Johnny Groove's Top 69 Players Ever (Djokovic #21 of all time) - Page 32 - MensTennisForums.com

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View Poll Results: How accurate was I?

5/5- Almost 100% spot on, Mr. Groove. I may switch a few around here or there, but good work 62 18.02%
4/5- More or less. I disagree with a few, but not bad at all 146 42.44%
3/5- Hmmmm, I dunno. Some look a bit dicey, mate 49 14.24%
2/5- Are you nuts? Why is X player in Y position? You are completely dissing Z player! 19 5.52%
1/5- Are you high and or drunk? WTF?!?!?! 68 19.77%
Voters: 344. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-06-2012, 02:20 AM   #466
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
Tsonga would win 5 Calendar Grand Slams in a row in that pathetic era
This illogical.

Using your flawed logic, future (50 years from now) top 5 player would also win 5 calendar grandslams in a row in todays pathetic era.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:30 AM   #467
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Originally Posted by atennisfan View Post
This illogical.

Using your flawed logic, future (50 years from now) top 5 player would also win 5 calendar grandslams in a row in todays pathetic era.
not true.......
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:58 AM   #468
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
not true.......
Exactly, so stop posting bro. Quit while you're at it.
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:56 AM   #469
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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If you would examine the training regimens of the great players of the 1950's and 1960's, you would find that most of them were in superior shape to today's players. They learned to do rigourous weight-lifting schedules, five-mile runs, track sprints, much of which was introduced by Harry Hopman, Hoad's back broke down by doing pushups with fifty-pound weights on his back.
There was one player who could grab the front legs of a chair while someone was sitting in it, and lift the person up to eye level. (Hoad did this once in a bar to an obnoxious heckler.)
These players did not have tie-breakers, and would play extended five-setters until someone became weary.
On the old pro circuit, with only six or eight of the world's best players, you had to play a tough match every time out. Imagine if the top eight players today spent all year playing no one but each other, and played about two hundred matches each. This would give you some idea of the old pro circuit.

You may be right about their physical aspect as i don't have much idea about the length of the matches and how strenuous training regime of todays players. But you have to consider this that the points were extremely short and more relied on out maneuvering the opponent than over powering the opponent as it is in Today's game.

A typical point would be. A Decent First serve, typically underplayed and not given the almighty thump as it exists today, followed by a Gentle Slice return across the court. The Server would then place the volley to the opposite extreme of the court and if the player could get to the ball he would most likely try to lob it. If the lob succeeeds the point is over and if doesnt it gets smashed across and the Point is over. I have seen much of the videos and most of them have these typical characteristics.

And also why they wanted to underplay the shots i have no clue. Most of the backhands and forehand were invariably slices than a powerfully hit one. Honestly it seems like they had a Code of Playing in which they did not want to hit the strokes powerfully.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:51 AM   #470
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Originally Posted by DLobb View Post
If you would examine the training regimens of the great players of the 1950's and 1960's, you would find that most of them were in superior shape to today's players. They learned to do rigourous weight-lifting schedules, five-mile runs, track sprints, much of which was introduced by Harry Hopman, Hoad's back broke down by doing pushups with fifty-pound weights on his back.
There was one player who could grab the front legs of a chair while someone was sitting in it, and lift the person up to eye level. (Hoad did this once in a bar to an obnoxious heckler.)
These players did not have tie-breakers, and would play extended five-setters until someone became weary.
On the old pro circuit, with only six or eight of the world's best players, you had to play a tough match every time out. Imagine if the top eight players today spent all year playing no one but each other, and played about two hundred matches each. This would give you some idea of the old pro circuit.
Notice how many times they had to towel sweat off their faces back then, look at the films if needed.

Everyone knows what Lendl brought to the game in the 80's, fitness to a new level.
What this means is that he did physical workouts beyond what was done before him in most cases. But today the players are doing a lot more than Lendl and therefore more than what was done before him.

Todays game takes a lot more out of players than any games back in the 50's or 60's, looking at the films will tell all.

Not only are the practice workouts hard now, the game itself is much more intense physically.


Besides all of the above, I like to hear about the players of the past.
I know they made tennis today possible with their dedication and doing the best they knew at the time.
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:59 AM   #471
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Originally Posted by swisht4u View Post
Notice how many times they had to towel sweat off their faces back then, look at the films if needed.

Everyone knows what Lendl brought to the game in the 80's, fitness to a new level.
What this means is that he did physical workouts beyond what was done before him in most cases. But today the players are doing a lot more than Lendl and therefore more than what was done before him.

Todays game takes a lot more out of players than any games back in the 50's or 60's, looking at the films will tell all.

Not only are the practice workouts hard now, the game itself is much more intense physically.


Besides all of the above, I like to hear about the players of the past.
I know they made tennis today possible with their dedication and doing the best they knew at the time.
Good post. The game has changed so much, no point in comparing past eras.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:34 AM   #472
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post
And also why they wanted to underplay the shots i have no clue. Most of the backhands and forehand were invariably slices than a powerfully hit one. Honestly it seems like they had a Code of Playing in which they did not want to hit the strokes powerfully.
Because they were playing with unwieldy wooden racquets with tiny sweet spots. It was extremely difficult to hit powerful groundstrokes with accuracy and only supreme talents such as Hoad & Laver were able to do so with any frequency - & even they used the slice more often than not.

Some good stuff in this thread, along with the usual rubbish.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:00 AM   #473
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post
You may be right about their physical aspect as i don't have much idea about the length of the matches and how strenuous training regime of todays players. But you have to consider this that the points were extremely short and more relied on out maneuvering the opponent than over powering the opponent as it is in Today's game.

A typical point would be. A Decent First serve, typically underplayed and not given the almighty thump as it exists today, followed by a Gentle Slice return across the court. The Server would then place the volley to the opposite extreme of the court and if the player could get to the ball he would most likely try to lob it. If the lob succeeeds the point is over and if doesnt it gets smashed across and the Point is over. I have seen much of the videos and most of them have these typical characteristics.

And also why they wanted to underplay the shots i have no clue. Most of the backhands and forehand were invariably slices than a powerfully hit one. Honestly it seems like they had a Code of Playing in which they did not want to hit the strokes powerfully.
Your post is a great example of seeing something clearly, yet not understanding it at all. You´ve seen footage, but you have no idea what happens on court. You obviously have no idea of concepts such as sweetspot, tactics, technique etc. Why Laver, Rosewall "underplayed" their shots is clearly explained above, players of current era would struggle to hit a simple smash shot with wooden rackets, it really is that difficult, trust me. Do you really think its possible to hit heavy topspin like Nadal does, with wooden raqcuets?
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:09 AM   #474
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
Because they were playing with unwieldy wooden racquets with tiny sweet spots. It was extremely difficult to hit powerful groundstrokes with accuracy and only supreme talents such as Hoad & Laver were able to do so with any frequency - & even they used the slice more often than not.

Some good stuff in this thread, along with the usual rubbish.
It's really not that hard to understand, yet so many fail to get the concept. Hitting a western grip off forehand with a wooden racquet. Vilas and Borg hit lots of topspin but even then they needed other skills.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:12 AM   #475
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Your post is a great example of seeing something clearly, yet not understanding it at all. You´ve seen footage, but you have no idea what happens on court. You obviously have no idea of concepts such as sweetspot, tactics, technique etc. Why Laver, Rosewall "underplayed" their shots is clearly explained above, players of current era would struggle to hit a simple smash shot with wooden rackets, it really is that difficult, trust me. Do you really think its possible to hit heavy topspin like Nadal does, with wooden raqcuets?

Nadal would be a running Midget on those conditions.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:13 AM   #476
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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It's really not that hard to understand, yet so many fail to get the concept. Hitting a western grip off forehand with a wooden racquet. Vilas and Borg hit lots of topspin but even then they needed other skills.
Indeed, such as Borg's net play at Wimbledon. Also the topspin shots they were able to hit were not the kind of topspin shots Federer is able to hit. Their forehands were more Murray-like than Nadal-like.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:20 AM   #477
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Indeed, such as Borg's net play at Wimbledon. Also the topspin shots they were able to hit were not the kind of topspin shots Federer is able to hit. Their forehands were more Murray-like than Nadal-like.
They couldn't hit those shots, the equipment wouldn't allow it, couldn't use the current strings in a wooden racquet. This is why people like Shinoj and saberq are in reality taking up space in here, being guilty of what I said earlier. How do you judge Borg, Laver, Rosewall, Hoad, Newcombe from old clips when just started following tennis recently? Naturally cause there is no connection, lack of research, can't judge them on modern standards yet they keep doing it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:33 AM   #478
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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They couldn't hit those shots, the equipment wouldn't allow it, couldn't use the current strings in a wooden racquet. This is why people like Shinoj and saberq are in reality taking up space in here, being guilty of what I said earlier. How do you judge Borg, Laver, Rosewall, Hoad, Newcombe from old clips when just started following tennis recently? Naturally cause there is no connection, lack of research, can't judge them on modern standards yet they keep doing it.
I know. It's hard to understand how people can be so unwilling to engage their brains.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:52 AM   #479
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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I know. It's hard to understand how people can be so unwilling to engage their brains.
Theres nothing there to engage.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:15 PM   #480
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Lightbulb Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 tennis players of all time

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Originally Posted by Action Jackson View Post
They couldn't hit those shots, the equipment wouldn't allow it, couldn't use the current strings in a wooden racquet. This is why people like Shinoj and saberq are in reality taking up space in here, being guilty of what I said earlier. How do you judge Borg, Laver, Rosewall, Hoad, Newcombe from old clips when just started following tennis recently? Naturally cause there is no connection, lack of research, can't judge them on modern standards yet they keep doing it.
Don't forget, Rosewall and Gonzales also judged current with older players, basing their judgments on athletic ability, range of strokes (Sir Norman Brookes claimed that Tilden and Hoad possessed the greatest range of strokes, although he did not live to see McEnroe), and tactical ability.
Rosewall made his list in 2010 (putting them 1)Hoad 2)Gonzales 3)laver 4)Federer), and Gonzales list in 1995 rated them 1)Hoad 2)Sampras.
These two guys saw and played against almost everyone before 1980, and saw the modern equipment, and the relatively short playing schedules which players sign on to today. Players in the 1950's and 1960's played many more matches.
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