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View Poll Results: Death penalty: Yes or No?

Yes 23 27.38%
No 54 64.29%
Don't know 7 8.33%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-25-2011, 09:53 AM   #61
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
If you are responsible for willingly taking the life of another person - then you should lose all rights to your own.

It is disgusting that people who commit murder have the opportunity to - in some cases, far too many - walk the streets again at some point down the line. While the victim will never have the chance to do the same and their family and friends are left to live with their loss forever.


There is no justice in this world.
Why do these two have to be mutually exclusive?

Like I said, sentence a murderer to life imprisonment without parole, and make him work until he pays for his expenses at least. I don't care if that's considered forced labour, I'm not asking for them to do inhuman work under inhuman conditions.
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:02 PM   #62
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
In my experience in debates on this issue, it is always those who are against the death penalty who end up being unable and/or unwilling to accept that it's reasonable to be for the death penalty. And that just becomes infuriating and is a real turn-off for debate on the subject.

I perfectly understand the case against the death penalty, of course there are flaws to it and injustices against innocent people can, have and will occur - although far less readily I would guess, than injustices against people who end up being locked up.

What I find annoyingly amusing is how some people can't justify the possibility of an innocent man or woman being sentenced to death (which won't actually come into being for years in most cases), but it's perfectly okay to be given a life sentence in prison for an innocent man or woman? As if the latter is not in some cases to be considered worse than death itself.

The death penalty is not a perfect solution and I doubt anyone has ever claimed it to be, but I fail to see how it is any worse than the world and society we currently live in.

I had this same debate at work not too long ago and it got pretty heated - and a common theme of the argument against the death penalty is that it won't deter criminals seeking to murder. And again, it's just amusing how that possibility somehow equates to meaning that being locked up for a few years is a deterrant? We know full well it isn't.

The idea of a person who has committed cold blooded murder being "rehabilitated" and later allowed to melt into society repulses me. Even though I can appreciate that there are plenty of people out there who want to bring out the good and reformed in those who have done wrong, I fail to see how justice is served in such an instance.

You take a life or lives, you spend some time in an environment where you mingle with like-minded individuals, and then you are later released having possibly seen the error of your ways.

And the victim? Oh, nevermind.

The idea of retribution is a must in sentencing, it is usually all a victim's family and friends can hold onto - to see that justice is done. We all know it won't bring the victim back, but that surely has never been the point.

You would think that it is perfectly logical to believe that if you choose to end someone's life, you lose right to your own - but then again, that's the fucked up world we live in, unfortunately.
To my way of thinking (or perhaps my particular indoctrination) punishment for any crime should provide the elements of retribution, `deterrence, and rehabilitation. The question of whether a particular person can be rehabilitated, is another matter and in the U.S. it is a factor in deciding whether the death penalty is the appropriate penalty. Obviously, some people are not candidates for rehabilitation.

Deterence is another matter. In a perfect society I suppose we would all live by the golden rule, and would not perpetrate violence against a person or property simply out of consideration for other people. But, most people I think are aware that if they do these things there are personal penalties to pay — you know, unless the “person” is a corporation.

I think we (“we” meaning "you and I”) probably also agree that not every killing merits the death penalty and also that some killings do not even merit punishment at all. So then the issue becomes what killings would merit the most extreme punishment society can impose, and can justice for the aggrieved persons and the perpetrator be achieved without the death penalty. Is locking up a person for life, sufficient? What does the death penalty achieve that life imprisonment does not? Are we acculturated to thinking the death penalty is the appropriate penalty? An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth? It’s difficult for me to judge.

I know that some societies see payment to the family of the victim for death is sufficient justice. That’s interesting to me. But, it comes back to what society itself deems justice to be. Obviously, the death penalty in theory has a great deal of support in the U.S.

Another thing that interests me about life imprisonment which is not an easy thing, is what do you do with someone who continues to kill after being sentenced to life? These people exist. The last person executed in my state, was one of those. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_Lee_Gardner

I wonder how the people of Norway will feel when this mass murderer walks free. He took so many young innocent and promising young lives. Did he calculate the penalty and decide it was worth it? If the penalty had been his own life or never ending imprisonment, would he have carried out the murders?

I’m troubled by all these things, and at different points in my life, I’ve answered them in different ways. But, when it comes to human life as well as incarceration, I think that all of us should struggle and try to come to grips with the issues and take other views different than our own into consideration.

P.S. JayJay I am concerned about locking up an innocent person for life, but I think with life imprisonment, if the person is found innocent at least he can go free at that point, but if a person is dead, there’s nothing that can be done to make matters even a little bit right. The justice system isn’t all it’s cracked up to be though. I think more people in the u.s. are worried about guilty people going free than they are about innocent people being locked up.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:41 PM   #63
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

YES

There are many evil persons out there who really don't deserve to breathe our air, especialy serial killers and serial rapists. I like to watch those FBI files, forensic detectives and similar shows and have seen some totaly sick stuff. How can that kind of person walk around freely again?
I our county the maximum penalty is 20 years, which is bullshit.
There was a man here who kidnapped 3 or 4 women, killed them and then burned them at home in his fireplace. He was charged for 20 years...thank god the bastard died two years before he would be released.

But of course, death penalty only when the guilt has been 100% proven!
The stories of some people who have been executed or spent decades in jail and later found innocent are just heartbreaking...
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:00 PM   #64
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Originally Posted by star View Post
P.S. JayJay I am concerned about locking up an innocent person for life, but I think with life imprisonment, if the person is found innocent at least he can go free at that point, but if a person is dead, there’s nothing that can be done to make matters even a little bit right.
And that's exactly why the death penalty is utterly barbaric.

Quote:
The justice system isn’t all it’s cracked up to be though. I think more people in the u.s. are worried about guilty people going free than they are about innocent people being locked up.
Scary but I fear it's true, also the same over here. It should of course be the other way round.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:08 PM   #65
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Originally Posted by Mateya View Post
But of course, death penalty only when the guilt has been 100% proven!
The stories of some people who have been executed or spent decades in jail and later found innocent are just heartbreaking...
The problem is that it's pretty hard to find 100% proof.
Yes of course, those cases do exist, but mind you... even a confession surely isn't any 100% 'proof'! There are plenty reports of people who confessed a crime under pressure, because they are not all too intelligent, or having psychological problems.

In my country alone in the past decade there have been at least two cases of accused-and-condemned 'killers' who actually confessed a crime they did NOT commit (in both cases, a homicide/murder). (For those who are interested: look up the "Schiedammer Park Moord" and "De Twee van Putten").
Fortunately for these 'killers', justice could be done for them a couple of years later (which they spent in prison, yup). If we'd have had the death penalty, I don't know what would have happened to them as the media and a lot of the public were already virtually crucifying them before they even got sentenced.

A damn scary thought if those people would have been executed innocently, no?
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:28 PM   #66
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

probably doesn't help to evolve man much to kill upon a kill... although, where is this bad energy supposed to then go...? are we meant to simply absorb it...?
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:48 AM   #67
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Originally Posted by Shambritfan View Post
Personally speaking, I'd rather be quickly and relatively painlessly put to death than have to live out my life in jail, ...
But nothing is quick! You usually stay in prison for years waiting for the execution!
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:52 PM   #68
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

For the record, there was another man who was put to death the same day as Troy Davis: Lawrence Brewer, one of those scumbags who dragged James Byrd Jr. to his death over a decade ago. Was the death penalty wrong for this guy?

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Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
That's a pretty poor "ultimate point", I have to say. The two systems aren't comparable. If you imprison a person for life and he turns out to be innocent, he just gets released. It's fairly hard to release a guy who turns out to be innocent if he's already been executed.
But Norway law does not believe in life sentences, as quoted in that link I posted. Many think it's too harsh. How is a life sentence considered too harsh for the likes of Breivik, who clearly shouldn't be walking about free in society?

Quote:
Contrary to popular belief though, USA isn't always right.
I never said it was. The European media love to act all smug and superior about their no-death-penalty stance compared to 'barbaric' USA but as I said before, they can pretend to be outraged over a supposedly wrongful death like Davis but then along comes a Breivik and suddenly they change their tune. Hence, my comment, "it works both ways".

In any case I shouldn't have compared a cut-and-dry case like Breivik to the Troy Davis case.

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McVeigh didn't die in the electric chair.
It was a figure of speech.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:38 PM   #69
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Originally Posted by tangerine_dream View Post
For the record, there was another man who was put to death the same day as Troy Davis: Lawrence Brewer, one of those scumbags who dragged James Byrd Jr. to his death over a decade ago. Was the death penalty wrong for this guy?
Yes.

Quote:
But Norway law does not believe in life sentences, as quoted in that link I posted. Many think it's too harsh. How is a life sentence considered too harsh for the likes of Breivik, who clearly shouldn't be walking about free in society?
It isn't.

Quote:
I never said it was. The European media love to act all smug and superior about their no-death-penalty stance compared to 'barbaric' USA but as I said before, they can pretend to be outraged over a supposedly wrongful death like Davis but then along comes a Breivik and suddenly they change their tune. Hence, my comment, "it works both ways".

In any case I shouldn't have compared a cut-and-dry case like Breivik to the Troy Davis case.
So some Norwegians reacted to the cruellest murder case in the history of modern Europe by positioning themselves in favour of death penalty. 3/4 of them are still against it. Seems to me like a pretty weak argument as to "changing their tune".
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:48 PM   #70
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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So some Norwegians reacted to the cruellest murder case in the history of modern Europe by positioning themselves in favour of death penalty. 3/4 of them are still against it. Seems to me like a pretty weak argument as to "changing their tune".
Exactly.
As I've heard from some Norwegian friends, they are considering to make a life-long sentence possible now. Which in this particular case might well be a proper idea.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:05 PM   #71
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Exactly.
As I've heard from some Norwegian friends, they are considering to make a life-long sentence possible now. Which in this particular case might well be a proper idea.
I agree.

Tangy: I don't think I have to respond since Har-Tru already did that pretty well, but I never said I want Breivik to roam free again. I do think life-long sentences should exist. Not capital punishment though.
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:46 AM   #72
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

Totally torn on the issue.

I think in some ways its a pitty that the criminal resorted to homicide to solve a problem or conflict, and were showing them at ultimately, were no better by resorting to the same to deal with them. In some ways its an eye for an eye, in others its showing were no superior.

On the other hand, why on earth should they get to live, when someone who was totally innocent doesnt get to?

Of course, you have to prove that dieing actually is a tougher punishment than life in prison. In many ways its not. Its better to burn out, then to fade away? Maybe. Quite frankly I think they enjoy the attention, that day they die all the eyes of the world are on them, everyones talking about their last meal etc. A dignified end in many ways. Vs slowing becoming insignificant and old news rotting away in a cell, where no one cares anymore, and a new killer takes your place in the headlines for a while. A lot of these sick serial killers do it for attention. Killing them gives them even more attention/cause for debate. They are failures who just want their 15 minutes, something theyd never get in their pathetic normal lives.

Then again, id support it if it did act as a deterant. But theres no proof it does. In fact the states that have it I think have the highest murder rates.

Bear in mind, in a time when the death penalty might have worked, we didnt have the potent drugs we have nowadays which many people are on. People in the past who may have thought hard about the punishment might not care anymore.

A tough one. Also, what if the family of the victim dont want the person executed? Do you go against their wishes to prove a point, or anything for them, for justice?

Also, if you have the death penalty, anyone who killed who didnt get it, their lawyers will have a field day trying to get their prison sentances reduced. Example, "well it cant be so obvious they did it otherwise they would be on death row, this case deserves to be reopened" etc.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:57 PM   #73
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

Eye for an eye is somehow a Wild-West-philosophy. The fault of someone doesn't give us the right to make the same fault.

And the other problem is: What is a reasonable doubt? When is someone proven guitly? There are not many cases without any doubts...
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:53 PM   #74
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

pro-death
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:19 PM   #75
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Instead they get three meals a day, shelter and the use of internet and cable television.
Not every prison offers these luxuries.
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