Pete Sampras & Boris Becker apparently Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever - Page 12 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 09-21-2011, 05:03 PM   #166
country flag Sophocles
Registered User
 
Sophocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 40
Posts: 8,934
Sophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by r2473 View Post
I'm questioning how many people have actually watched matches of the players from that era. Not highlights. Not statistics. But watched the matches, and understand the tennis of that era. And not just the 1 or 2 top guys (Laver, etc). 1 or 2 guys doesn't make "the strongest era".

All of these Tilden experts. How much have you seen him play? What do you know about his opponents?

Most people responding are not even 30 years old and I really doubt if any single one of them knows anything more about Laver than some highlight reel film and some statistics. To me, that isn't much of an argument to proclaim that he played in the strongest era.

Anyway, of course you can't compare era's. But it's even worse when you compare them without knowing too much about them. All I'm reading is that people don't really like the tennis played today, so in an attempt to dismiss it, they are reminising about the "good old days"......which they now nothing about. My guess is that if these people were around back then, they would be thinking that Laver was only good because it was a "weak era".
This is a fair post. All I can say is that I have seen extensive highlights & several whole matches from a range of players in the 1960s & 1970s, & as far as I can tell, the game then was slower paced but more deft, a difference largely attributable to the difference in racquet technology. If you compare the best player then to the best player of the current era, even without alliowing for difference in racquets, there's not much in the serve or return, or indeed movement. Federer's forehand is way better, Laver's backhand looks about the same as Fed's even with a wooden racquet, & Federer has never got anywhere near Laver's springing agility at the net. Allow for the fact that Laver was using a racquet that made the game about 10 times more difficult & you are brave indeed to assert Laver couldn't have hacked it today.
__________________
"There is no such thing as 'the world'." - Enoch Powell.
Sophocles is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 09-21-2011, 05:07 PM   #167
country flag Sophocles
Registered User
 
Sophocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 40
Posts: 8,934
Sophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
It never ceases to amaze me how little respect some people have for Laver, Rosewall etc. Those guys played with rackets that had sweetspots the size of a fist, if they hit it flat. Imagine how small the sweetspot became if they hit with slice ( which they did all the time) or topspin ( less than Nadal, but they did that too). The hand-eye coordination had to be sublime, focus had to be absolute, and if you hit outside the sweetspot, the racket was pretty much dead. Is the game more physical now than it was then? For sure, but that´s at the cost of artistry, accuracy, touch and finesse that existed back then. Who would win with older/newer equipment is always subject to debate, and it´s pointless to argue about it. But players of the 1960-80´s were certainly not worse than Fed or Nadal.
Excellent post. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Why people feel the need to denigrate past champions I will never know. Guess what? The human species hasn't evolved over the last 10,000 years, let alone the last 50. There is no field of human endeavour in which mankind's abilities have magically risen. Plato & Aristotle are just as intelligent as anybody today. We know more than the great minds of the past, but what? We know them. Performance has improved in some fields because we are able to build on the past, & adjust technology to enhance our performance still further.
__________________
"There is no such thing as 'the world'." - Enoch Powell.
Sophocles is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:08 PM   #168
country flag Sophocles
Registered User
 
Sophocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 40
Posts: 8,934
Sophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Oh & it's worth pointing out that in the clips Groove has put up, Laver was about 35 & way past his prime.
__________________
"There is no such thing as 'the world'." - Enoch Powell.
Sophocles is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:08 PM   #169
country flag r2473
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 2,379
r2473 has a reputation beyond reputer2473 has a reputation beyond reputer2473 has a reputation beyond reputer2473 has a reputation beyond reputer2473 has a reputation beyond reputer2473 has a reputation beyond reputer2473 has a reputation beyond reputer2473 has a reputation beyond reputer2473 has a reputation beyond reputer2473 has a reputation beyond reputer2473 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
It works both ways. I agree, most people havent seen the 60-70´s era in action. But then how can you dismiss those eras in favor of this era? It´s always debatable, but having some respect to past great shouldn´t be too much to ask.
I don't dismiss them. I know very little about them. I suspect few people around here really do.

I think what I object to most is that people are pretending to be experts on past era's (and this one) and that they are in a position to compare the two. I'm guessing pretty much nobody around here is.

With that in mind, I have far more respect for Sampras' opinion than most (and you'd be a fool not to). He's certainly in a position to compare his era to the current era. He probably can make a pretty fair comparison between some former era's as well. Better than most anyway.

By the way, the thread title is very disrespectul to Sampras.
r2473 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:09 PM   #170
country flag SetSampras
Registered User
 
SetSampras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 3,173
SetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

I dunno... laver was pretty small. Could he physically go up against the mountain of men with the new racket technology of the 90s-present? I find it hard to believe Laver could hang with Sampras, Fed, Nadal, Nole with newer racket technology. Laver was a great, but his style fit the wooden racket era. Not sure he could hang. Maybe.

Maybe these guys could only succeed with the wooden rackets. I believe Borg came back and tried to adapt to the modern style without the wooden racket and he didn't fare too well

Last edited by SetSampras : 09-21-2011 at 05:16 PM.
SetSampras is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:15 PM   #171
country flag Sophocles
Registered User
 
Sophocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 40
Posts: 8,934
Sophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetSampras View Post
I dunno... laver was pretty small. Could he physically go up against the mountain of men with the new racket technology of the 90s-present? I find it hard to believe Laver could hang with Sampras, Fed, Nadal, Nole with newer racket technology. Laver was a great, but his style fit the wooden racket era. Not sure he could hang. Maybe.
Well, Ferrer can & Laver was a fair bit more talented than him.

And Borg tried to come back with a wooden racquet in his mid-thirties, 10 years after he last played serious professional tennis, at a time when everybody else was using state-of-the-art equipment.
__________________
"There is no such thing as 'the world'." - Enoch Powell.
Sophocles is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:18 PM   #172
country flag Sophocles
Registered User
 
Sophocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 40
Posts: 8,934
Sophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by r2473 View Post
I don't dismiss them. I know very little about them. I suspect few people around here really do.

I think what I object to most is that people are pretending to be experts on past era's (and this one) and that they are in a position to compare the two. I'm guessing pretty much nobody around here is.
Nobody's "pretending to be an expert", but some of us are trying to make a fair judgment on the basis of common sense & the limited evidence available, resisting the modern media-based trend to glorify the present day.
__________________
"There is no such thing as 'the world'." - Enoch Powell.
Sophocles is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:20 PM   #173
country flag Dougie
Registered User
 
Dougie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,701
Dougie has a reputation beyond reputeDougie has a reputation beyond reputeDougie has a reputation beyond reputeDougie has a reputation beyond reputeDougie has a reputation beyond reputeDougie has a reputation beyond reputeDougie has a reputation beyond reputeDougie has a reputation beyond reputeDougie has a reputation beyond reputeDougie has a reputation beyond reputeDougie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetSampras View Post
I dunno... laver was pretty small. Could he physically go up against the mountain of men with the new racket technology of the 90s-present? I find it hard to believe Laver could hang with Sampras, Fed, Nadal, Nole with newer racket technology. Laver was a great, but his style fit the wooden racket era. Not sure he could hang. Maybe.

Maybe these guys could only succeed with the wooden rackets. I believe Borg came back and tried to adapt to the modern style without the wooden racket and he didn't fare too well
Why would Laver´s greatness be measured by how he would adapt to modern technology or physical demands of the game??? Put a wooden racket in Nadal´s hands and move him to 1970´s, and he´d be triple-bageled by Rosewall. So who´s to say who´s the greatest?
Dougie is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:22 PM   #174
country flag SetSampras
Registered User
 
SetSampras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 3,173
SetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougie View Post
Why would Laver´s greatness be measured by how he would adapt to modern technology or physical demands of the game??? Put a wooden racket in Nadal´s hands and move him to 1970´s, and he´d be triple-bageled by Rosewall. So who´s to say who´s the greatest?
Well can't just throw a wooden racket in Nadal's hand and say, "Here go beat Laver or Rosewall". Same as you can't throw a racket of today in Rod's hands and tell him to go beat Fed and Nadal. You have to grow up and play under those conditions. Players have gotten bigger ( something Rod was short of) and stronger etc since Laver's time. I just find it hard to believe someone whos 5'6 or 5'7 could dominate the game the way Laver did in the 60s. Havent seen too many dominate guys in the last 20 some years who were 5-6 inches below 6 feet tall. Laver was incredibly talent but I think he would need more strength and size to dominate like the 80s-present.

The only guy have heard about and seen a bit of who I think could dominate in the later years was probably Pancho Gonzales. He had the size, strength, and all around ability.
SetSampras is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:28 PM   #175
country flag Sophocles
Registered User
 
Sophocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 40
Posts: 8,934
Sophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond reputeSophocles has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetSampras View Post
Well can't just throw a wooden racket in Nadal's hand and say, "Here go beat Laver or Rosewall". Same as you can't throw a racket of today in Rod's hands and tell him to go beat Fed and Nadal. You have to grow up and play under those conditions. Players have gotten bigger ( something Rod was short of) and stronger etc since Laver's time. I just find it hard to believe someone whos 5'6 or 5'7 could dominate the game the way Laver did in the 60s. Havent seen too many dominate guys in the last 20 some years who were 5-6 inches below 6 feet tall. Laver was incredibly talent but I think he would need more strength and size to dominate like the 80s-present.

The only guy have heard about and seen a bit of who I think could dominate in the later years was probably Pancho Gonzales
And by an extraordinary coincidence, Gonzales is the player from that era most similar to Sampras.

You may well be right, but as Dougie says, that's only half the story. How would Nadal do in Laver's era with his weird technique & his main weapon, his extreme topspin, unavailable to him?
__________________
"There is no such thing as 'the world'." - Enoch Powell.
Sophocles is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:34 PM   #176
country flag Johnny Groove
Future ATP Star
 
Johnny Groove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Age: 24
Posts: 35,521
Johnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

This is another reason why many people believe Federer is the GOAT, assuming he could play in any era with any equipment.
__________________
Respect the Laws of MTF
Brush up on your tennis history, people- Top 101 Tennis Players of all Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
What do you like doing on MTF most?
Reading Johnny Groove threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
Johnny blurs the line between grandeur and grandiose
Johnny Groove is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:38 PM   #177
country flag SetSampras
Registered User
 
SetSampras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 3,173
SetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Pancho was a good 6'2 or 6'3.. Moved like a cat around the court despite his size. Serve absolute bombs even with a wooden racket, he was great the net, great from the baseline. While Laver had a pretty looking serve, he wasn't a big server by any means. I think he beat Laver in a big match in Madison Square Garden when he was 41 years old? He had the ability to bully the best of best on the court because of his serve. Pancho was a physical beast of Nature (at that time in the 50s) that could have dominated any era. In alot of ways he was like a Sugar Ray Robinson. 40 plus years too soon but had the type of game and the size and the strength to dominate in any era
SetSampras is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:40 PM   #178
country flag SetSampras
Registered User
 
SetSampras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 3,173
SetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
This is another reason why many people believe Federer is the GOAT, assuming he could play in any era with any equipment.
It would be raining Shanks if you stuck Fed out there with wooden racket. And he had a good net game, but he would have had to develop a much better one to compete with some of those guys though.
SetSampras is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:42 PM   #179
country flag Start da Game
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,179
Start da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

if anything history taught to us, it is the idea that tennis is 80% mental......laver had the heart of a champion......like somebody above said, forehand bot david ferrer hit the top 5......there is no reason to believe that laver wouldn't have hung with today's players......the little man had mad skill and a champion's head......
Start da Game is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:46 PM   #180
country flag SetSampras
Registered User
 
SetSampras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 3,173
SetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond reputeSetSampras has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Dr. Sampras , Ph.D, MD, DVM, Believes This Is the Strongest Era Ever

Quote:
Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
if anything history taught to us, it is the idea that tennis is 80% mental......laver had the heart of a champion......like somebody above said, forehand bot david ferrer hit the top 5......there is no reason to believe that laver wouldn't have hung with today's players......the little man had mad skill and a champion's head......
Yea.. and even Ferrer has been overpowered most of his career by select individuals. Heck Roddick overpowered him.
SetSampras is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios