1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESULTS - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

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Old 07-27-2011, 12:14 PM   #16
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

fascinating read and really does show some drastic changes in statistics that I had not known were there
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

certainly interesting stuff.
bit of a problem though: there are undeniable statistical changes, but you dont know what to attribute them to. is it the surface or the players or the equipment or something else?
why not try running a similar test (yes, i realize its a huge effort ) on a tournament, that has remained the same (uso/mc) and see if the trends are in the same direction?
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

About the best post/thread that came up over here in ages' times.
Great stuff indeed.
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:19 PM   #19
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

Interesting. Don't have time to look at it much, but that second serve win% difference is off-the-charts enormous. You wouldn't see anywhere close to that nowadays at any tournament - hard courts they go from Doha at 49.7%, to Cinci at 52.3%. Clay goes from 47.4% at Umag, to 52.0% at Gstaad. Grass from 51.0% (Newport) to 51.9% (Queens), and indoors from 49.7% (Valencia) to 52.8% (Basel).

What I'd probably want to do with those figures is filter out claycourt specialists from the 94 figures, since they likely spoil the serve stats more than in recent years (doesn't take many guys winning 21% of second serve points to drag down the average).
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Old 07-27-2011, 03:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

It is amazing to see that racket technology has overshadowed the type of grass as the major influence on serve.

You should get these stats published somehow as they are necessary for any tennis fan to see.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:19 PM   #21
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

we have some accountants here. never bring work to home.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Interesting. Don't have time to look at it much, but that second serve win% difference is off-the-charts enormous. You wouldn't see anywhere close to that nowadays at any tournament - hard courts they go from Doha at 49.7%, to Cinci at 52.3%. Clay goes from 47.4% at Umag, to 52.0% at Gstaad. Grass from 51.0% (Newport) to 51.9% (Queens), and indoors from 49.7% (Valencia) to 52.8% (Basel).

What I'd probably want to do with those figures is filter out claycourt specialists from the 94 figures, since they likely spoil the serve stats more than in recent years (doesn't take many guys winning 21% of second serve points to drag down the average).
Indeed -- the difference in means between the two years' second serve points won stat is amazing. I knew that it was going to be under 50% and probably less than 47% for Wimbledon 1994, but I didn't know it would go down to 43.8%. As I entered the numbers, I saw that very few players won 50% of their second serve points in 1994 and most of those players did so in 3 set matches -- the longer the match went on, the lower % of second serve points were won. Serving and volleying on second serves, unless you had a great second serve and athleticism, was a losing proposition.

You read my mind, philosophicalarf. When I have the time, I can put up serve stats for say the top 10 servers in each year. I can also run a t-test for Rd of 32 and afterwards which would presumably leave us with players suited to play on the surface with the technology available at the time.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodo View Post
certainly interesting stuff.
bit of a problem though: there are undeniable statistical changes, but you dont know what to attribute them to. is it the surface or the players or the equipment or something else?
why not try running a similar test (yes, i realize its a huge effort ) on a tournament, that has remained the same (uso/mc) and see if the trends are in the same direction?
I was thinking about doing 1993 USO vs 2010 USO or maybe 1993 RG vs 2010 RG. I don't know if it'll happen though -- I'll have to wait until the next transatlantic flight.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

Excellent analysis.

Very intriguing.
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:59 PM   #25
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

That's some deep shhh right there doggie, mad learning skills
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:29 PM   #26
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

Very interesting read NYCtennisfan, well done.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:39 PM   #27
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

Slow my asss. A clear proof that this board is full of pretentious charlatans and complainers.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

NYCTennisfan; marvellous to see you posting regularly again
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:25 PM   #29
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

Great stats and research really it must took some time to get all this so thanks for this that we all can see thas. I must admit even that i don´t agree much with slowing down of surfaces - can you imagine that with this new racquets, strings, and strenght of taller players, more physicall game we would have the same lighter quicker balls and faster, lower bouncing surfaces? i mean if today is impossible for most guys to return 200km plus serve if you hit lines , probably 180km will be too much with those things. So really now when we think about how the game changed even if we don´t like it most people with ,,old,, surfaces and lighter quicker balls the game will be today just only about serve - more than ever. About that 2nd serve points won - it was stupid for players in 90s to go to the net even after slow 2nd serve - but maybe don´t even know there is another way to play the game to stay on the baseline, they maybe knew only about one way off winning points- SV style players.
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:14 AM   #30
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Default Re: 1994 WIMBLEDON ("FAST GRASS") vs. 2011 WIMBLEDON ("SLOW GRASS"): INTERESTING RESU

I said condiction is fester with new rekets,but....
Let's compare physical appearance of tennis players today and players from past...thay don't have similarity at all
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