Johnny Groove's Top 69 Players Ever (Djokovic #11 of all time, Wawrinka #56) - Page 62 - MensTennisForums.com

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View Poll Results: How accurate was I?

5/5- Almost 100% spot on, Mr. Groove. I may switch a few around here or there, but good work 66 18.33%
4/5- More or less. I disagree with a few, but not bad at all 151 41.94%
3/5- Hmmmm, I dunno. Some look a bit dicey, mate 53 14.72%
2/5- Are you nuts? Why is X player in Y position? You are completely dissing Z player! 19 5.28%
1/5- Are you high and or drunk? WTF?!?!?! 71 19.72%
Voters: 360. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-20-2012, 12:47 PM   #916
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

Fortunately, we have the Open Era now, and records are easier to track. In my following list, be advised that some players like Rosewall, Laver, and Newcombe, whose careers spanned Open and Pre-Open Era, their numbers are only from Spring 1968, only Open Era.

Open Era, strictly slam numbers, I know there are other stats, but just to make it easy:

1. Federer- 17 slams
2. Sampras- 14 slams
3. Borg- 11 slams
4. Nadal- 11 slams
5. Lendl- 8 slams
6. Connors- 8 slams
7. Agassi- 8 slams
8. McEnroe- 7 slams
9. Wilander- 7 slams
10. Becker- 6 slams
11. Edberg- 6 slams
12. Laver- 5 slams including CYGS
13. Djokovic- 5 slams
14. Newcombe- 5 slams
15. Rosewall- 4 slams
16. Vilas- 4 slams
17. Courier- 4 slams
18. Ashe- 3 slams
19. Guga- 3 slams
20. Kodes- 3 slams
21. Nastase- 2 slams
22. Hewitt- 2 slams
23. Smith- 2 slams
24. Kafelnikov- 2 slams
25. Rafter- 2 slams
26. Safin- 2 slams
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:51 PM   #917
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Don't be a mug Groove. I respected you and this thread. You can't move him bcs of 2 seasons and bcs WWII messed with his career and bcs of some book. Why is he better than Sampras who has 14 Slams and he has 5?? Maybe if he played in those year, he would get injured and not win and GS. You can't know that. This list suppose to be a sorted by achievements, not your likings of some books.
you talking about Jack I assume.
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Nadull was not injured. The reason he was moving like shit near the end of the third set is because of the depression of knowing your opponent is superior in all departments.

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Old 09-20-2012, 12:51 PM   #918
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Originally Posted by uxyzapenje View Post
Don't be a mug Groove. I respected you and this thread. You can't move him bcs of 2 seasons and bcs WWII messed with his career and bcs of some book. Why is he better than Sampras who has 14 Slams and he has 5?? Maybe if he played in those year, he would get injured and not win and GS. You can't know that. This list suppose to be a sorted by achievements, not your likings of some books.
Question is: How much is Budge's CYGS in 1938 worth? How much weight should one put in the opinions of men who actually played against the guy? Both Kramer and Vines have Budge as #1

And Budge has like 10 slams, mate.

What about the 1948 US Pro when 33 year old past peak Budge took 27 year old Peak Kramer to 5 sets? Or the 1953 US Pro when 38 year old way past it Budge made the finals and took 25 year old peak Gonzales to 4 tough sets?
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:54 PM   #919
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

6 straight.

4 Pros.

out of 28 slams, he didn't make the semis on 4 occasions.
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Nadull was not injured. The reason he was moving like shit near the end of the third set is because of the depression of knowing your opponent is superior in all departments.

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Old 09-20-2012, 01:00 PM   #920
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

Quote:
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Question is: How much is Budge's CYGS in 1938 worth? How much weight should one put in the opinions of men who actually played against the guy? Both Kramer and Vines have Budge as #1

And Budge has like 10 slams, mate.
They have them bcs they respect are overestemate players they played against. You bet that when they are all retired Nadal will say Djokovic was in top10 players ever, Novak will say Rafa is in top3, they will even put Murray in top20. I'm not saying Kramer or Budge were bad, just look at it this way: Fed is the GOAT. Rafa owns Fed. And if tomorrow Fed and Novak say 'Rafa is the best player who ever lived' would you put Rafa as no1??
And budges 10 Slams and CYGS < Sampras' 14 Slams IMO, but that's IMO. 14 Slams > 5 Slams is not IMO, that's a fact
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:02 PM   #921
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Question is: How much is Budge's CYGS in 1938 worth? How much weight should one put in the opinions of men who actually played against the guy? Both Kramer and Vines have Budge as #1

And Budge has like 10 slams, mate.
I am quite sure uxyzapenje was wondering more about Kramer's ascent than Budge's. I too have Kramer lower down. More like where he was on your list yesterday. So - can you convice us as to why he deserves better?
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:02 PM   #922
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

P.S. I'm talking about Kramer, not Budge, I thought that was obvious...
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:04 PM   #923
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

I am not expert on tennis history but having someone as random as Kramer in the top 8 is incorrect. His previous ranking of 21 is more accurate IMHO. Obviously, this is still Groove's thread, so he can have Young as #1
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:09 PM   #924
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

If 14 Slams is not > 5 Slams, then fuck it, I have Djokovic as no3 on my list...
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:11 PM   #925
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTim View Post
6 straight.

4 Pros.

out of 28 slams, he didn't make the semis on 4 occasions.
Budge was a beast.

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Originally Posted by uxyzapenje View Post
They have them bcs they respect are overestemate players they played against. You bet that when they are all retired Nadal will say Djokovic was in top10 players ever, Novak will say Rafa is in top3, they will even put Murray in top20. I'm not saying Kramer or Budge were bad, just look at it this way: Fed is the GOAT. Rafa owns Fed. And if tomorrow Fed and Novak say 'Rafa is the best player who ever lived' would you put Rafa as no1??
And budges 10 Slams and CYGS < Sampras' 14 Slams IMO, but that's IMO. 14 Slams > 5 Slams is not IMO, that's a fact
Oh, you mean Kramer? Yes he did only win 5 slams, but in those days, it was more lucrative on the pro tour to play barnstorming sessions. From 46-52, he owned everyone. Riggs, what was left of Budge, Segura, Gonzales, and Sedgman.

As for Budge over Sampras, this is also subjective, but I'm giving it to Budge.

Quote:
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I am quite sure uxyzapenje was wondering more about Kramer's ascent than Budge's. I too have Kramer lower down. More like where he was on your list yesterday. So - can you convice us as to why he deserves better?
Kramer set the standard for tennis post WW2 His long tours where he was clearly superior to all challengers is proof enough, in my opinion.

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I am not expert on tennis history but having someone as random as Kramer in the top 8 is incorrect. His previous ranking of 21 is more accurate IMHO. Obviously, this is still Groove's thread, so he can have Young as #1
Kramer is random? A player who was #1 in the World for 4 years is random? The guy who was basically the father of modern pro tennis is random? The guy has a tennis racket named after him for fuck's sake and you call him random?
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:12 PM   #926
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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If 14 Slams is not > 5 Slams, then fuck it, I have Djokovic as no3 on my list...
It's not ALL about slams, mate. If it was, then Rosewall would be #1 all time, with his 23 slams, but he never won Wimbledon.

And Djoko at 3, now you trollin'.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:12 PM   #927
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Originally Posted by uxyzapenje View Post
Don't be a mug Groove. I respected you and this thread. You can't move him bcs of 2 seasons and bcs WWII messed with his career and bcs of some book. Why is he better than Sampras who has 14 Slams and he has 5?? Maybe if he played in those year, he would get injured and not win and GS. You can't know that. This list suppose to be a sorted by achievements, not your likings of some books.
Agree.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:15 PM   #928
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Budge was a beast.



Oh, you mean Kramer? Yes he did only win 5 slams, but in those days, it was more lucrative on the pro tour to play barnstorming sessions. From 46-52, he owned everyone. Riggs, what was left of Budge, Segura, Gonzales, and Sedgman.

As for Budge over Sampras, this is also subjective, but I'm giving it to Budge.



Kramer set the standard for tennis post WW2 His long tours where he was clearly superior to all challengers is proof enough, in my opinion.



Kramer is random? A player who was #1 in the World for 4 years is random? The guy who was basically the father of modern pro tennis is random? The guy has a tennis racket named after him for fuck's sake and you call him random?
Ok Grovee, I get that you put Budge over Sampras. But Kramer over Sampras (and other like Borg or Nadal)? 5 Slams is 5 Slams. It's (almost) 3 times less than Sampras...
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:16 PM   #929
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Ok Grovee, I get that you put Budge over Sampras. But Kramer over Sampras (and other like Borg or Nadal)? 5 Slams is 5 Slams. It's (almost) 3 times less than Sampras...
Come on, now, slams is not everything. Kramer was #1 for 4 years, the same as Borg and Nadal combined.

I've put Sampras back over Kramer.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:21 PM   #930
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (Murray one slam away from making l

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Come on, now, slams is not everything. Kramer was #1 for 4 years, the same as Borg and Nadal combined.

I've put Sampras back over Kramer.
Ranking those days (and until well into the open era) were shit. I mean look at Vilas who dominated the '77 season, had the longest winning streak in history of the sport, won 2 Slams and still wan't the no1 (by todays ranking system he would be)
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