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View Poll Results: Djokovic or Wilander, who is greater?

Djokovic 106 56.99%
Wilander 80 43.01%
Voters: 186. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-02-2011, 04:16 PM   #1
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Default Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

Ok, this sounds like the most trollish poll ever, true bandwagon style or as a jinxing thread or something. But please let me explain.

I have always valued to find objective ways to really compare greatness of tennis players in different generations, but in the end I have found it quite boring and limiting. I find myself almost arguing for things I dont really belive in because the numbers soeak that way. We have different numbers, this player won 7 grand slams, that player won 2 grand slams and so on or how many years did this and that player end nr1.

In the end this kind of rational arguments ends with real limitations, we end up talking about other things than tennis, we discuss numbers.

What I want with this thread is to ask questions that seem absurd because we are so obsessed with numbers like if Djokovic is a greater tennis player than Wilander?

Some will say this is absurd, other will say wait and see what results he will produce in the future. But if you can see Djokovic's greatness already you should be ready to compare them before the numbers allow you to do this.

I will revisit this thread in some years, it will be kind of interesting to look back at what you will say no matter what kind of results Djokovic will have.

I will begin by saying that I dont really like Djokovic as a tennis player but I cant see how he will be stopped from reaching status as a great, 6 slams minimum and I would say he is a better tennis player than Wilander already, there is more potential in him, more weapons and more athletism. Anyway, I couldnt really see he had this much potential only 6 months ago, so I feel like a bandwaggoner now that I understand he might dominate tennis for a couple of years.

Anyway, this is an experiment but maybe I should have done this when Djokovic was a little bit less "hot".
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Old 06-02-2011, 04:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

I didnt just want to make a thread about predicting numbers aswell, so it got a little bit messed up.

Think, for a moment what makes an athlete great besides numbers?

We know in 100 meters that the number 2 today is actually the 2nd greatest 100 m runner of all time. He hasnt won alot but he is the 2nd fastest 100 m runner of all time.

In other sports all we have is subjective analysis, that can be completely not neutral and just based on how much we like or dislike certain players.

I just wanted to have a thread without objectivity and numbers, only your subjective reasoning. Compare their opponents, compare raquet technology, dont compare numbers.

Comparing numbers just gets you to compare a certain limited truth which is what a player has achieved, I just wanted to go beyond that. Instead of discussing numbers, can we talk about these both players real qualities as tennis players?

Wilander's tennis brain, Djokovic's movement, how would they do against different kind of opponents, how would they do in different eras with different raquet technology?

I heard someone say that all great players would be great in all eras, but this cant possibly be true in my mind. Anyway, I didnt really have an answer how to compare players without numbers but I wanted to hear what you had in mind about the subject.
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Old 06-02-2011, 04:50 PM   #3
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

Wilander 7 slams, including a grass AO. Incomparable at this point.
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Old 06-02-2011, 04:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

they should comment on eurosport together
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Old 06-02-2011, 04:54 PM   #5
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

Interesting thought but the comparison you're asking for is probably impossible here because most posters have likely never seen Wilander play.
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Old 06-02-2011, 04:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

Someone is hell bored.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

obviously wilander
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

Bandwagon is an understatement So are you actually asking/predicting he'll surpass Wilander's achievements because subjective views of greatness game-wise are of dubious point even when generations are closer and more comparable. If so, no. If you're looking mainly for subjective part, I'll only offer that Edberg is the indisputable GOAT
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

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they should comment on eurosport together
I agree. Hope they will comment the RG final together!
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:21 PM   #10
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

You just can't compare player from different generations, but if I must chose then I'll say Djokovic for sure if you ignore their GS titles. Todays tennis is just another sport in comparison with tennis 10, 20 or 30 years ago.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

Wilander is a mystery to me, sometimes I think he achieved alot mostly because he was a bad matchup for Lendl and Connors/Mcenroe/Edberg/Becker all sucked on red clay and the Australian open was valued so little in the 80s. He was taken to 5 sets by 18 year old Agassi on red clay in his best year 1988 and after that year he did absolutely nothing for the rest of his career, he was 24 1988.....

I am sorry to offend Wilander fans, I really cant think of any greater overachiever than Wilander. I sometimes doubt Wilander would even win slams had he been born 10 years later or earlier.

Anyway, I would never take from Wilander what he has achieved and I could be completely wrong about everything. Still these are my honest thoughts about Wilander's tennis.

I still love Wilander as a personality, unlike Djokovic so there is no hate against Wilander from my part.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

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Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post
Wilander is a mystery to me, sometimes I think he achieved alot mostly because he was a bad matchup for Lendl and Connors/Mcenroe/Edberg/Becker all sucked on red clay and the Australian open was valued so little in the 80s. He was taken to 5 sets by 18 year old Agassi on red clay in his best year 1988 and after that year he did absolutely nothing for the rest of his career, he was 24 1988.....

I am sorry to offend Wilander fans, I really cant think of any greater overachiever than Wilander. I dont think Wilander would even win slams had he been born 10 years later or earlier.
If you don't go on with bandwagoning , then you wouldn't make silly comments like the above. He peaked for the Slams, rest of the tour was boring for him. Lendl had a 15-7 H2H in favour, they were evenly matched in Slams so he wasn't a bad match up.

It was cause of the 80s the Aus Open got on track because Lendl, McEnroe, Wilander played it, then the other top ones played it. Since he peaked for Slams, the others during his era Lendl, McEnroe, Becker and Edberg were better day in day out.

He got taken to 5 sets by Slobodan Zivojinovic as well in 88. He won matches through his mental strength, tactical adaptability and not talent. Once he reached the top in 88, he didn't have the Lendl relentlessness to stay here. It's really not hard to fathom, the information is clearly out there.

The game isn't even close to the same then as it now, so stop using this current timeframe to compare with the game in the 80s when it was clearly different.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

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If you don't go on with bandwagoning , then you wouldn't make silly comments like the above. He peaked for the Slams, rest of the tour was boring for him. Lendl had a 15-7 H2H in favour, they were evenly matched in Slams so he wasn't a bad match up.

It was cause of the 80s the Aus Open got on track because Lendl, McEnroe, Wilander played it, then the other top ones played it. Since he peaked for Slams, the others during his era Lendl, McEnroe, Becker and Edberg were better day in day out.

He got taken to 5 sets by Slobodan Zivojinovic as well in 88. He won matches through his mental strength, tactical adaptability and not talent. Once he reached the top in 88, he didn't have the Lendl relentlessness to stay here. It's really not hard to fathom, the information is clearly out there.

The game isn't even close to the same then as it now, so stop using this current timeframe to compare with the game in the 80s when it was clearly different.
You are right, Wilander was not really a bad matchup for Lendl but was mentaly just stronger than Lendl in the right moments in his career, Lendl always was a better tennis player. I think Wilander is the kind of player who really could not have achieved anything more than he did in his era. Yes, he was a tactical genius but this would never be enought in the 90s when power tennis meant you hadnt as much time to think on the court and place the ball where you want to.

Subjective reasoning in tennis is difficult because the game is very different in every era, but that doesnt make it useless to have it as base for a discussion. We can discuss about 16 beeing more than 14 beeing more than 9 all day or we can move away from numbers and talk about tennis in different eras, about the fortune of beeing born in the right time or how certain kind of tennis styles dissappear with the evolution of raquet techonology.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

I dunno about as tennis players... but if Djoko happens to be a TV host at some point of his after-tennis life, then I bet he would be 10000 times better than this constantly ass-licking pseudo-expert Wilander.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:40 PM   #15
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Default Re: Who is the greater tennis player: Djokovic vs Wilander

interesting that Wilander seems to have won 6 slams before he finally reached the #1 ranking! unless I'm looking at something wrong
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