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Old 09-10-2008, 02:41 PM   #46
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

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Haha, I'm not sure that's possible but Jan Silva will try his best

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Old 09-10-2008, 02:45 PM   #47
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

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Originally Posted by Oxygene7 View Post
Nice avatar adee-gee.

Nice comments Mac the knife, and I agree. Nadal could struggle in a couple of years when he will probably have slightly less large advantages over other top players in terms of groundstrokes and will therefore need his serve to start functioning more effectively than it currently is.
That's what Federer has done.

His serve has always been great but now that he is a step or two slower and his groundtrokes arent as crisp as they used to, he is throwing down 20 aces a match.

All serve this Fed, hear that in the past year?
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:46 PM   #48
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

Nadal doesn't focus on a great serve technique, Federer at 22/23 was pretty much the same (completely different on Wimbledon and Federer, even as a teenager had a better serve than peak-Nadal), then when Fed was aging he started getting better at serving. Will we see the same with Nadal? Hopefully not.
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Old 09-10-2008, 02:54 PM   #49
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

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Originally Posted by Blaze-2004 View Post
That's what Federer has done.

His serve has always been great but now that he is a step or two slower and his groundtrokes arent as crisp as they used to, he is throwing down 20 aces a match.

All serve this Fed, hear that in the past year?
Yeah, I've heard it. The all serve Federer comments are completely stupid. However he has definitely not always been able to beat his opponents from the baseline and his very good serve which he is obviously constantly working on has helped him. Nadal will need to do the same in not so long, developing a more potent serve based on placement and maybe a touch of extra speed if possible. Due to an increased parity in baseline play in the future which I predict, he will have less overwhelming advantages off the ground. Nadal has already done a great job in becoming more aggressive and therefore shortening points which is already a hugely positive step in terms of his quest to be a great player for a long period of time.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:04 PM   #50
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

Nadull has no serve. That's a fact.

Next.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:25 PM   #51
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

Nadal's serve is sufficient to get the job done, I'd presume that his primary focus is directed towards decently placing the ball in order to allow for him to better position himself to maintain the upper-hand in service rallies. Ironically enough, this facet of his game matches up perfectly against Roger, which isn't always the case when opposing more aggressive returners, e.g. Andy Murray.

Roger's service game tends to revolve around more of a conventional strategic approach, also it needs to be noted that earlier in his career, Roger would serve & volley on 1st serves and even occasionally on 2nd serves -- which demands that one's 2nd serve be exceptional.

I wouldn't expect for Nadal's serve to improve to the point that he would be able to build his game around it. In fact, once Nadal loses a bit of pace on his groundstrokes, it's going to be extremely difficult for him to compete against quality opposition. In addition, his volleying skills are less than mediocre, therefore even with a stronger serve, how would he go about taking advantage of it ? I seriously doubt Nadal is going to start attacking net with regularity. Moreover, technological advancements have made it nearly impossible to follow the same pattern over the course of an entire match without the opposition finally catching on and making the necessary adjustments.

Anyway, this post isn't meant to demean Nadal in any sort of way, however I feel that when the time comes (and it will come, it's only a matter of time) Nadal isn't simply going to be able to transition his service game in the same way in which Roger has done so. It's all about movement with Nadal, he's a great player, but over the course of time he will perish due to the inherent level of difficulty in restructing one's game.

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Old 09-10-2008, 03:28 PM   #52
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

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Originally Posted by prima donna View Post
Nadal's serve is sufficient to get the job done, I'd presume that his primary focus is directed towards decently placing the ball in order to allow for him to better position himself to maintain the upper-hand in service rallies. Ironically enough, this facet of his game matches up perfectly against Roger, which isn't always the case when opposing more aggressive returners, e.g. Andy Murray.

Roger's service game tends to revolve around more of a conventional strategic approach, also it needs to be noted that earlier in his career, Roger would serve & volley on 1st serves and even occasionally on 2nd serves -- which demands that one's 2nd serve be exceptional.

I wouldn't expect for Nadal's serve to improve to the point that he would be able to build his game around it. In fact, once Nadal loses a bit of pace on his groundstrokes, it's going to be extremely difficult for him to compete against quality opposition. In addition, his volleying skills are less than mediocre, therefore even with a stronger serve, how would he go about taking advantage of it ? I seriously doubt Nadal is going to start attacking net with regularity. Moreover, technological advances have made it nearly impossible to follow the same pattern over the course of an entire match without the opposition finally catching on and making the necessary adjustments.

Anyway, this post isn't meant to demean Nadal in any sort of way, however I feel that when the time comes (and it will come, it's only a matter of time) Nadal isn't simply going to be able to transition his service game in the same way in which Roger has done so. It's all about movement with Nadal, he's a great player, but over the course of time he will perish due to the inherent level of difficulty in restructing one's game.
Wow, a post about Nadal that I agree with

His volleying really isn't that bad though.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:31 PM   #53
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

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Originally Posted by prima donna View Post
Nadal's serve is sufficient to get the job done, I'd presume that his primary focus is directed towards decently placing the ball in order to allow for him to better position himself to maintain the upper-hand in service rallies. Ironically enough, this facet of his game matches up perfectly against Roger, which isn't always the case when opposing more aggressive returners, e.g. Andy Murray.

Roger's service game tends to revolve around more of a conventional strategic approach, also it needs to be noted that earlier in his career, Roger would serve & volley on 1st serves and even occasionally on 2nd serves -- which demands that one's 2nd serve be exceptional.

I wouldn't expect for Nadal's serve to improve to the point that he would be able to build his game around it. In fact, once Nadal loses a bit of pace on his groundstrokes, it's going to be extremely difficult for him to compete against quality opposition. In addition, his volleying skills are less than mediocre, therefore even with a stronger serve, how would he go about taking advantage of it ? I seriously doubt Nadal is going to start attacking net with regularity. Moreover, technological advancements have made it nearly impossible to follow the same pattern over the course of an entire match without the opposition finally catching on and making the necessary adjustments.

Anyway, this post isn't meant to demean Nadal in any sort of way, however I feel that when the time comes (and it will come, it's only a matter of time) Nadal isn't simply going to be able to transition his service game in the same way in which Roger has done so. It's all about movement with Nadal, he's a great player, but over the course of time he will perish due to the inherent level of difficulty in restructing one's game.
PD, you outdid yourself with this post.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:44 PM   #54
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

In a way, Nadal's unique approach to his service game has proven advantageous. Roger would always seemingly break Andy Roddick at will, even on quicker surfaces. I remember commentators praising Roger's relatively simplistic approach to returning, then Nadal came along and started focusing on placement and positioning; Roddick has always been raw power, he also is unable to consistently come in behind his monster serves due to mediocre volleying skills.

The very strengths which worked to Roger's benefit against more limited players, have plagued him against Nadal. It's the fact that Nadal wants him to simply slice the ball back, while players like Roddick would urinate all over themselves at the mere sight of someone actually managing to get the return in play. However, as movement diminishes with age, Nadal will find it all the more difficult to employ this strategy.

Sampras was a 1-2 punch type of player, either it was going to be a huge forehand off a weak service return or a smash following a 130mph ball with impeccable placement.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:34 AM   #55
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

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Originally Posted by Stupid Dream View Post
PD, you outdid yourself with this post.
I expect these things from PD but for you to agree with it?

This "It's all about movement with Nadal" is nonsense and I really am amazed to see a Nadal fan who has watched a match or two in an objective way agreeing with that. Movement is important for Nadal obviously - is at is for every player - but to sit here and say, as a Nadal fan like yourself that you agree it's all about movement with him?

Come on, Karin. Deep down, there's still a Rafa fan in you who doesn't merely like him because he says nice things about Roger. Don't morph into Mellow Yellow.

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Originally Posted by adee-gee
Obviously it would be nice for Nadal to have a better serve and get more cheap points, but it isn't essential. Keeping decent length on his groundies on the other hand is an absolute must with the game he plays.
Exactly.

His serve is underrated IMO but even as a fan you have to admit that it's never going to be a top weapon for him. Indeed, key for him are those groundies.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:45 AM   #56
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

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I expect these things from PD but for you to agree with it?

This "It's all about movement with Nadal" is nonsense and I really am amazed to see a Nadal fan who has watched a match or two in an objective way agreeing with that. Movement is important for Nadal obviously - is at is for every player - but to sit here and say, as a Nadal fan like yourself that you agree it's all about movement with him?

Come on, Karin. Deep down, there's still a Rafa fan in you who doesn't merely like him because he says nice things about Roger. Don't morph into Mellow Yellow.
You trying to be funny or what? Movement is the absolute key to Nadal's game, it's what he builds his game on. It's like saying Roddick's game isn't built around his serve. The things that Nadal does very well are linked to the movement, the anticipation and the fitness/endurance levels to keep up his level of play for the length of time he does are vital to his game.

Like any player he is going to have to adapt to survive in his later years on court, when he loses a bit of pace around the court, then he isn't going to be as effective, as he won't be in the best positions to hit the strokes like previously.

His serve relies more on placement and spin than pace, but he will have to beef that up, then there will come a time, when he will have to flatten out his strokes more than he does at the moment. He will still donkey punch players on clay for some time, but the other surfaces, well it's a matter of time, before they catch up.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:51 AM   #57
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

Movement is important for him, yes. but it's not all there is either so I disagree with the "It's all about movement with Nadal" statement because it's simplistic as a notion.

I agree about the need to adapt, though. But team Nadal are working on that and he has improved, esp. if you compare with how he played 2 years ago.

His serve has improved, not in sheer speed but in placement, as you noted yourself. Even the players have noted in press conferences how his serve is getting more and more difficult to read.
Like I said, his serve will never be a big weapon but he has worked on it and it's improving which is something quite a few MTF experts didn't consider as a possibility 3 years ago.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:57 AM   #58
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
Movement is important for him but it's not all there is either so I disagree with the "It's all about movement with Nadal" statement because it's simplistic.

I agree about the need to adapt, though. But team Nadal are working on that and he has improved, esp. if you compare with how he played 2 years ago.
Movement is the key to his game and you don't need to working at CERN to realise this. It's not like guys with massive serves, who can win cheap points through the serve. Movement is the central thing to Nadal, it's all interrelated.

So Nadal is going to be blowing people off court like Safin did in his peak, now?
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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:59 AM   #59
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

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Originally Posted by PMK is Innocent View Post
So Nadal is going to be blowing people off court like Safin did in his peak, now?
No, I've never said that. His serve is never going to be a big weapon.

Nadal often uses a serve just to set up the point whereas a big server can start and finish a point just with his serve. Nadal can do that from time to time but it's rare and it's not key to his game.
However, there's more to a serve than speed and he has improved the variety and placement of his serve, making it more difficult to read and this is something he needs to work on some more. But no, he's never going to blast players off court with his serve.

Movement is key for every player.

However, I agree that on hardcourts, he often runs too much after the ball instead of being agressive, getting good length on his shots and letting the ball do the running for him so to speak.
Before you say it, I don't think that hardcourts is ever going to be his playground but he has room for improvement.

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Old 09-11-2008, 07:10 AM   #60
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Default Re: Nadal's Serve

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
No, I've never said that. His serve is never going to be a big weapon.

Nadal often uses a serve just to set up the point whereas a big server can start and finish a point just with his serve.
Which is in essence what I had summarized in my analysis of his service game, so what part of my post did you find yourself at odds with ?
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