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View Poll Results: Death penalty: Yes or No?

Yes 23 27.38%
No 54 64.29%
Don't know 7 8.33%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-25-2011, 12:29 AM   #46
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

McVeigh didn't die in the electric chair.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:48 AM   #47
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
Retribution, "justice", whatever. Call it what you want. There are other ways to protect society than frying a person's brain.

Contrary to popular belief though, USA isn't always right.
That's a pretty poor "ultimate point", I have to say. The two systems aren't comparable. If you imprison a person for life and he turns out to be innocent, he just gets released. It's fairly hard to release a guy who turns out to be innocent if he's already been executed. And the thought that someone "desperately needs to be taken out of society's gene pool" is just your personal feelings. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but don't speak like everyone shares it.
I think we all know the wrongly executing an innocent person argument. To me the real issue is should a person be executed even if the crime was horrific and the person has admitted guilt, i.e. in cases where there is no question of innocence. To me it’s a question of whether the people want to vest the state with the authority to take a human life. If yes, then under what circumstances and safeguards and serving what purpose.

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McVeigh didn't die in the electric chair.
Yeah. We all know that. Tangy knows it too. Hyperbole. Just like the gene pool part. The problem I have with that sort of polemic is that it keeps us from discussing the real issues, and I do believe there are real issues.
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:50 AM   #48
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Do people have the right to judge about other people's life?
If you are responsible for willingly taking the life of another person - then you should lose all rights to your own.

It is disgusting that people who commit murder have the opportunity to - in some cases, far too many - walk the streets again at some point down the line. While the victim will never have the chance to do the same and their family and friends are left to live with their loss forever.

There is no justice in this world.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:09 AM   #49
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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I think we all know the wrongly executing an innocent person argument. To me the real issue is should a person be executed even if the crime was horrific and the person has admitted guilt, i.e. in cases where there is no question of innocence. To me it’s a question of whether the people want to vest the state with the authority to take a human life. If yes, then under what circumstances and safeguards and serving what purpose.
Is this addressed to me? Because I have already stated my opinion about that earlier in the thread.
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:23 AM   #50
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Originally Posted by star View Post
I think we all know the wrongly executing an innocent person argument. To me the real issue is should a person be executed even if the crime was horrific and the person has admitted guilt, i.e. in cases where there is no question of innocence. To me it’s a question of whether the people want to vest the state with the authority to take a human life. If yes, then under what circumstances and safeguards and serving what purpose.



Yeah. We all know that. Tangy knows it too. Hyperbole. Just like the gene pool part. The problem I have with that sort of polemic is that it keeps us from discussing the real issues, and I do believe there are real issues.
Star, what are these real issues?
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Old 09-25-2011, 02:40 AM   #51
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Star, what are these real issues?
As I outlined: Should it be in the power of the state to deprive a person of life. We all agree that the state can deprive a person of freedom, but some are reluctant to extend that to life. What are the reasons for not so doing.

There seems to be agreement that a person who commits murder deserves a penalty and apparently most agree there is an element of punishment in that penalty. Punishment has various elements. Revenge is something we reject as wrong, but is it wrong? Isn’t that a part of punishment? Punishment also is meant to prevent the act from happening again. A person is supposed to learn from punishment. Deterrence to others who observe the punishment is also part of what punishment is designed to accomplish. What is it that we hope to achieve with murderers and are the punishments we have able to accomplish what we want.

Then here is also the idea of justice for society which I believe is the idea underlying any kind of state imposed penalty. Society has to perceive justice has been done. It’s the common man’s reward in a sense for doing the right thing.

All of these things are real issues.

Also what is humane and civilized factors in. Most of us in western societies agree that bodily mutilation is not appropriate punishment. Yet, why do we agree on this issue? Certainly it saves money on prisons which is an argument some use about the death penalty. Is the death penalty simply the ultimate form of bodily mutilation?

I think reasonable people can disagree. It’s interesting to me why some societies agree on one thing and others on another.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:26 AM   #52
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

Who is we?

Revenge and retribution are the closest things we have to justice in this pathetic world, but unfortunately most murderers for want of a better phrase, get away with murder.

While those of us who wish this world to be completely rid of those who are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (along with countless appeals and re-trials) are considered by some - as barbaric (I believe that was said by someone in this thread). The irony is not amusing.

I detest how often debates over the death penalty turn into a debate on the rights of murderers. I'm not saying that has happened here in this thread - although it surely will, eventually - but history tells me it will.

The rights and wants of the victim(s) and their family are forgotten completely. Apparently there is something noble in keeping murderers alive, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:52 AM   #53
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

The funny thing about the Troy Davis case is how hypocritical the American media are about the Amanda Knox case in Italy, it really beggars belief.
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:34 AM   #54
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
If you are responsible for willingly taking the life of another person - then you should lose all rights to your own.

It is disgusting that people who commit murder have the opportunity to - in some cases, far too many - walk the streets again at some point down the line. While the victim will never have the chance to do the same and their family and friends are left to live with their loss forever.

There is no justice in this world.
that doesnt seem unjust to me at all actually
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:38 AM   #55
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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The funny thing about the Troy Davis case is how hypocritical the American media are about the Amanda Knox case in Italy, it really beggars belief.
Similar with Casey Anthony--there was some backlash but now she's getting media and book deals.
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Old 09-25-2011, 04:58 AM   #56
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Do people have the right to judge about other people's life?
No, because I doubt anyone knows enough about life itself or its complexities.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:38 AM   #57
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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Who is we?

Revenge and retribution are the closest things we have to justice in this pathetic world, but unfortunately most murderers for want of a better phrase, get away with murder.

While those of us who wish this world to be completely rid of those who are found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (along with countless appeals and re-trials) are considered by some - as barbaric (I believe that was said by someone in this thread). The irony is not amusing.

I detest how often debates over the death penalty turn into a debate on the rights of murderers. I'm not saying that has happened here in this thread - although it surely will, eventually - but history tells me it will.

The rights and wants of the victim(s) and their family are forgotten completely. Apparently there is something noble in keeping murderers alive, it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
I don’t think one can divorce retribution from the justice system. If that element is neglected, a society as well as victims may feel justice has not been done. To me, really, it’s a debate about how does society operate to provide justice. What people in one society see as appropriate punishment another may not.

Although personally, I do not like the death penalty at all, I understand it’s an area where reasonable people can disagree.

People get heated on both sides of the issue.

I do have to say that of course the rights of the accused/convicted do have to be taken into account.

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No, because I doubt anyone knows enough about life itself or its complexities.
But this is exactly what the justice system must do. People aren’t omnipotent, but what is the alternative to having people pass judgement on those who violate the rules society has decided upon?

The Navajo way, would be to have a healing ceremony for the wrong doer, but no punishment beyond that. That might work in a society where people can wander over vast territories, but doesn’t seem workable in an urban society. And, that’s the traditional Navajo way. Today, the Navajo government passes decrees punishments to the extent that it has jurisdiction over the crime.
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Old 09-25-2011, 06:34 AM   #58
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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I don’t think one can divorce retribution from the justice system. If that element is neglected, a society as well as victims may feel justice has not been done. To me, really, it’s a debate about how does society operate to provide justice. What people in one society see as appropriate punishment another may not.

Although personally, I do not like the death penalty at all, I understand it’s an area where reasonable people can disagree.

People get heated on both sides of the issue.

I do have to say that of course the rights of the accused/convicted do have to be taken into account.
In my experience in debates on this issue, it is always those who are against the death penalty who end up being unable and/or unwilling to accept that it's reasonable to be for the death penalty. And that just becomes infuriating and is a real turn-off for debate on the subject.

I perfectly understand the case against the death penalty, of course there are flaws to it and injustices against innocent people can, have and will occur - although far less readily I would guess, than injustices against people who end up being locked up.

What I find annoyingly amusing is how some people can't justify the possibility of an innocent man or woman being sentenced to death (which won't actually come into being for years in most cases), but it's perfectly okay to be given a life sentence in prison for an innocent man or woman? As if the latter is not in some cases to be considered worse than death itself.

The death penalty is not a perfect solution and I doubt anyone has ever claimed it to be, but I fail to see how it is any worse than the world and society we currently live in.

I had this same debate at work not too long ago and it got pretty heated - and a common theme of the argument against the death penalty is that it won't deter criminals seeking to murder. And again, it's just amusing how that possibility somehow equates to meaning that being locked up for a few years is a deterrant? We know full well it isn't.

The idea of a person who has committed cold blooded murder being "rehabilitated" and later allowed to melt into society repulses me. Even though I can appreciate that there are plenty of people out there who want to bring out the good and reformed in those who have done wrong, I fail to see how justice is served in such an instance.

You take a life or lives, you spend some time in an environment where you mingle with like-minded individuals, and then you are later released having possibly seen the error of your ways.

And the victim? Oh, nevermind.

The idea of retribution is a must in sentencing, it is usually all a victim's family and friends can hold onto - to see that justice is done. We all know it won't bring the victim back, but that surely has never been the point.

You would think that it is perfectly logical to believe that if you choose to end someone's life, you lose right to your own - but then again, that's the fucked up world we live in, unfortunately.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:46 AM   #59
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

No punishment is deterring to some types of criminals. Reason is that 1) they don't expect to be caught or 2) they don't even think about getting caught/consequences until well after or 3) don't even care.

Only good argument I see for death penalty is that it provides closure for the relatives of the victims. Must be like a nightmare having to hear about appeals every other year and have to go through the pain again. But as discussed, the thought of executing someone innocent and that the decision can't be corrected are issues not easily fixed.

Most criminals are "innocent" according to themselves. Most believe it so hard that even if they were guilty beyond all doubt they could still pass a lie-detector test saying they are innocent. One reason is ofc that many horrible crimes are committed under the influence of drugs or during some mental breakdown so many are not even aware themselves exactly what happened. Witnesses are often unreliable and as seen some change their stories 10+ years later to create a new twist of bullshit. With that in mind the society could probably only execute the ones who actually confess. Ironically those that confess on an early stage sometimes do it as a deal to not get death penalty afaik.


Personally I would like to see the worst criminals work of their sins daily in some grueling and physically tormenting work. Like spending they entire days digging ditches (even if we got machines today). Just to keep the hands busy and the body tired. Also feed them some real cheap and monotonous food. Everyday should be so depressing for them that suicide would seem like a good option.

If someone killed my family for example I would find more comfort in the guilty suffering daily than I would get waiting 10 years to get a quick and almost entirely painless lethal injection.
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:41 AM   #60
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Default Re: What do you think about death penalty?

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No punishment is deterring to some types of criminals. Reason is that 1) they don't expect to be caught or 2) they don't even think about getting caught/consequences until well after or 3) don't even care.

Only good argument I see for death penalty is that it provides closure for the relatives of the victims. Must be like a nightmare having to hear about appeals every other year and have to go through the pain again. But as discussed, the thought of executing someone innocent and that the decision can't be corrected are issues not easily fixed.

Most criminals are "innocent" according to themselves. Most believe it so hard that even if they were guilty beyond all doubt they could still pass a lie-detector test saying they are innocent. One reason is ofc that many horrible crimes are committed under the influence of drugs or during some mental breakdown so many are not even aware themselves exactly what happened. Witnesses are often unreliable and as seen some change their stories 10+ years later to create a new twist of bullshit. With that in mind the society could probably only execute the ones who actually confess. Ironically those that confess on an early stage sometimes do it as a deal to not get death penalty afaik.


Personally I would like to see the worst criminals work of their sins daily in some grueling and physically tormenting work. Like spending they entire days digging ditches (even if we got machines today). Just to keep the hands busy and the body tired. Also feed them some real cheap and monotonous food. Everyday should be so depressing for them that suicide would seem like a good option.

If someone killed my family for example I would find more comfort in the guilty suffering daily than I would get waiting 10 years to get a quick and almost entirely painless lethal injection.
That would be my ideal, too. I'd rather they were tortured every minute of every day...but that would be barbaric.

Instead they get three meals a day, shelter and the use of internet and cable television.
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