Johnny Groove's Top 69 Players Ever (Djokovic #21 of all time) - Page 80 - MensTennisForums.com

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View Poll Results: How accurate was I?

5/5- Almost 100% spot on, Mr. Groove. I may switch a few around here or there, but good work 63 18.10%
4/5- More or less. I disagree with a few, but not bad at all 146 41.95%
3/5- Hmmmm, I dunno. Some look a bit dicey, mate 50 14.37%
2/5- Are you nuts? Why is X player in Y position? You are completely dissing Z player! 19 5.46%
1/5- Are you high and or drunk? WTF?!?!?! 70 20.11%
Voters: 348. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-12-2012, 11:51 PM   #1186
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

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Those players in the 60' cant be compared to modern players Groove.They are worse in every single way
Impossible to tell. If Federer would have been in the 60s with the same talent, would he have managed to beat them ? If they would have been in modern time with their same talent, would they have managed to beat Fed ? The game was certainly different, but talent was the same. Given different stimuli and different game pace, who knows how good or bad tennis players would have been in different eras ?

It's all as subjective as this thread.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:56 PM   #1187
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

Great list JG.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:16 AM   #1188
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

It seems as though the Tournament Of Championships, so called slam, was discontinued after 1959.This was before Rosewall and Laver reached their peak, therefore, it is not fair to them and should not be added to Pancho's slam count. The 3 official slams were mostly continous until 1968 and should only be considered pro slams.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:17 AM   #1189
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

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Throw a couple of weeks my way and I'll totes back you up Renshaw won't miss a couple.


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OK then, have fun. It just seems like now no-one likes it whereas a lot of people liked the old way
True genius always takes time to be recognized

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Just read your new list. The fact is, however, that Gonzalez never won a clay slam. Tilden one a single French Pro, though I am not sure if it was on clay. Federer only had one clay slam, a year that he did not have to face Nadal, though I do agree that he is a great clay court player. Just out of curiosity, are you still including Amateur era? If so, Rosewall should have 23 Slams. If not, you have to take away 4 slams from Ken, 5 from Laver and 2 from Gonzalez. Well, at least you got Ken back into the top 5, though I think he should be above Tilden and should be credited with about 300 weeks @ #1. Lets face it, the ranking system in tennis has been rather questionable over the years, especially before the open era.
I am counting every slam ever. Amateur, pro, and open era. The overall question of who truly is the GOAT is ever evolving and extremely difficult to dissect. This list takes into account only slams and #1, the 2 most important stats, imo. Davis Cup, Year End Masters, or anything below slams and #1, I have gotten rid of, for now at least. All I did with this list was try to do the impossible, compose a fair GOAT list

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Jesus this list is a disgrace.....Fed at 3.........yes those two mugs at 1 and 2 are better than him.....they might have even won a game or two against him if they ever played against each other.Those players in the 60' cant be compared to modern players Groove.They are worse in every single way


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Impossible to tell. If Federer would have been in the 60s with the same talent, would he have managed to beat them ? If they would have been in modern time with their same talent, would they have managed to beat Fed ? The game was certainly different, but talent was the same. Given different stimuli and different game pace, who knows how good or bad tennis players would have been in different eras ?

It's all as subjective as this thread.
Yes

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Great list JG.
Appreciation is always appreciated.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:18 AM   #1190
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

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It seems as though the Tournament Of Championships, so called slam, was discontinued after 1959.This was before Rosewall and Laver reached their peak, therefore, it is not fair to them and should not be added to Pancho's slam count. The 3 official slams were mostly continous until 1968 and should only be considered pro slams.
Every slam counts, and counts as a percentage. Gonzales winning TOC only counted as 0.4 of a slam, while in 1960, Rosewall's slams counted as 0.5.

Now I know the list ain't perfect, but its as good as i can get it.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:21 AM   #1191
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

Strange list. Fed at #3 and people winning slams between 0 and 1?
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:24 AM   #1192
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

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Every slam counts, and counts as a percentage. Gonzales winning TOC only counted as 0.4 of a slam, while in 1960, Rosewall's slams counted as 0.5.

Now I know the list ain't perfect, but its as good as i can get it.
That's not right. At the moment, you're counting it as 0.7 of a slam, remember. Average of 1 and 0.4. 1958 has a total of seven slams counting, if you add together the fractions.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:39 AM   #1193
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

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Strange list. Fed at #3 and people winning slams between 0 and 1?
Well for example, the great Sven Davidson.

Davidson won RG in 1957, a year where there was 9 slams. To be fair to modern players, who don't have 9, but 4 slams, I have counted each slam in 1957 as 0.44 of a slam. However, since the tour was split in '57, and Davidson could only play 4 of the 9 slams, it ain't really 100% fair to only count it as 0.44, so, I took 1 slam and 0.44, and averaged it out to 0.72 of a slam for Sven Davidson.

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That's not right. At the moment, you're counting it as 0.7 of a slam, remember. Average of 1 and 0.4. 1958 has a total of seven slams counting, if you add together the fractions.
1958 had 10 ( ) slams, mate. Gonzales winning the TOC counted as 0.4 of a slam, averaged with 1 is 0.7, part of Gonzales' 20.66 slams.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:42 AM   #1194
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

Not going to comment about the list's accuracy as it's YOUR list but you know a lot more about the history of the sport than me. Anyways, props for the effort. I wonder where you find the time to actually play tennis. You should become a tennis historian or sth. Call ESPN and tell them you can replace McEnroe.
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Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:47 AM   #1195
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

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Not going to comment about the list's accuracy as it's YOUR list but you know a lot more about the history of the sport than me. Anyways, props for the effort. I wonder where you find the time to actually play tennis. You should become a tennis historian or sth. Call ESPN and tell them you can replace McEnroe.
If I train 3 hours a day and sleep 10 hours a day, I still have 11 hours to do stuff

After my career is when I plan to be a commentator, maybe open up the academy.

It is funny, in real life, whenever I talk to older teaching pros about tennis, like grips and gamestyles, 1 vs. 2 hand backhands, how to string, how to teach, etc., they always dismiss me as if I don't know what I'm talking about

Are they afraid of me taking their business? Are they discriminating against me due to my mixed race appearance? Due to my young age? It is funny, the same things I am saying now and getting dismissed, are the same things I am going to be saying in 5 years, when my ranking will be significantly higher, and the same people who were blowing me off will say: "Oh, what a great idea!"

Funny how life works this way, eh?
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:50 AM   #1196
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

Shit happens in all walks of life, Groove. I am in the same position. I've been saying the same things since I was 12 but now my opinion counts because I've been through university . Just persevere and you'll get there.

PS I thought you had to train more than 3 hours a day .
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Davis Cup should never have really mattered in the GOAT discussion anyway since it's a team event. If you're talking about the GOAT singles player then you should mainly look at individual results.
If some unknown talent came out of some random tiny country (no chance to win DC) and won 20 slams, no one would give a single shit if that player didn't have DC. The fact is, success in DC is largely determined by what country you come from or play for in the first place, which most players haven't had any control over.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:59 AM   #1197
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

Intriguing list. Just a few things I'd question:

Kriek- like the other list, I feel is again too high. Two pretty average fields with only Vilas and a teenage Wilander standing out as elite players in 81. 82 field looks way worse than Shanghai 2011.

Del Potro over Johansson- I assume this is cause he beat Fedal, but Johansson's career has a slam and a TMS title whereas Del Potro just has the slam. JMDP has the higher peak ranking though.
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:35 AM   #1198
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

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Intriguing list. Just a few things I'd question:

Kriek- like the other list, I feel is again too high. Two pretty average fields with only Vilas and a teenage Wilander standing out as elite players in 81. 82 field looks way worse than Shanghai 2011.

Del Potro over Johansson- I assume this is cause he beat Fedal, but Johansson's career has a slam and a TMS title whereas Del Potro just has the slam. JMDP has the higher peak ranking though.
With all due respect, why would anyone care about the ranking of Kriek, Johansson or even Del Porto. Delpo does still have a good opportunity to imporve his ranking, and I hope he does. I think the pro slams shoud be given a .75 ranking, the amateur .4 or .5 Overall, a good list and a job well done professor.
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:01 AM   #1199
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 159 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 36, Murray- 107

having pancho number one suits me just fine- he is one of my heroes.
federer at number 3 does seem a little low but then again why not

your list looks fine to me- now mr.groove what we would love is for you to write about each player like you did before- makes great reading and helps educate us about tennis history
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:09 AM   #1200
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (All slam champs and #1's, post #11

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1. Pancho Gonzales, 364 weeks and 20.66 slams

Again, it is impossible that Gonzales has 364 weeks (7 x 52 weeks), because he actually retired in may 1960, and unretired in december 1960, so he did not have 52 weeks as #1 in 1960.
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