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Old 09-01-2014, 03:09 AM   #1
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Default Digital Piracy

What's your take on music piracy etc?

http://www.theguardian.com/media/med...ping-apps-mp3s

It still hasn't been made illegal to rip music from youtube, spotify etc, I guess this would almost be the modern equivalant of recording songs off the radio onto cassette tape, though technically even if they cracked down on all forms of downloading, truth be known people could always just use comptuer software to record songs from internet radio, youtube, or spotify from their PC speakers, and it would be impossible to track it.

What do you think, should the RIAA and MPAA just give up the lost fight?

Is downloading a movie and watching it really any different from taping a movie on VHS like we all used to do as kids?

I don't remember all this hullabaloo when we used to do that, nor record songs off the radio onto cassette. But I guess the key distinction is we could not CHOOSE which song to play, though with youtube and spotify now that one only distinction is gone.

I don't accept that downloading a song, for ME personally, would be stealing, because I know I would not have purchased them, I would just download for my convenience, in this day and age where you can go and listen to any song, whenever you want, on youtube, why would I pay for music? The distinction here is it's more like cutting a key, the original is left untouched. Obviously I couldn't use that excuse for stealing, say a Porshe, because i'm depriving someone of their hard earned car. Or anyone else in the future for that car. But with the music it's different, nothing physical has been stolen, nor earnings deprived as I would never have payed for it. I have however gone to several concerts that I never would have gone to if I hadn't been able to download the bands music and learn how great they were. You can never hear a bands back catalouge just listening to the conventional radio.

I can't speak for other people and to whether they would buy the music if they couldn't download it, but I know in my own mind I wouldn't spend money on music while there is another choice to have it for free.
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:46 AM   #2
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

I couldn't care less about RIAA, digital rights and all the other nonsense. If I see something I like, I download it.
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Old 09-01-2014, 06:42 AM   #3
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

I seriously do not get these people that say i'm not paying for the music and movies and games when I download them..I paid for my computer..I pay for the power that runs the computer, and I pay for my monthly internet connection and data
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Old 09-01-2014, 08:39 AM   #4
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

Piracy is not stealing!

Piracy is distribution of what is legally yours to steal an original item, that is illegal and should be. The item is no longer there. But when you've something that you bought, why should you not be allowed to copy and distribute it amongst others? If someone didn't buy the original file that they were sharing with others via piracy, then that would be stealing obviously. But they buy something and share it. Why can they not share what's theirs? Because the developer won't make as much money? Do what you want with what's yours.

1) Stealing is taking something away from someone, "piracy" is simply making a copy.
2) When in human history has more restricted, less-free arts. Ideas and information ever been a good thing?
3) Digital piracy laws only protect rich greedy shareholders at the top of wealthy companies, who reap share dividends without having to do any labour themselves.
4) People with a conscience (i.E. The vast majority) will pay for something that they see as a good product anyway.
5) Many things would not have gained their wide audience without piracy (a great deal of anime and manga is an example of this)
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Old 09-01-2014, 08:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenez View Post
Piracy is not stealing!

Piracy is distribution of what is legally yours to steal an original item, that is illegal and should be. The item is no longer there. But when you've something that you bought, why should you not be allowed to copy and distribute it amongst others? If someone didn't buy the original file that they were sharing with others via piracy, then that would be stealing obviously. But they buy something and share it. Why can they not share what's theirs? Because the developer won't make as much money? Do what you want with what's yours.

1) Stealing is taking something away from someone, "piracy" is simply making a copy.
2) When in human history has more restricted, less-free arts. Ideas and information ever been a good thing?
3) Digital piracy laws only protect rich greedy shareholders at the top of wealthy companies, who reap share dividends without having to do any labour themselves.
4) People with a conscience (i.E. The vast majority) will pay for something that they see as a good product anyway.
5) Many things would not have gained their wide audience without piracy (a great deal of anime and manga is an example of this)
You're making some sense, but the biggest issue is torrents. In the case of torrents, people download an item, regardless of who's sharing it. Most seeds will be people that have downloaded the item themselves, so in a word, they have not bought the item, and are still sharing it. By your definition, this is piracy. The original uploader is already long gone. His item has already spread among thousands of users, most of which downloading the item from someone else who downloaded from someone else who downloaded from someone else who downloaded, etc.

I agree though, most of what piracy does is increase popularity. Think Game of Thrones, the most pirated TV series in history. The popularity is grand because of this, the producers are making more $$$$$$$$$$$.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:22 AM   #6
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

Digital piracy is one of the most relevant events in the history of our civilization. It has provided additional education to the millions (billions?) of people who can't afford it and a society with more knowledge is a better society. Piracy has brought an unprecedented level of quality of life to a large portion of the population and has effectively lessened the impact of economic crisis in our way of life.

It has also offered some level of protection against the capitalistic propaganda and has planted the seeds for the real revolution which is the sharing of physical goods on a global scale (e.g. 3D printer).
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Old 09-01-2014, 02:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
I couldn't care less about RIAA, digital rights and all the other nonsense. If I see something I like, I download it.


Same for me, I'm always downloading everything, specially movies and series.
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Old 09-01-2014, 10:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
You're making some sense, but the biggest issue is torrents. In the case of torrents, people download an item, regardless of who's sharing it. Most seeds will be people that have downloaded the item themselves, so in a word, they have not bought the item, and are still sharing it. By your definition, this is piracy. The original uploader is already long gone. His item has already spread among thousands of users, most of which downloading the item from someone else who downloaded from someone else who downloaded from someone else who downloaded, etc.

I agree though, most of what piracy does is increase popularity. Think Game of Thrones, the most pirated TV series in history. The popularity is grand because of this, the producers are making more $$$$$$$$$$$.
Copyright is a man-made concept and not one of what is considered the natural or higher laws. Humans can try to impose limitations on copy but the Streisand Effect will always prove more powerful.
Copyright is a relatively new concept and one that puts virtual restraints around intangible items. These virtual restraints are no more effective than the intangible items are tangible.
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Old 09-07-2014, 11:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevenez View Post
Copyright is a man-made concept and not one of what is considered the natural or higher laws. Humans can try to impose limitations on copy but the Streisand Effect will always prove more powerful.
Copyright is a relatively new concept and one that puts virtual restraints around intangible items. These virtual restraints are no more effective than the intangible items are tangible.
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

The music industry has whined more than any other about how the landscape has changed with the internet. What I find funny is, before the internet changed everything, I'd see CDs at £20 and upwards in shops - which given the value of £20 at the time* was obscene and priced many, many people out of enjoying a variety of music. And for a product with a marginal cost barely more than 0! Now they want to piss and moan about supposed ethical issues... it's pathetic.

*though I think £20+ for a CD even in 2014 would be obscene, to be honest. In the late-90s it was laughable.
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

Digital Piracy - the great equalizer. "God's" wrath on capitalists who suck talent dry to make their own buck and possess it with some legal apparatus as if it belonged to them in the first place, and not the talent. To those who couldn't afford to see or hear the latest flicks or music, the scenario earlier was no different from how it feels to watch a billboard of fashionable jewelry. You want a portion of that world, but you can't afford - yet, it will always be placed in front of your eyes to lure you. How unfair - to be born like that. Now with internet being a leveler in at least the arts (music, movies, literature, paintings) all being available for free to those who cannot afford it), they are pinched on their butts and like it not a bit. Not surprising. But look how flawed and forced the capitalist's own battle in this regard is:
If we trace back the top-grossing movie of all time before the internet boom, it was the Titanic at the very top, followed by Jurassic Park, and The Lion King and a stream of Lucas and Spielberg flicks. After the internet boom, this is what it looks like:

HIGHEST GROSSING FILMS

Code:
Rank 	Title 	Worldwide gross 	Year 	Ref
1 	Avatar 	$2,787,965,087 	2009 	[# 1]
2 	Titanic 	$2,186,772,302 	1997 	[# 2]
3 	The Avengers 	$1,518,594,910 	2012 	[# 3]
4 	Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 2 	$1,341,511,219 	2011 	[# 4]
5 	Frozen film currently playing 	$1,275,772,511 	2013 	[# 5]
6 	Iron Man 3 	$1,215,439,994 	2013 	[# 6]
7 	Transformers: Dark of the Moon 	$1,123,794,079 	2011 	[# 7]
8 	The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King 	$1,119,929,521 	2003 	[# 8]
9 	Skyfall 	$1,108,561,013 	2012 	[# 9]
10 	The Dark Knight Rises 	$1,084,439,099 	2012 	[# 10]
11 	Transformers: Age of Extinction film currently playing 	$1,077,750,740 	2014 	[# 11]
12 	Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest 	$1,066,179,725 	2006 	[# 12]
13 	Toy Story 3 	$1,063,171,911 	2010 	[# 13]
14 	Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides 	$1,045,713,802 	2011 	[# 14]
15 	Jurassic Park 	$1,029,153,882 	1993 	[# 15]
16 	Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace 	$1,027,044,677 	1999 	[# 16]
17 	Alice in Wonderland 	$1,025,467,110 	2010 	[# 17]
18 	The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey 	$1,017,003,568 	2012 	[# 18]
19 	The Dark Knight 	$1,004,558,444 	2008 	[# 19]
20 	The Lion King 	$987,483,777 	1994 	[# 20]
21 	Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone 	$974,755,371 	2001 	[# 21]
22 	Despicable Me 2 	$970,761,885 	2013 	[# 22]
23 	Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End 	$963,420,425 	2007 	[# 23]
24 	Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 1 	$960,283,305 	2010 	[# 24]
25 	The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug 	$958,366,855 	2013 	[# 25]
26 	Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix 	$939,885,929 	2007 	[# 26]
27 	Finding Nemo 	$936,743,261 	2003 	[# 27]
28 	Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince 	$934,416,487 	2009 	[# 28]
29 	The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers 	$926,047,111 	2002 	[# 29]
30 	Shrek 2 	$919,838,758 	2004 	[# 30]
31 	Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire 	$896,911,078 	2005 	[# 31]
32 	Spider-Man 3 	$890,871,626 	2007 	[# 32]
33 	Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs 	$886,686,817 	2009 	[# 33]
34 	Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets 	$878,979,634 	2002 	[# 34]
35 	Ice Age: Continental Drift 	$877,244,782 	2012 	[# 35]
36 	The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring 	$871,530,324 	2001 	[# 36]
37 	The Hunger Games: Catching Fire 	$864,565,663 	2013 	[# 37]
38 	Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith 	$848,754,768 	2005 	[# 38]
39 	Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen 	$836,303,693 	2009 	[# 39]
40 	The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn – Part 2 	$829,685,377 	2012 	[# 40]
41 	Inception 	$825,532,764 	2010 	[# 41]
42 	Spider-Man 	$821,708,551 	2002 	[# 42]
43 	Independence Day 	$817,400,891 	1996 	[# 43]
44 	Shrek the Third 	$798,958,162 	2007 	[# 44]
45 	Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban 	$796,688,549 	2004 	[# 45]
46 	E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial 	$792,910,554 	1982 	[# 46]
47 	Fast & Furious 6 	$788,679,850 	2013 	[# 47]
48 	Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 	$786,636,033 	2008 	[# 48]
49 	Spider-Man 2 	$783,766,341 	2004 	[# 49]
50 	Star Wars 	$775,398,007 	1977 	[# 50]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...grossing_films

- 43/50 flicks on this top grossing list above were produced after the millennium. Only 7 films from pre-millennia years qualified here. How long since man' makin' movies is anyone's guess.

- 31/43 flicks produced after millennium were actually produced after 2005 when online file sharing had already become fashionable.
(Not to mention the consistency of the massive numbers themselves, which was not the case before the millennium. True "blockbusters" came far and few in between which is why Spielberg was spoken of with such awe. With the exception of Jurassic Park on the list, everything else from his oeuvre has been trampled over.)

Certainly, not every movie on the list is accounted by "inflation"? In fact, wikipedia has an inflation-adjusted list too on the same page, so you can compare.

The point I'm getting at is, for all the speech on ethics, producers are making more moolah on substandard stuff than they ever did before - why, because instead of catering to an audience purely within the confines of their own local markets, they now cater to the world at the same time. Another reason, people who didn't watch movies as much before are now able to afford and so watch it, as a result of which many of movie non-enthusiasts in fact go to theaters to catch the latest flick of their "favorite" director when in fact they got familiar with his work through "stolen" shared material on the net.

Now one of the most interesting and fascinating developments from this neo-ecology of the net is hybrid cultural development. I might sit and my own country but I am curious about the music and cinema of other countries, and now that I have a choice to "steal" through the net, I find myself looking for their better stuff than what tops the box office. And again, I can say this for several other people too. Nowadays for every ten who download the latest blockbuster, there's 1 who's looking beyond, digging for artistic gold. For example, we have youngsters looking for Ingmar Bergman films on the net. I wouldn't have bothered about knowing the works of Danish and Polish indie filmmakers, or some of the rare gems from Studio Ghibli if I wouldn't have seen their stuff for "free". Truth is I wouldn't be able to afford it, and I'm very late to this file sharing business (I started watching movies via net only in 2012). Point is if I wouldn't have seen their stuff for free, I might not have seen it at all.

Even in music, it is more or less the same. Gangnam Style getting 2 billion views on youtube also translated into epic album sales (3rd highest that year! High for Korean Pop by any standard). People share, chat, and like to know more, and therefore they buy. The internet gives you the provision to listen more before you invest - this part is something that everyone (industry insiders too) exploit in full. Which means everyone sees stuff that is uploaded by someone who's doing the "primary" illegal work but we are all silent partakers of his/her crime, though we did not initiate it. But who's complaining? When the "mass" from any country cries out for a live show of Psy, are the marketers and event organizers at that point thinking about the "bad" unethical way through which the "mass" in their country got to hear about Psy's work, or do they simply go for the moolah and spare no devices to get him to perform live for that crying "mass". Same for other performers and artists, and the producers backing them. Ruthless cycle (of hypocrisy).

Truth is, internet ethics are at a rudimentary stage, and no clear rule of conduct can be applied till the internet itself "settles" its motions into something classifiable and having a distinct pattern. The process is more or less like discovering some new creature with an entirely different behavior than those evidenced in the past cannot be immediately classified into its genus/species etc.

Rambled on for longer than I intended.
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

I couldn't care less about what they call "piracy", I stream or download for free everything I want and can.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post
Truth is, internet ethics are at a rudimentary stage, and no clear rule of conduct can be applied till the internet itself "settles" its motions into something classifiable and having a distinct pattern. The process is more or less like discovering some new creature with an entirely different behavior than those evidenced in the past cannot be immediately classified into its genus/species etc.

Rambled on for longer than I intended.
While we strive for democracy and freedom, people tend to forget why we will never be free.

Internet should stay free. If we can't experience it in real life. We might as well do in virtual one.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:14 PM   #14
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by redshift36188 View Post
Digital piracy is one of the most relevant events in the history of our civilization. It has provided additional education to the millions (billions?) of people who can't afford it and a society with more knowledge is a better society. Piracy has brought an unprecedented level of quality of life to a large portion of the population and has effectively lessened the impact of economic crisis in our way of life.

It has also offered some level of protection against the capitalistic propaganda and has planted the seeds for the real revolution which is the sharing of physical goods on a global scale (e.g. 3D printer).
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:52 AM   #15
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Default Re: Digital Piracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
I couldn't care less about what they call "piracy", I stream or download for free everything I want and can.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/08/sh...mmons-esquire/

Gene Simmons says you are part of the problem, the entitled middle class who thinks they deserve everything for free.
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