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Old 09-28-2014, 03:00 AM   #1
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Default Catalonian Referendum

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29390774

Quote:
The president of the Spanish region of Catalonia has signed a decree calling for a referendum on independence.

Artur Mas wants Catalonia to hold a Scottish-style vote on 9 November, but does not have the backing of the central government in Madrid.

Spain quickly denounced the move, calling the plan unconstitutional.

Catalonia, which includes Barcelona, is one of Spain's richest and most highly industrialised regions, and also one of the most independent-minded.

On 19 September Catalonian lawmakers voted by a margin of 106 to 28 in favour of authorising the referendum, known locally as a "consultation".

Mr Rajoy and the Spanish government believe any vote would be illegal.

Two hours after Mr Mas signed the decree, Spanish Deputy Prime Minister Soraya Saenz made Madrid's position clear: "This referendum will not be held because it is unconstitutional," she said.

The prime minister is expected to take action at a special cabinet meeting early next week, and is likely to take the dispute to the country's Constitutional Court.

However, Mr Mas says he can use local laws to hold the vote.

The decree was signed at a short ceremony and will serve as a message of intent to Spain's central government, says the BBC's Tom Burridge in Madrid.

The question now will be on how far the Spanish government is prepared to go in order to stop a referendum, our correspondent adds.

Mr Mas has previously insisted that the pro-independence movement will prevail, even if it faces stiff opposition.

"Catalonia wants to speak," he said after signing on Saturday. "Wants to be heard. Wants to vote. Now is the right time and we have the right legal framework to do so."

line
The referendum's two questions
"Do you want Catalonia to be a state?

"If so, do you want Catalonia to be an independent state?"

Source: Catalonia Votes website

line
Economic grievances
Soon after the decree was signed, the Catalan hash tag EstemConvocats9N ("We called it for 9 November") became the highest trending topic on Spanish Twitter.

Until recently, few Catalans had wanted full independence, but Spain's painful economic crisis has seen a surge in support for separation, correspondents say.

There is resentment over the proportion of Catalan taxes used to support poorer regions.

The pro-independence movement in Catalonia believes that the region can go ahead with the independence vote after the decree is signed.

Earlier this month hundreds of thousands of Catalans formed a "V" for "vote" along two of Barcelona's main roads calling for their right to vote.

Juan Arza of the Societat Civil Catalana, a civil society movement which opposes nationalism, told the BBC why he opposed the vote.

"A referendum like this divides the society in two, forces people to choose between two different and two contradictory options, black or white, 'Yes' or 'No'," he said.
Wonder if the Spanish tennis players will answer questions and have opinions on the referendum. Madrid, of course, doesn't want it to happen

I think this one has a better chance to pass than Scotland. Vote November 9th
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Old 09-28-2014, 03:04 AM   #2
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

I have a Catalonian grandfather. I'm supporting it.
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Old 09-28-2014, 03:47 AM   #3
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

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Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29390774



Wonder if the Spanish tennis players will answer questions and have opinions on the referendum. Madrid, of course, doesn't want it to happen

I think this one has a better chance to pass than Scotland. Vote November 9th
Do you support Scottish and/or Catalonian independence? Why?
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Old 09-28-2014, 04:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

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Do you support Scottish and/or Catalonian independence? Why?
I support independence every time it is sought. In the Americas, Africa, Asia, and all of Eastern Europe/former USSR.

In the Scottish and Catalonian cases, there is resentment and disassociation with the "father country" if you will. "They are not us" etc.

The Catalonian referendum, I think, has a much better chance to pass than the Scottish and I actually would be surprised if it did not
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Old 09-28-2014, 04:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

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Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
I support independence every time it is sought. In the Americas, Africa, Asia, and all of Eastern Europe/former USSR.

In the Scottish and Catalonian cases, there is resentment and disassociation with the "father country" if you will. "They are not us" etc.

The Catalonian referendum, I think, has a much better chance to pass than the Scottish and I actually would be surprised if it did not
I'm sure you saw this coming, but I assume then that you supported the Confederate States of America?

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Old 09-28-2014, 05:56 AM   #6
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

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Originally Posted by Moonball Pusher View Post
I'm sure you saw this coming, but I assume then that you supported the Confederate States of America?

At the time, yes, how the North was treating the South, their want for independence was justified.

I don't support the bloody war, no, if I was there at the time as a leader in the South, I'd take a referendum vote like Scotland or Catalonia
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Old 09-28-2014, 06:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29390774



Wonder if the Spanish tennis players will answer questions and have opinions on the referendum. Madrid, of course, doesn't want it to happen

I think this one has a better chance to pass than Scotland. Vote November 9th


Those Speanish people can solve their own problems and us Americans don't need to hear about it.
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

Would Barcelona + Espanyol have to play in a Catalan football league if this referendum went through?
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:57 AM   #9
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

being posted by JG i read "Californian Referedum"

i have no opinion about the Catalonian though. It takes a lot or reading and research to actually form an independent opinion and i have better things to do.
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

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Would Barcelona + Espanyol have to play in a Catalan football league if this referendum went through?
Catalonia Liga would be even worse than La Liga
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:00 AM   #11
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

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Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
At the time, yes, how the North was treating the South, their want for independence was justified.
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:14 AM   #12
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

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At the time, yes, how the North was treating the South, their want for independence was justified.
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Old 09-29-2014, 12:46 AM   #13
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

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It's a true statement. the morals behind some of the souths policies were screwed up but they certainly had plenty of justification to go Independent based on what they wanted and how they were being treated.
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Old 09-29-2014, 01:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

Next up: Chechnyan referendum.
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Old 09-29-2014, 05:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: Catalonian Referendum

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Originally Posted by miura88 View Post
Would Barcelona + Espanyol have to play in a Catalan football league if this referendum went through?
They can join the Scottish league.

Not sure how Messi would cope on a wet Wednesday night in Dundee though.
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