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Old 09-21-2011, 08:20 PM   #196
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
Have you ever played tennis? Least adjustable because of the heavy topspin generated by a heavy "upward"-motion of the racket, that would not be possible without a modern racket and string technology that create a large sweetspot that Nadal´s groundstrokes require. I´m sure he would be able to get the ball back over the net even with a coca cola-bottle, my point is that his game would suffer more than Federer´s, who hits the ball flatter, and who has better volleys and slice.
nonsense......that's just one shot you are comparing and even that is not as big as you make it look......compared to fed, nadal's forehand motion is only slightly more difficult to adjust to the wooden rackets.......fed does a lot with his wrist for his forehands to land in at the last minute with accuracy......we are talking about the whole game here......

backhand - nadal with his two hands on, would have moonballed(remember moonballing was a norm in the day) all day and nobody would have attacked his backhand with those wooden frames......but fed? that's an interesting proposition because his drives would hit the frames 19/20.......

serve - nadal's serve would pretty much be the same ineffective one, but fed's weak serving with shitty wooden frames makes a hell lot of a difference to his game......

return - even here, fed enjoys the benefit of strings and stops zooming serves dead and sends them back with so much control.......will he be able to do it with old rackets and present technique albeit confronting slower serves......nadal is not known for his returning either, even though i wouldn't weigh in much on this......

volley - again debatable......fed's technique is just garbage with low balls......standing upright and blocking volleys away is so much easier with these new control and precision oriented rackets than the old ones.......even here, nadal is not known for his volleying and wouldn't affect him all that much......

so overall it's fed's game that would have suffered more had he played in the 60s and 70s......what is even more telling is he is far less adaptable in his own era compared to his biggest rival......
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:26 PM   #197
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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Originally Posted by Roadmap View Post
Judging by what? How grandpa fed beat prime Djokovic at the French Open? Or was it Grandpa fed leading by two sets to love and having match points against prime Djokovic at Flushing Meadows? I will tell you something Saberq. You have a fantastic sense of humour.
Judging by that Fed would have zero chances for slams until 2010 because he peaked in 2004 when he was 23 and if he was born in 87 2010 would have been his peak and with slower surfaces yeah he would hardly get any Slams at the start
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:27 PM   #198
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
nonsense......that's just one shot you are comparing and even that is not as big as you make it look......compared to fed, nadal's forehand motion is only slightly more difficult to adjust to the wooden rackets.......fed does a lot with his wrist for his forehands to land in at the last minute with accuracy......we are talking about the whole game here......

backhand - nadal with his two hands on, would have moonballed(remember moonballing was a norm in the day) all day and nobody would have attacked his backhand with those wooden frames......but fed? that's an interesting proposition because his drives would hit the frames 19/20.......

serve - nadal's serve would pretty much be the same ineffective one, but fed's weak serving with shitty wooden frames makes a hell lot of a difference to his game......

return - even here, fed enjoys the benefit of strings and stops zooming serves dead and sends them back with so much control.......will he be able to do it with old rackets and present technique albeit confronting slower serves......nadal is not known for his returning either, even though i wouldn't weigh in much on this......

volley - again debatable......fed's technique is just garbage with low balls......standing upright and blocking volleys away is so much easier with these new rackets than the old ones.......even here, nadal is not known for his volleying and wouldn't affect him all that much......

so overall it's fed's game that would have suffered more had he played in the 60s and 70s......what is even more telling is he is far less adaptable in his own era compared to his biggest rival......
I would love to be as deluded as you. Arguably the most important shot in tennis back then was the slice (along with volleys). Rod Laver was renowned for his slice like Fed and Nadal are renowned for their forehand. Federer's slices>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>Nadull's slices. The argument is settled then. Federer would find it much easier to make the transition. It is not so much about what they can do now that they would not have been able to do then but what they can do now that they WOULD HAVE been able to do then.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:40 PM   #199
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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I would love to be as deluded as you. Arguably the most important shot in tennis back then was the slice (along with volleys). Rod Laver was renowned for his slice like Fed and Nadal are renowned for their forehand. Federer's slices>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>Nadull's slices. The argument is settled then. Federer would find it much easier to make the transition. It is not so much about what they can do now that they would not have been able to do then but what they can do now that they WOULD HAVE been able to do then.
do you even know what your pals are arguing for? that his present technique fits any era......your argument is, transition would be easier for him because he can slice and dice with the modern rackets and would have done the same with the old rackets......oh right, for somebody who can't even adapt to opposition in his own era, it is a forgone conclusion that he would have replicated some of his own game today......and you are the one talking about delusion......

now ask me what my take on all this is, it is the heart and head that decide who would have been what in which era......what you exhibit with today's equipment wouldn't just blindly translate to the old times......and that applies to all players who are benefitting from technology today, not just one or two who you dislike.......

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Old 09-21-2011, 08:45 PM   #200
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

... Rather likely that Laver would do just fine given his tremendous athleticism and tennis talent.

Slightly ridiculous to imagine him now or imagine Nadal back then.

1. Different nutrition, different paths (coaches, strategies and blah) if born into a different era.

2. Both players proved to be one of the strongest (physically) of their generation (we all know about Laver's Popeye left arm).

3. A great ball striker and tennis talent is a great ball striker and tennis talent. It's simple, Laver wouldn't quite be Laver today and Nadal wouldn't quite be Nadal back then, but they are great ball strikers and tennis talents (and also excellent athletes). You simply cannot take this away from them; in whatever new avenue they would have gone down had they been born at a different time, the core and innate talent would still be there.

If a player proves themselves to be an elite ball-striker and tennis talent then I DON'T GIVE A DAMN about how they produce their strokes and how it would equate to a different era. Arguing such things is UTTERLY fallacious and irrelevant, and devoid of salience, because they would *find a way* to channel their undeniable talent, even if it means producing shots in entirely different ways.

This sort of discussion is practically as useless at times as asking questions about who would have won the Slam Events had Fed not been there, and then assuming that history would follow exactly the same course and X players would still be in the final! Laughable stuff, and philosophically naive.

I disapprove.

P.s. Much love.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:49 PM   #201
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
do you even know what your pals are arguing for? that his present technique fits any era......your argument is, transition would be easier for him because he can slice and dice with the modern rackets and would have done the same with the old rackets......oh right, for somebody who can't even adapt to opposition in his own era, it is a forgone conclusion that he would have replicated some of his own game today......and you are the one talking about delusion......
I have already admitted that Fed would not have been able to smoke the forehand with the old racquets. The same applies to piglet though does it not. Is piggy's forehand not an important shot for him? Federer would have had no problem slicing and dicing with the old racquets. His touch is superb which would hold him in good stead in any era particularly an era which rewarded great touch. I am sure you will tell me that Federer does not have great touch. Jack shit could be achieved in that era without a great slice. This= Nadull would be fucked in that era.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:49 PM   #202
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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Yeah because Sampras slice shot was just so amazing
Pete had one of the best serves of all time, one of the most underrated baseline games of all time, one of the best net games and tranisition to the net games of all time. Won 14 slams with a small pro-staff racket. Pete was customed made for the wooden racket era. Pete was a pretty much a carbon copy clone of Pancho.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:53 PM   #203
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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Originally Posted by Roadmap View Post
I have already admitted that Fed would not have been able to smoke the forehand with the old racquets. The same applies to piglet though does it not. Is piggy's forehand not an important shot for him? Federer would have had no problem slicing and dicing with the old racquets. His touch is superb which would hold him in good stead in any era particularly an era which rewarded great touch. I am sure you will tell me that Federer does not have great touch. Jack shit could be achieved in that era without a great slice. This= Nadull would be fucked in that era.
Ok everybody let's stop with the unintelligible madness, you're all doing yourself no favours. In history, eras have always had great forehands and backhands relative to their times and their peers. Who is to say whether or not Fed would be smoking forehands or not if born into the Laver/Rosewall era. He might have been, or he might have been smoking backhands (presuming he took on a tennis life and didn't have a useless coaching set up). All that can be said is he wouldn't get away with smoking forehands with the technical form he currently exercises.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:56 PM   #204
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
nonsense......that's just one shot you are comparing and even that is not as big as you make it look......compared to fed, nadal's forehand motion is only slightly more difficult to adjust to the wooden rackets.......fed does a lot with his wrist for his forehands to land in at the last minute with accuracy......we are talking about the whole game here......

backhand - nadal with his two hands on, would have moonballed(remember moonballing was a norm in the day) all day and nobody would have attacked his backhand with those wooden frames......but fed? that's an interesting proposition because his drives would hit the frames 19/20.......

serve - nadal's serve would pretty much be the same ineffective one, but fed's weak serving with shitty wooden frames makes a hell lot of a difference to his game......

return - even here, fed enjoys the benefit of strings and stops zooming serves dead and sends them back with so much control.......will he be able to do it with old rackets and present technique albeit confronting slower serves......nadal is not known for his returning either, even though i wouldn't weigh in much on this......

volley - again debatable......fed's technique is just garbage with low balls......standing upright and blocking volleys away is so much easier with these new control and precision oriented rackets than the old ones.......even here, nadal is not known for his volleying and wouldn't affect him all that much......

so overall it's fed's game that would have suffered more had he played in the 60s and 70s......what is even more telling is he is far less adaptable in his own era compared to his biggest rival......
You need to watch more tennis from 60s and early 70s.

The game Federer used to beat Sampras in 2001 at Wimbledon would have worked much better than any game I have seen Nadal deliver. Federer was using serve and volley more than playing from the baseline. He used slice and flatter shots more than extreme topspin. Nadal plays a game further from the 60s and early 70s version of the game.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:57 PM   #205
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Custom Philosophy lesson:

Big blob of putty = available talent to be moulded (dependant on path).
The size of the box it must be moulded in = the capacity of the individual.
The eventual form = the result of path taken (discerns levels of ability in subcategories).

Player X born in one era may be moulded into a giraffe and in another, an elephant. The size of the box remains the same and the blob of putty remains similar given a path of nurture and adequacy.


Discussing the translation of Nadal's slice and net skills into another era is rather asinine. So is the direction of this thread.
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Old 09-21-2011, 08:59 PM   #206
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Whole argument is redundant for one reason: are we (humans) becoming more and more genetically superhuman with every passing generation?

No. This is universally agreed.

Only training methods have improved, therefore allowing athletes of today to get closer to their genetic potential for performance. The potential itself has not changed.

Therefore, JMac, or Laver or Sampras or Wilander or any friggin' other player born in THIS era, would have used the training principles of THIS era, become a modern tennis athlete and achieved similar greatness today that they achieved in their own eras.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:01 PM   #207
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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Originally Posted by Rodre Fegassi View Post
Whole argument is redundant for one reason: are we (humans) becoming more and more genetically superhuman with every passing generation?

No. This is universally agreed.

Only training methods have improved, therefore allowing athletes of today to get closer to their genetic potential for performance. The potential itself has not changed.

Therefore, JMac, or Laver or Sampras or Wilander or any friggin' other player born in THIS era, would have used the training principles of THIS era, become a modern tennis athlete and achieved similar greatness today that they achieved in their own eras.
A wise post.

No point looking and comparing core mechanics but to instead measure tennis talent. If tennis talent is great then greatness will find a way to transpire.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:05 PM   #208
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Default Re: Professor Sampras Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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and it is about to get even better in 2012.

just watch what fed, clay warrior, d-pot, and murray bring to the party in 2012 to better compete with the great serbian slayer.

nole has forced the field`s hand to improve.
'Nole has forced the field's hand to improve'??? You do realize that if you were to use '2011' as an argument that this era was strong, it would be a very poor argument? The level in 2011 across the field was pretty atrocious besides Djokovic. It certainly is not one of the stronger eras and compared to the 90's, it is much weaker, but when compared to the 80's, it is MUCH MUCH worse. People like Sampras (for whatever reasons?) seem to forget about techology differences and the huge impact they make. the field today is no where as good as it has been in the past as far as raw talent, but players can hit the ball with a lot of power more than before just simply due to change in racquet technology.

It says a lot when some of the greatest players ever (Borg, Conners, etc) still seem great in memory despite the fact that they used such meager tennis technology in contrast to today. If they had used what we have today they would have played at even more incredible levels.

anyone who really thinks this era is better than one's in past or even dares to use '2011' has a part of that argument, is either extremely naive or extremely insecure about reality- that this era is certainly not as good as some before it
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:12 PM   #209
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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I have already admitted that Fed would not have been able to smoke the forehand with the old racquets. The same applies to piglet though does it not. Is piggy's forehand not an important shot for him? Federer would have had no problem slicing and dicing with the old racquets. His touch is superb which would hold him in good stead in any era particularly an era which rewarded great touch. I am sure you will tell me that Federer does not have great touch. Jack shit could be achieved in that era without a great slice. This= Nadull would be fucked in that era.
who knows what ballet mug's slice would have been like in the 60s with wooden rackets? who knows what uncle toni would have taught nadal in the 60s? you just can't translate their current games to the past......it's all in the head and heart and nadal is way ahead in that aspect......
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:20 PM   #210
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Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

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Pete had one of the best serves of all time, one of the most underrated baseline games of all time, one of the best net games and tranisition to the net games of all time. Won 14 slams with a small pro-staff racket. Pete was customed made for the wooden racket era. Pete was a pretty much a carbon copy clone of Pancho.
now that's how you make comparisons......that's a telling fact right there......

wilson blx 2011 or babolat aeroprodrive 2011 are a different story altogether and it's only foolish to think that their exact present games would easily translate to 50 years ago in the exact same form or that one would be a fit for any era and the other not because he doesn't employ a textbook style......
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