as anyone else does and if they start the season off with niggling injuries they will be troubled for much more time than they would if they had a little more recovery time!!!!!
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Old 10-08-2005, 07:03 PM   #194
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
I said coach only and only a coach, so where is the whole next stuff coming into it, when it hasn't been mentioned at all. Yes, Federer travelled the whole time without a coach since he was a pro, did you start watching tennis yesterday? He can do it now, but it wasn't something he did before.
I know you did. My point was where do you draw the line?
If you think players are all entitled to have their own coaches travelling with them then why shouldn't they be entitled to other things too?
Personally, I think no-body is entitled to a coach. If you can't afford one - tough.

Quote:
Considering every single continent would get represented under the proposal that I have suggested. Yes, that means South Africa/Asia would get a hardcourt tournament as a lead into the AO, this means that South America is the lead in with a TMS there and beginning the clay season and move onto Europe. After the grass the choice would be North America/Asia for hardcourt and then finish with the indoors.

Never seen the effects of over saturation of a product, it's not a good thing and it happens in sports and football is a clear example, sure there is plenty of it, but doesn't mean overall it has got better.
Ok, fair enough. That's a good schedule, if every continent is being represented. I haven't seen the details of your proposal but if you believe you can cover all those parts of the world in just a 9 month calendar then I wouldn't have a problem.

In football, none of the fans have a problem with the schedule. I reckon the players are being overworked possibly but only the very best - the ones that need to play in the international tournaments both during and after the season. But trully ALL these guys get payed millions of Euros a year so I have no sympathy. They also have the option of retiring from international football if they feel physically incapable of handling it.

Quote:
Considering the off season isn't long enough to recover from the wear and tears and be able to have a solid training base which is needed to last the upcoming season, why are there more soft tissue injuries these days? Not enough time to recover, and no the tour isn't about the top 10, considering the ATP is about all the players.

The AO should feel like a Slam, but in some ways it isn't, too close to end of the previous season and if it was moved back and had a proper lead in to the event, then that negative aspect wil be minimised.

There are more events than ever, and these players aren't machines and what you don't think the stuff that comes with the job of tennis doesn't have an effect either. Hewitt, Ferrero, not enough time to recover from tough seasons at the top, immune system is down and then got chickenpox.

Injuries and illness can happen at any time, but the fact that they were run down and not enough time in the off-season to recharge their bodies, made them more likely to get the illnesses that they did.
I never said nor implied that the ATP was all about the top players. But you seem to be talking about Ferrero and Hewitt. These guys have a choice not to enter every tournament that's coming up. If they made the right choices they wouldn't get injured in the first place.

I agree it would be nice if the AO was in February or March instead of January but it's been said many times that they have other sporting events at this time of year. They cannot let the AO clash with the Grand Prix and the ashes etc..

Quote:
Do you still want to go on with this or what? The players are the most important product in tennis, it's that simple, it's not us on here who go out and do their job.
No I don't but I feel sometimes I'm not being heard here. You don't need to tell me stuff here that I already know.
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Old 10-09-2005, 04:11 AM   #195
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Default Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik
If you think players are all entitled to have their own coaches travelling with them then why shouldn't they be entitled to other things too?
Personally, I think no-body is entitled to a coach. If you can't afford one - tough.
And so how do these players that can't afford a coach get any better? How do they become good enough to compete with these players that have all the money and can afford one?

Do you want just all the rich kids being the only ones that can afford to play the game rather than the ones with talent? It would all become a little too much like F1 with only the rich teams being competitive.

Honestly, the notion that players should not hire coaches is just ludicrous!!
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