Johnny Groove's Top 69 Players Ever (Djokovic #21 of all time) - Page 33 - MensTennisForums.com

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View Poll Results: How accurate was I?

5/5- Almost 100% spot on, Mr. Groove. I may switch a few around here or there, but good work 62 18.02%
4/5- More or less. I disagree with a few, but not bad at all 146 42.44%
3/5- Hmmmm, I dunno. Some look a bit dicey, mate 49 14.24%
2/5- Are you nuts? Why is X player in Y position? You are completely dissing Z player! 19 5.52%
1/5- Are you high and or drunk? WTF?!?!?! 68 19.77%
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Old 01-16-2012, 05:10 PM   #481
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

Sorry, but Amateur slams should not be involved in the slam count.

Let us say we had amateur and pro slams now.

The Amateur slam will consist of players ranked 17 and below (Isner, Gasquet, F. Lopez, Cilic, Wawrinka, etc)

The Pro slam consist of players ranked 1-16 (Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray, Ferrer, Tsonga, Berdych, Fish, Tipsarevic, Almagro, Del Potro, Soderling, Dolgopolov, Simon, Monfils, Roddick)

Winning the latter comes close to being worth as much as winning a current slam because #1-16 are the players a player must beat to win a current slam, but do you suppose that the winning the prior comes even close to being worth as much as winning a current slam?

I conclude that all amateur slams before the open era should not be part of the slam count.
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Old 01-16-2012, 06:00 PM   #482
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Originally Posted by Smiling Buddha View Post
Sorry, but Amateur slams should not be involved in the slam count.

Let us say we had amateur and pro slams now.

The Amateur slam will consist of players ranked 17 and below (Isner, Gasquet, F. Lopez, Cilic, Wawrinka, etc)

The Pro slam consist of players ranked 1-16 (Djokovic, Nadal, Federer, Murray, Ferrer, Tsonga, Berdych, Fish, Tipsarevic, Almagro, Del Potro, Soderling, Dolgopolov, Simon, Monfils, Roddick)

Winning the latter comes close to being worth as much as winning a current slam because #1-16 are the players a player must beat to win a current slam, but do you suppose that the winning the prior comes even close to being worth as much as winning a current slam?

I conclude that all amateur slams before the open era should not be part of the slam count.
This is the truth, neither pro-slams or amateur slams should count as slams, pro-slams as maybe 2/3 slams and amateur slams 1/3 of a slam, or you give 1/2 for each but you cant count both as full slams, it is ridiculous to have players at the same time competing in 2 different tours and both count as on par with this generation on difficulty level.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:22 PM   #483
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

The Pro slams had the top players from the amateur era, Emerson being the main exception, which is why he won 12. The Pro slams should counted, the amateur ones should not
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:08 PM   #484
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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The Pro slams had the top players from the amateur era, Emerson being the main exception, which is why he won 12. The Pro slams should counted, the amateur ones should not
Agreed. Laver has 6 amateur slams, 8 pro slams and 5 open era slams. His 8 pro slams and 5 open era slams should be part of his slam count, giving him 13 instead the 19 he is given by the OP.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:26 PM   #485
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Agreed. Laver has 6 amateur slams, 8 pro slams and 5 open era slams. His 8 pro slams and 5 open era slams should be part of his slam count, giving him 13 instead the 19 he is given by the OP.
I give Laver 5 Slams ....pro and amateur slams dont count in my book .......Fed is the GOAT
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:49 PM   #486
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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I give Laver 5 Slams ....pro and amateur slams dont count in my book .......Fed is the GOAT
Even if for strange reasons people chose not to care about your book, Federer would still be the GOAT.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:29 AM   #487
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Even if for strange reasons people chose not to care about your book, Federer would still be the GOAT.
not according to Grove dude here and his flawless logic
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:07 PM   #488
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

A lot on the line for both Djokovic and Nadal on Sunday.

Should Djokovic win, surely the mental edge over Nadal will be definite. Could Nadal be able to survive another blow to the ego from yet another finals loss to Djokovic? If Nole wins, he will move up to about 26 or so of all time with his 5 slams, and be closing in on guys like Edberg, Becker, and Wilander.

Should Nadal win, the mental battle with him and Djokovic will be completely turned on its ear. Nadal will have confidence to the moon, and MTF will predict the calendar year Golden grand slam (for whoever wins). In terms of all time GOATness, if Nadal wins, he'll get his 11th slam. 2 AO, 6 RG, 2 Wimbledon, 1 USO. I would have to move him ahead of Lendl, into the #9 spot, and Rafa will be in shooting distance of Borg at #8 as well as Budge at #7 depending on how the rest of his 2012 goes.

A lot of history on the line this Sunday.
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:37 PM   #489
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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A lot on the line for both Djokovic and Nadal on Sunday.

Should Djokovic win, surely the mental edge over Nadal will be definite. Could Nadal be able to survive another blow to the ego from yet another finals loss to Djokovic? If Nole wins, he will move up to about 26 or so of all time with his 5 slams, and be closing in on guys like Edberg, Becker, and Wilander.

Should Nadal win, the mental battle with him and Djokovic will be completely turned on its ear. Nadal will have confidence to the moon, and MTF will predict the calendar year Golden grand slam (for whoever wins). In terms of all time GOATness, if Nadal wins, he'll get his 11th slam. 2 AO, 6 RG, 2 Wimbledon, 1 USO. I would have to move him ahead of Lendl, into the #9 spot, and Rafa will be in shooting distance of Borg at #8 as well as Budge at #7 depending on how the rest of his 2012 goes.

A lot of history on the line this Sunday.

A big match indeed. It is more important for Nadal though. Most people expect him to grind Nole down after his marathon with Murray. Losing to a tired Djoker again might truly push him to the edge.
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:42 PM   #490
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Should Nadal win, the mental battle with him and Djokovic will be completely turned on its ear. Nadal will have confidence to the moon, and MTF will predict the calendar year Golden grand slam (for whoever wins). In terms of all time GOATness, if Nadal wins, he'll get his 11th slam. 2 AO, 6 RG, 2 Wimbledon, 1 USO. I would have to move him ahead of Lendl, into the #9 spot, and Rafa will be in shooting distance of Borg at #8 as well as Budge at #7 depending on how the rest of his 2012 goes.

A lot of history on the line this Sunday.
In my eyes, there is much more on the line for Rafa. This is important and crucial junction in Rafa's career. If he can overcome Djokovic on Sunday, he will be back in the hunt of chasing Roger's 16 GS and recapture some of the talk of being a GOAT. Not to mention recover mental disadvantage with regards to Nole, and this might mean returning to the previous status quo of Nadal beating Djokovic in all of the important matches. If he loses, he'll probably be owned by Djokovic for the rest of his career. Also, the discussion that Rafa could become a GOAT will quickly disappear.
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Old 01-27-2012, 05:52 PM   #491
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

Agreed if nadull loses on Sunday his GOAT
Aspirations take a major hit.
He will be owned by his contemporary in Nadulls
Prime.
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Old 01-27-2012, 06:25 PM   #492
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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A big match indeed. It is more important for Nadal though. Most people expect him to grind Nole down after his marathon with Murray. Losing to a tired Djoker again might truly push him to the edge.
AO 09 all over again? Will Rafa cry at the trophy ceremony like Roger did then? Losing a match vs. a tired Djokovic (Nadal) who played a long 5 setter with Murray (Verdasco) on Friday while Rafa (Fed) was able to rest having played his SF on Thursday.

Though Roger did recover well after losing AO 09 to bounce back and win 3 more slams since. Maybe all is not lost for Rafa, even if he loses Sunday.

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In my eyes, there is much more on the line for Rafa. This is important and crucial junction in Rafa's career. If he can overcome Djokovic on Sunday, he will be back in the hunt of chasing Roger's 16 GS and recapture some of the talk of being a GOAT. Not to mention recover mental disadvantage with regards to Nole, and this might mean returning to the previous status quo of Nadal beating Djokovic in all of the important matches. If he loses, he'll probably be owned by Djokovic for the rest of his career. Also, the discussion that Rafa could become a GOAT will quickly disappear.
I would agree with this. If Djokovic loses, the excuses are already there. And Nole is young, he has plenty of time. Rafa, though only 1 year older, has much more mileage on his legs. But if Rafa loses, the same arguments that made Rafa a GOAT candidate vs. Fed will be the same argument made by Djokovic fans as a GOAT candidate vs. Rafa.

Funny how things change, eh?

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Agreed if nadull loses on Sunday his GOAT
Aspirations take a major hit.
He will be owned by his contemporary in Nadulls
Prime.
Basically, save for the stupid nickname.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:33 PM   #493
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

With this win, Djokovic has now snatched his 5th slam title, moving him up to #26 all time, just behind the trio of Wilander, Edberg, and Becker.

Interestingly, Djokovic already has more weeks at #1 (30) than Becker (12) and Wilander (20). Djokovic's 5 slams is just short of Edberg or Becker's 6 and Wilander's 7.

Djokovic has 29 career titles, compared to Wiladner's 33, and Becker and Edberg's 40+.

So as of right now, today, Djokovic is #26 all time, just behind those 3.

A Roland Garros victory for Djokovic and the subsequent Nole Slam, especially if he beats Nadal, will move him up to #17 all time, maybe even higher.

How crazy it is that these last 3 slams have gone to Nole. What if Rafa has won just 2 of them? He'd be sitting at 12, knockin' on Sampras' door. Instead, Rafa stays at 10 slams, and Djokovic is rising and rising fast.
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:09 PM   #494
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time (Djokovic up to #26)

I am curious to see how close players like Santana, Roddick, Murray, Chang, Muster and Stich are to the top 55, are you thinking about extending your list sometime in the future?

Also, will a RG victory make Nadal pass Lendl on your list?
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:57 PM   #495
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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This is the truth, neither pro-slams or amateur slams should count as slams, pro-slams as maybe 2/3 slams and amateur slams 1/3 of a slam, or you give 1/2 for each but you cant count both as full slams, it is ridiculous to have players at the same time competing in 2 different tours and both count as on par with this generation on difficulty level.
Pro slams should count as a Slam. To win his pro slams, Rosewall had to beat: Laver, Hoad, Gonzalez, Sedgman, Trabert, Gimeno, Segura. Also Cooper, Olmedo and Anderson and other top amateurs after they turned pro. The fields may not have been as large, but after the first round, the competition was very tough. Amateur slams should count as amateur slams. Overall, Rosewall has 23 Slams, take away his 4 Amateur slams he then has 19. He won his slams on Clay, wood, Carpet and Grass. Conditions were tougher as there were no medical times out or tie breaks. He, and the other Pros also played doubles.
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