Johnny Groove's Top 69 Players Ever (Djokovic #21 of all time) - Page 35 - MensTennisForums.com

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View Poll Results: How accurate was I?

5/5- Almost 100% spot on, Mr. Groove. I may switch a few around here or there, but good work 62 18.02%
4/5- More or less. I disagree with a few, but not bad at all 146 42.44%
3/5- Hmmmm, I dunno. Some look a bit dicey, mate 49 14.24%
2/5- Are you nuts? Why is X player in Y position? You are completely dissing Z player! 19 5.52%
1/5- Are you high and or drunk? WTF?!?!?! 68 19.77%
Voters: 344. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-24-2012, 05:20 PM   #511
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

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Fed is the GOAT even if he retires tomorrow.....that is until Johnny comes on tour
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:45 PM   #512
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

Another hypothetical thing:
The Djoker wins all the slams until next year's French open.
Where will he be on the list?
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:51 PM   #513
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

Interesting list. A few questions:

-will/can Del Potro make it if he wins a second Grand Slam title?

-if the likes of Tsonga, Murray, Berdych, etc... any currently Slamless guy really, win a Slam can they make it? If I'm not mistaken, all the guys in your list have won at least two Slams. Don't know if it's a requirement or just coincidence. Can you make the list with merely one Slam if your other achievements are great?

-How much will Novak rise if he gets the Nole Slam?
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:13 PM   #514
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ori View Post
Another hypothetical thing:
The Djoker wins all the slams until next year's French open.
Where will he be on the list?
Well, this is exceptionally unlikely to happen, but if Nole wins RG 2012, Wimbledon 2012, USO 2012, AO 2013, and RG 2013, it would be tough to keep him out of the top 5 of all time.

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Interesting list. A few questions:

-will/can Del Potro make it if he wins a second Grand Slam title?

-if the likes of Tsonga, Murray, Berdych, etc... any currently Slamless guy really, win a Slam can they make it? If I'm not mistaken, all the guys in your list have won at least two Slams. Don't know if it's a requirement or just coincidence. Can you make the list with merely one Slam if your other achievements are great?

-How much will Novak rise if he gets the Nole Slam?
This list has a 2 slam minimum to get onto the list. If anything, Roddick is the closest to getting onto this list.

If Novak should win Roland Garros, probably somewhere around 15 of all time.
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Old 04-22-2012, 05:41 PM   #515
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

Does Nadal move ahead of Lendl if he wins RG?
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:18 PM   #516
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

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Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
Well, this is exceptionally unlikely to happen, but if Nole wins RG 2012, Wimbledon 2012, USO 2012, AO 2013, and RG 2013, it would be tough to keep him out of the top 5 of all time.



This list has a 2 slam minimum to get onto the list. If anything, Roddick is the closest to getting onto this list.

If Novak should win Roland Garros, probably somewhere around 15 of all time.
Fair enough. Imagine Del Potro wins a second Slam this or next year. Or that one of the current Slamless players in the top 10 (or even outside) managed to grab two Slams. Would that earn them direct inclusion in the list or would they merely be considered?

Without the two Slam rule, I feel Roddick would deserve a place already. I think his overall career is far more accomplished than Kafelnikov, Rafter, among others. IMO, the difference between 1 and 0 Slams is impossible to overcome (a player who never won a Slam can in no circumstance be greater than one who did), but not so much between 2 and 1.

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Old 04-22-2012, 10:09 PM   #517
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

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Does Nadal move ahead of Lendl if he wins RG?
I would have to do it and put Nadal at 9, juuuuuust behind Borg.

The reason I haven't done it already is because Lendl has so many YEC and and a few years more at World #1 than Nadal has. But, only 8 slams.

11 slams for Rafa along with the rest of his resume, if he wins RG 2012, he'll be #9 of all time.

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Fair enough. Imagine Del Potro wins a second Slam this or next year. Or that one of the current Slamless players in the top 10 (or even outside) managed to grab two Slams. Would that earn them direct inclusion in the list or would they merely be considered?

Without the two Slam rule, I feel Roddick would deserve a place already. I think his overall career is far more accomplished than Kafelnikov, Rafter, among others. IMO, the difference between 1 and 0 Slams is impossible to overcome (a player who never won a Slam can in no circumstance be greater than one who did), but not so much between 2 and 1.
Safin, Rafter, and Kafelnikov all have more than just 2 slams, all have been ranked #1 and have numerous other titles. If Delpo wins another slam, he'd be very close, but he's got to get to #1
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:29 PM   #518
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

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Safin, Rafter, and Kafelnikov all have more than just 2 slams, all have been ranked #1 and have numerous other titles. If Delpo wins another slam, he'd be very close, but he's got to get to #1
Yes, I agree that Safin, Hewitt, Rafter and Kafelnikov have done a lot in their careers, but I still feel you could argue Roddick is on the same level/above them. True, he has one Slam and they all have 2, but Roddick was year-end no.1 (2003), reached four finals only losing to no.2 on your list (some of them really tight) and had more longevity at the top.

I understand he's not included because of the 2-Slam rule, was just trying to make a case for him.

Fair enough about Delpo. What about, say, Murray? In the quite impossible scenario that he wins 2 Slam titles, would he be included bu virtue of his Masters titles or would he have to reach #1 as well?
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:14 PM   #519
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

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Yes, I agree that Safin, Hewitt, Rafter and Kafelnikov have done a lot in their careers, but I still feel you could argue Roddick is on the same level/above them. True, he has one Slam and they all have 2, but Roddick was year-end no.1 (2003), reached four finals only losing to no.2 on your list (some of them really tight) and had more longevity at the top.

I understand he's not included because of the 2-Slam rule, was just trying to make a case for him.

Fair enough about Delpo. What about, say, Murray? In the quite impossible scenario that he wins 2 Slam titles, would he be included bu virtue of his Masters titles or would he have to reach #1 as well?
If Murray won 2 slams, but didn't reach #1? I might put him at #55, and bump Jan Kodes off the list.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:16 AM   #520
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

Hola a todos esta es mi lista

Updated 28 DE MAYO 2012.

Link oficial: http://espntenis.freebb3.com/viewtop...tart=60#p25120

Top 100 ALL TIME (1877-2012) :

Top 25 detailed:

1.Rod Laver (AUS):_(11GS, 8PS, N°1: 1965-1969, co-numero 1 en 1964 y 1970, Ganador GS amateur 1962, Ganador del Pro Slam en 1967 y único ganador GS era open 1969)

2.Roger Federer (SUI):_(16GS, 6MC, 20 MS, N°1: 2004-2007 y 2009, Ganador GS carrera 2009, 5 Wimbledon consecutivos (2003-2007), 5 US Open consecutivos (2004-2008), 10 finales consecutivas de GS, record vigente de 31 cuartos de final consecutivos en GS)

3.Ken Rosewall (AUS):_(8GS,15PS,5MS, N°1: 1961-1963, co-numero 1 en 1960,1964 y 1970, record de torneos majors (23), Ganador del Pro Slam en 1963, 7 French Pro consecutivos (1960-1966), record: mayor diferencia de años entre su primer y último GS (19 años))

4.Pete Sampras (USA):_(14GS,5MC,11MS, N°1: 1993-1998, 4 Wimbledon consecutivos(1997-2000), record 286 semanas #1, record mismo GS era open 7 WB, empatado con Gonzales en años indiscutido como numero 1 del mundo)

5.Bjorn Borg (SUE):_ (11GS,2MC,15MS, N°1: 1978-1980, co-numero 1 en 1977, 5 Wimbledon consecutivos (1976-1980), 3 (RG+ WB) consecutivos 1978-1980, mejor % victorias era open (82,7%) y en torneos GS (89,8%))

6.Pancho Gonzales (USA):_ (2GS,15PS, 7MS, N°1:1954-1959, co-numero 1 en 1952 y 1960, 7 US Pro consecutivos (1953-1959), record de 6 años como #1 del mundo indiscutido)

7.Bill Tilden (USA):_ (10GS, 4PS, 1HCCC, 16MS, N°1: 1920-1921,1923-1925, 1931, co-numero 1 en 1922, 6 US Open consecutivos (1920-1925) record de 95 victorias consecutivas)

8.Ivan Lendl (USA):_ (8GS,5MC,22MS,N°1:1985-1987, mayor cantidad de finales perdidas en GS (11), record finales consecutivas en MC(9) y USO (8))

9.Don Budge (USA):_(6GS, 4PS, 6MS, N°1: 1938-1940, 1942, (co-numero 1 en 1937), Ganador GS en 1938, Ganador del PS de carrera en 1940, 6 GS consecutivos, mayor cantidad de victorias consecutivas en GS (37 victorias))

10.Rafael Nadal (ESP):_ (10GS,0MC,21MS,1JJOO 2008, N°1: 2008 y 2010, 4 RG consecutivos (2005-2008), Ganador GS de carrera mas joven era open (2010), record: ganador de 3 GS consecutivos en 3 superficies distintas (2010))


11.Jimmy Connors (USA):_(8GS,1MC,17MS, N°1:1974,1976,1982, mayor cantidad de titulos y victorias era open, 109 y 1242 respectivamente)

12.André Agassi (USA):_(8GS,1MC,17MS,1JJOO 1996, N°1: 1999, Ganador de GS carrera 1999, unico jugador era open en ganar todos los titulos importantes)

13.John McEnroe (USA):_ (7GS,3MC,19MS,N°1:1981,1983-1984, Mejor temporada era open 82-3)

14.Fred Perry (ING):_(8GS,2PS,3MS,N°1: 1935-1937 y 1941, (1934 numero 1 indiscutido), Ganador de GS carrera 1935, primer jugador en lograrlo)


15.Stefan Edberg (SUE):_(6GS,1MC,8MS, 1JJOO 1984, N°1:1990-1991, Quedó a 1 set de lograr el GS de carrera (perdió RG 1989 con Chang) y lograr el hito de Agassi)

16.Henry Cochet (FRA):_ (7GS,1PS, 1WHCC,2WCCh, 17MS, JJOO: Plata 1924, N°1: 1928-1930, Ganador de 6 Copa Davis con Francia, nunca jugó AO)

17.Lawrence Doherty (ING):_ (6GS,JJOO: 1900, N°1: 1903-1906, co-numero 1 en 1902, 4 Copa Davis (1903-1906), 5 Wimbledon consecutivos (1902-1906), Mejor año 1903 (ganó todos los majors importantes), durante su carrera RG lo disputaban solo franceses, y el AO comenzó recién en 1905)

18.Boris Becker (ALE):_(6GS,3MC,13MS, alcanzó N°1 en 1991, Jugador mas joven en ganar Wimbledon a los 17 años)

19.Tony Wilding (NZL):_ (6GS,5MS,1WCCH,1WCCC,N°1: 1913, co-numero 1 en 1911 y 1912, 4 Wimbledon consecutivos (1910-1913), mejor Neozelandés de la historia)

20.Mats Wilander (SUE):_(7GS,0MC, 8MS,N°1: 1988, 1 de 6 jugadores en ganar 3 GS en una misma temporada en la era open)


21. Ellsworth Vines (USA):_ (3GS, 5PS, N°1: 1932, co-numero 1 en 1935-1937, venció en finales de Majors a Tilden, Perry, Cochet, solo perdió 2 finales contra Budge (Crawford (WB en 1933) y French Pro 1939)

22.René Lacoste (FRA):_ (7GS,N°1: 1926 Y 1927, 3 RG, 2 WB, 2 USO y 2 CD, venció en finales de Majors a Tilden y Cochet)

23.Lew Hoad (AUS):_ (4GS, 1 PS, alcanzó el numero 1 del mundo en 1956, 1 de 4 jugadores en ganar los primeros 3 GS de la temporada (AO+RG+WB) en 1956, los otros son Budge, Laver y Crawford, perdió 7 finales de Pro Slam todas contra Gonzales y Rosewall en 6 de estas 7, justo en años donde ambos fueron numero 1 indiscutidos)

24.Jack Kramer (USA):_ (3GS, 2PS, N°1: 1948,1949,1951 y 1953, co-numero 1 del mundo en 1950 y 1952)

25.Roy Emerson (AUS):_ (12GS, alcanzó el número 1 del mundo en 1964, Ganador del GS de carrera en 1964, 3ra racha mas larga con 55 partidos consecutivos ganados)


26.John Newcombe (AUS)
27.Jack Crawford (AUS)
28.Bobby Riggs (USA)
29.Illie Nastase (RUM)
30.Novak Djokovic (SERB)

31.Arthur Ashe (USA)
32.Williams Larned (USA)
33.Guillermo Vilas (ARG)
34.Frank Sedgman (AUS)
35.Jim Courier (USA)

36.Tony Trabert (USA)
37.Lleyton Hewitt (AUS)
38.Reggie Doherty (ING)
39.Pancho Segura (ECU/USA)
40.Jean Borotra (FRA)

41.Stan Smith (USA)
42.Jaroslav Drobny (CHEC/EGYP)
43.Ashley Cooper (AUS)
44.Guga Kuerten (BRA)
45.Hans Nusslein (ALE)

46.Gottfried Von Cramm (ALE)
47.Marat Safin (RUS)
48.Bill Johnston (USA)
49.Neal Fraser (AUS)
50.Tony Roche (AUS)

51.Pat Rafter (AUS)
52.Norman Brookes (AUS)
53.Fred Stolle (AUS)
54.Karel Kozeluh (CHEC)
55.Yevgeny Kafelnikov (RUS)

56.Arthur Gore (ING)
57.Jan Kodes (CHEC)
58.Andy Roddick (USA)
59.Maurice McLoughlin (USA)
60.Michael Chang (USA)

61.Ted Schroeder (USA)
62.Gerald Patterson (AUS)
63.Manuel Santana (ESP)
64.Frank Parker (USA)
65.Adrian Quist (AUS)

66.Michael Stich (ALE)
67.Thomas Muster (AUST)
68.Alex Olmedo (PER/USA)
69.John Bromwich (AUS)
70.Vic Seixas (USA)

71.Goran Ivanisevic (CRO)
72.Andres Gimeno (ESP)
73.Manuel Orantes (ESP)
74.Malcolm Anderson (AUS)
75.Nicola Pietrangeli (ITA)

76.Carlos Moyá (ESP)
77.Budge Patty (USA)
78.Juan Carlos Ferrero (ESP)
79.Marcelo "Chino" Rios (CHI)
80.Vitas Gerulaitis (USA)*

81.Richard Krajicek (HOL)
82.Sergi Bruguera (ESP)
83.Richard Norris Williams (USA)
84.Vinnie Richards (USA)
85.James Anderson (AUS)

86.Pat Cash (AUS)
87.Petr Korda (CHEC)
88.Mervyn Rose (AUS)
89.Andres Gomez (ECU)
90.Roscoe Tanner (USA)

91.Juan Martín Del Potro (ARG)
92.Sven Davidson (SUE)
93.Ken McGregor (AUS)
94.Dick Savitt (USA)*
95.Jannick Noah (FRA)

96.Alex Corretja (ESP)
97.Nicolay Davydenko (RUS)
98.David Nalbandian (ARG)
99.Miloslav Mecir (ESL)
100.Henry "Bunnie" Austin (ING)


(26 to 100) will be more detailed in a more time...


Terminology:

PS = Pro Slam, WCCC = World Covered Court Championship, WHCC = World Hard Court Championship, MS = Masters Series, MC = Masters Cup, GS = Grand Slam, JJOO = Juegos Olimpicos, CD = Copa Davis, RG = Roland Garros, WB = Wimbledon, AO = Australiano Open.


Honorable mentions:

Tom Okker, Harry Hopman, Adriano Pannatta, Andy Murray, Harold Solomon, Rafael Osuna, Brian Gottfried, Eddie Dibbs, Andrei Medvedev, Albert Costa, Todd Martin, Thomas Johansson y Guillermo Coria.


Historical players:

Richard Sears (USA): ganador de 7 Us Open seguidos (1881-1887)

Williams Renshaw (ING): ganador de 6 Wimbledon seguidos (1881-1886); el último en 1889;finalista en 1890; 7 años #1; 1881-1886,1889.

Joshua Pim (IRL/ING): 2 Wimbledon seguidos 1893-1894; 2 finales en 1891-1892; 5 años #1: 1890-1991, 1893-1895.

Wilfred baddeley (ING): 3 Wimbledon 1891-1892 y 1895; 3 finales en 1893-1894 y 1896; #1:4; 1891-1892, 1895-1896


Dwight Davis (USA): fundador de la Copa Davis en 1900 se jugó la primer edición

James Dwight (USA): llamado "el padre fundador del tenis estadounidense"

Malcolm Whitman (USA): gano el partido que significo el primer titulo de Copa Davis, jugado en 1900

Oliver Campbell (USA): jugador mas joven en ganar el US Open hasta que Pete Sampras ganara a los 19 años



PD: Buena lista Johnny!

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Old 04-23-2012, 07:07 AM   #521
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

Fed instead of Laver @ #1
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:51 PM   #522
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

I think the discussion of the GOAT´S is reduced by 6 great players, and in them we find similutes to compare, so I think I would be a more equitable ranking hehe.

1.Federer-Laver
2.Rosewall-Tilden
3.Sampras-Gonzales
4.Budge-Borg
5.Lendl-Nadal
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:14 PM   #523
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

Editado al 14 de Mayo 2012.

Saludos!
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:51 PM   #524
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

I guess your list makes sense although I'm not so familiar with players and competition pre-open era. Maybe we could do some other list simply made as math equation with different weights: for slams (pro and non-pro), WTFs, Masters, competition era, No of titles and their weight etc. although it would be hard to make consensus about it cause it's not all in numbers (but it could be translated by math language someway )

Anyway great job!

One suggestion: You could bold active players so we easily see where are our current favorites (hoping that more players enter your list)
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:31 PM   #525
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

If either Federer or Djokovic win RG this year, something that has not happened since 1969 will occur, male player with two Career Slams or with four slams in a row. Either way it would boost their rankings in this thread.
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