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Old 04-12-2011, 03:00 PM   #1
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Default How good is Federer on clay?

I was just looking at some stats with the Oncourt software and found out that Federer is 112-10 on clay if Nadal is not included since 2004. I was astounded to find out that his stats on hardcourt against the tour minus Nadal was actually worse: 336-46

So his W-L is 91.8% on clay and 88% on hardcourt taking Nadal away from the equation, I thought to myself this may deserve a thread of its own.

I am not interested in going into some discussion about Federer against players from past eras, but is Federer more dominant against the tour today (except Nadal) on clay than he is on hardcourt? How good is Federer's game on clay compared to his hardcourt game?
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

Very good.
Nadal is overhuman in clay and that's why Federer doesn't have 5 RG.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

Misleading look at the players he has played and their style of game. He moves very well on clay and they aren't good enough to exploit his weaknesses consistently apart from Nadal.
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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

Well u can`t compare those stats.Most of the matches in a year are played on a hardcourt so obviously he will have more losses there then on clay where he plays 4-5 tourneys/year.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

He's very good, but his stats are a little misleading due to weak clay court field plus the type of player he matches up badly against is uncommon these days (Nadal, Andreev topspin types)
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

Federer is underrented on clay.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

As good as any of the clay court "specialists" of the 90s, it's simply that Nadal is a monster on clay.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

The 10 players he have lost to since 2004:

2004:
Alberto Costa
Gustavo Kuerten
2005:
Richard Gasquet
2007:
Volandri (IMO, his worst loss ever)
2008:
Stepanek
2009:
Djokovic
Wawrinka
2010:
Montanes
Gulbis
Soderling

If we dont count 2010 when Federer started really going downhill from 2004-2009 Federer was 101-7 against the tour except Nadal, 93.5%
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriraz View Post
Well u can`t compare those stats.Most of the matches in a year are played on a hardcourt so obviously he will have more losses there then on clay where he plays 4-5 tourneys/year.
Agreed.

More bigger events on hardcourt, therefore his average will be lower.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriraz View Post
Well u can`t compare those stats.Most of the matches in a year are played on a hardcourt so obviously he will have more losses there then on clay where he plays 4-5 tourneys/year.
Yes, but at the same time Federer almost only participates in the 4 big ones on clay where all players are playing. On hardcourt Federer plays smaller tournaments where the other top players dont participate.

Even in Roland Garros Federer is from 2004-2009: 32-1 against the tour except Nadal.

36-2 including Soderling loss 2010.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post
The 10 players he have lost to since 2004:

2004:
Alberto Costa
Gustavo Kuerten
2005:
Richard Gasquet
2007:
Volandri (IMO, his worst loss ever)
2008:
Stepanek
2009:
Djokovic
Wawrinka
2010:
Montanes
Gulbis
Soderling

If we dont count 2010 when Federer started really going downhill from 2004-2009 Federer was 101-7 against the tour except Nadal, 93.5%
Costa and Guga gave him a clay court lesson.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:28 PM   #12
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

weak clay field

strong hard court field

i think the only thing everyone agrees on is that the hard court field this era has been exceptionally strong

murray
del potro
djokovic
roddick
safin
hewitt
nalbandian

could all be multiple GS winners if it wasn't for fedal
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennis-hero View Post
weak clay field

strong hard court field

i think the only thing everyone agrees on is that the hard court field this era has been exceptionally strong

murray
del potro
djokovic
roddick
safin
hewitt
nalbandian

could all be multiple GS winners if it wasn't for fedal
Yes, the clayfield is very weak compared to the hardcourt field. Still it takes a great player on any surface to be +90% against the rest of the field. In 99-02 there was a really bad era on hardcourt and still no one was great enought to dominate with +90% wins. I remember on clay in the early 90s there were many great players, but these were not great enought not to lose against avarage clay players now and then.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:36 PM   #14
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

I mean when Fed is playing great you almost don't have a feeling that you are watching clay court tennis. But this his game , with hitting winners on a third or fourth shot in the exchange, flying movement and trick shots aren't the way on which you will winning huge matches on clay . On clay you have to dig deep , run a lot and make your opponent playing badly . That year when Fed won RG he actually was playing ugly for his standards and digging deep all the time, making his opponents playing worse than him . This was my impression of Fed's clay game
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:37 PM   #15
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Default Re: How good is Federer on clay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post
Yes, the clayfield is very weak compared to the hardcourt field. Still it takes a great player on any surface to be +90% against the rest of the field. In 99-02 there was a really bad era on hardcourt and still no one was great enought to dominate with +90% wins. I remember on clay in the early 90s there were many great players, but these were not great enought not to lose against avarage clay players now and then. Nadal is that great that he simply cant lose to avarage players on clay and Federer seems to be not far from that level aswell.
Nadal is different, but Federer benefits from what has already been stated before in this thread.

The numbers are grossly misleading.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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