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Old 11-30-2011, 07:45 AM   #196
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

If Fed only was owned by his daddy on clay then I would be fine with that.. But the guy has lost slams on ALL SURFACES. to Nadal. Imagine if Pete lost to Andre on all surfaces at the slams, imagine if Borg lost to on all surfaces to Mac at the slams etc. It fucks the legacy up in many ways, as does not winning the french. But fish and fowl. Personally, I wouldn't want to be crapped on on grass, clay, and hard at the slams on the biggest stage by my main rival more
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:59 AM   #197
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetSampras View Post
If Fed only was owned by his daddy on clay then I would be fine with that.. But the guy has lost slams on ALL SURFACES. to Nadal. Imagine if Pete lost to Andre on all surfaces at the slams, imagine if Borg lost to on all surfaces to Mac at the slams etc. It fucks the legacy up in many ways, as does not winning the french. But fish and fowl. Personally, I wouldn't want to be crapped on on grass, clay, and hard at the slams on the biggest stage by my main rival more
It wouldn't matter one bit if their respective slam count and their numbers of weeks at #1 stayed the same. Especially not if Sampras or Borg they did not lose all the meetings, and also lost most of the meetings because they were played on their opponents best surface and their own worst, and on the other surfaces at a time when they were declining.

Cheers.
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:59 AM   #198
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Roger has a positive h2h with Rafa in Wimbledon and only faced him once in GS HC, lost in FIVE sets at the Australian Open, has never faced him at the USO and has a positive h2h against him at the YEC, so where's the crapping? just in clay and that's because (like Sophocles said) only the likes of Borg would have been able to deal with Rafa there.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:01 AM   #199
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkulari View Post
Roger has a positive h2h with Rafa in Wimbledon and only faced him once in GS HC, lost in FIVE sets at the Australian Open, has never faced him at the USO and has a positive h2h against him at the YEC, so where's the crapping? just in clay and that's because (like Sophocles said) only the likes of Borg would have been able to deal with Rafa there.
.... Or Kuerten, or Rosewall, Or maybe Vilas and Wilander, or 95 Muster.. Theres a few guys
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:03 AM   #200
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

I just watched Muger Frauderer blabbering like a baby in that interview a couple of nights ago, sniveling that he had played too many tournaments this year. Robbie Koenig ripped him for that one.! What a no good for nothing yellow bellied crybaby that always makes excuses and NEVER accepts any responsibility!!! I'm sick of hearing of this LOSER cry all of the time and always pull the same crap. He sucks and will never win another Slam as he cannot play without making lame excuses because he knows he is finished. To snivel about playing too many tournaments because he lost every Slam the past 2 years is just too much. Muger is a LOSER and has NO Slam Titles this year and after the AO it will be 2 years of losing. Screw him!

And why would anyone ever want another sickeing phony that plays weak sauce tennis and is nauseating to even look at, yet alone hear his politically correct manipulative interviews. The man personifies everything wrong with the world today. Fedtards are fast becoming Nostalgia-tards as their vainglorious loser mug player continues to sink into a hole of infinite oblivion. This is why Muger needs to retire for his fans. They cannot handle much more of this as feeding and living off hate and jealousy can only lead to a parasitic demise once the Host has nothing left to offer. Frauderer must retire for the sake of his fans!
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:04 AM   #201
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Another ACC star upping the ante

Keep it coming boys, the contest needs you!!!
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:07 AM   #202
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetSampras View Post
.... Or Kuerten, or Rosewall, Or maybe Vilas and Wilander, or 95 Muster.. Theres a few guys
I actually saw Muster playing live at his peak and no, I don't think he would have beaten Rafa often, Guga had great clay game but his one hander would have been pounded mercilessly by Rafa (the match-up issue that Roger has with him), Rosewall? mmm hard to say, Wilander? don't make me laugh, even Courier was better than him on clay and neither one could hold a candle to Rafa.

Vilas might sneak some wins like he did against Borg but I don't think he would have been able to withstand the power of Rafa

There's a reason why Borg and Nadal stay alone at the top of the clay game, no one comes close to them and actually forcing them to tough matches with a match-up disadvantage is a sign of greatness.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:12 AM   #203
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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Blah blah psychotic rant blah that interview a couple of nights ago, blah blah blah more incomprehensible psychotic rant blah
WHAT INTERVIEW?? I wanna watch.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:25 AM   #204
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raferminator View Post
I just watched Muger Frauderer blabbering like a baby in that interview a couple of nights ago, sniveling that he had played too many tournaments this year. Robbie Koenig ripped him for that one.! What a no good for nothing yellow bellied crybaby that always makes excuses and NEVER accepts any responsibility!!! I'm sick of hearing of this LOSER cry all of the time and always pull the same crap. He sucks and will never win another Slam as he cannot play without making lame excuses because he knows he is finished. To snivel about playing too many tournaments because he lost every Slam the past 2 years is just too much. Muger is a LOSER and has NO Slam Titles this year and after the AO it will be 2 years of losing. Screw him!

And why would anyone ever want another sickeing phony that plays weak sauce tennis and is nauseating to even look at, yet alone hear his politically correct manipulative interviews. The man personifies everything wrong with the world today. Fedtards are fast becoming Nostalgia-tards as their vainglorious loser mug player continues to sink into a hole of infinite oblivion. This is why Muger needs to retire for his fans. They cannot handle much more of this as feeding and living off hate and jealousy can only lead to a parasitic demise once the Host has nothing left to offer. Frauderer must retire for the sake of his fans!
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:25 AM   #205
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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Originally Posted by Raferminator View Post
They cannot handle much more of this as feeding and living off hate and jealousy can only lead to a parasitic demise once the Host has nothing left to offer. Frauderer must retire for the sake of his fans!
ROFL: That sounds like a poster called Raferminator
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:42 AM   #206
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
Dude, Federer's years of domination were 2004-7. Last time I checked, Nadal finished 2nd in 3 of those years & had a losing record against Federer off clay, & Djokovic finished 3rd in 2007, the same as he did in the subsequent 3 years. (And before you start, any other great player would have had a losing record on clay against Nadal, including Laver & obviously including Sampras - the only conceivable exceptions being Borg & Rosewall.) Ferrer, at 29 with a roadrunner game, is currently No. 5 in the world in what you consider the era of the big dogs (& has recently thrashed big dog Djokovic); Davydenko, before recent injuries, used to own "big dog" Nadal; Agassi is a famous exception among great players for having his best years late in his career; Roddick used to beat up on Sampras & has won as many US Opens as either Djoker or Nadal; & you don't mention Safin, who thrashed Sampras in a slam final & was hardly lacking in talent, or Hewitt, who also thrashed Sampras in a slam final, or Nalbandian, whose talent you yourself have praised, or, I dunno, Moya, who was one of the mighty threats Sampras faced in a slam final. Sampras's years of (lesser) domination were 1993-7, & in that period his biggest competition was Agassi (awol except for late 1994 and 1995), old Becker (who won 1 slam in the period), Courier (who was fucked by 1995), choking Ivanisevic, & erm baby Moya? and a few clay-court specialists he couldn't beat on clay. The end of his domination coincided with the rise of "big dogs" such as Rafter & Rios.
I had posted this on a different message board awhile back under a different username but wanted to bring it out and update it. This myth that Sampras had to face tougher competition is simply a myth.

During Sampras' prime from '93-'98 when he won 10 of his majors, Sampras never beat Edberg, Stich, Krajicek, Rafter, Rios, Kuerten, Moya, Kafelnikov, Philippoussis, Bruguera in a Slam when they were ranked in the top 10. He was 0-5 against these players when they were in the top 10 and was fortunate enough never to have faced many of them when they were. So Sampras' competition is always inflated when people talk about all the tough players he had to beat to win his Slams.

Which top 10 players did Sampras beat from "93-'98 in those 6 years when he was no.1 and who did Federer beat?

US Open - Sampras:
'93 - Chang (7); '94 - noone- lost to Yzaga (23) in the 4th; '95 - Agassi (1); '96 - Ivanisevic (6), Chang (3); '97 - noone - lost to Korda (16) in the 4th ; '98 - Kucera (9), lost to Rafter (3) in semis

So basically, he beat prime Agassi for which he deserves tremendous credit, Chang twice, Ivanisevic who had a poor record on hard courts, Kucera, and lost to Yzaga, Korda, Rafter.

Us Open - Federer:

'03 - noone - lost to Nalbandian (13) in the 4th, '04- Agassi (7), Henman (6), Hewitt (5); '05 - Hewitt (4); Agassi (7); '06 - Blake (7), Davydenko (6), Roddick (10); '07 - Roddick (5), Davydenko (4), Djokovic (3); '08 - Djokovic, Murray .

He beat Djokovic twice, Hewitt twice, Roddick twice, Agassi twice, Davydenko twice; Murray; Blake and Henman.

Conc: I realize Sampras' win over prime Agassi in '95 was probably the toughest matchup, but overall, I would say that Federer has beaten more quality opponents and suffered fewer questionable defeats.


Australian Open - Sampras:

'93 - noone - lost to Edberg (2) in semis ; '94 - Courier (3), '95 - Chang (6), lost to Agassi (2) in final ; '96 - noone - lost to Philippoussis (40) in the 3rd round; '97 - Muster (5); '98 - noone lost to Kucera (20) in the quarters.

Basically, he has wins over Courier, Chang and Muster.

Australian Open - Federer

'03 - noone - lost to Nalbandian (12) in the 4th; '04 - Nalbandian (8) ; Ferrero (3) (pre-chicken pox); '05 - Agassi (8); lost to Safin (4) in the semis; '06 - Davydenko (5); '07 - Robredo (6); Roddick (7); Gonzalez (9); '08 noone lost to Djokovic

Federer has wins over Agassi, Roddick, Ferrero, Nalbandian, Davydenko, Gonzalez and Robredo with fewer bad losses. (Federer also beat Safin in the finals in 2004, but, unfortunately Safin's ranking had slipped because he was injured the year before - it's still probably a scalp better than any of Sampras' wins at the Aussie)

Conc: Federer has beaten tougher competition at the Aussie


French Open- Sampras
'93- noone- lost to Bruguera (11) in Quarters; '94 - noone - lost to Courier (7) in Quarters; '95 - noone - lost to Schaller (24) in 1st round; '96 - Courier (8); lost to Kafelnikov (7) in semis; '97- noone- lost to Norman (65) in 3rd round; '98 - noone - lost to Delgado (97) in 2nd round

He has one victory over Courier and lots of bad losses

French Open - Federer

'03- noone - lost to Horna (88) in 1st round, '04 - noone - lost to Kuerten (30) in 3rd round; '05-noone - lost to Nadal (5) in semis; '06 - Nalbandian (3); lost to Nadal (2) in final; '07- Robredo (9); Davydenko (4) -lost to Nadal (2) in final; '08 noone - lost to Nadal in the final

Federer beat Nalbandian, Robredo, and Davydenko, made it to the finals three times and had fewer bad losses.

Conc: If not for Nadal, Federer would have been a dominant multiple clay-court champion and clearly outperformed Sampras at Roland Garros


Wimbledon- Sampras

'93- Becker (4), Courier (2); '94- Chang (8), Martin (9), Ivanisevic (5); '95 - Ivanisevic(6), Becker (4), "96 - noone - lost to Krajicek in the quarters; '97 - noone; '98- noone

He beat Ivanisevic twice, Becker twice, Courier; Chang and Martin

Wimbledon- Federer
'03- Roddick (6); '04- Hewitt (10); Roddick (2); '05- Hewitt (2), Roddick (4); '06- Ancic (10), Nadal (2); '07- Haas (10) in a walkover; Nadal (2); '08 noone - lost to Nadal

He beat Roddick 3 times, Nadal twice, Hewitt twice; Ancic

Conc: I think Ancic was as good as Martin on grass and Hewitt was better than Courier and Chang. Roddick is on par with Ivanisevic. The evaluation depends on whether we think pre-prime on grass Nadal is as worthy competition as the older Becker that Sampras faced. While Nadal does not have a typical dominant grass game, it's hard to argue with results. Ignoring 2009 since he withdrew, Nadal won twice and made 3 finals between 2006-2011. It's hard for me to say that the old Becker was playing at a higher level than Nadal knowing Nadal's success that follows after 2007.


Overall:
I don't see any substantive evidence to suggest that Sampras beat tougher opponents to win his Slams. On the contrary, I think a strong case can be made that Federer has in fact beaten tougher opponents.

Furthermore, if you don't just look at his wins but look at their losses, you will see that Federer has virtually no bad losses. Starting from Wimbledon '93, Federer only lost to Nalbandian (13) at the US, Guga (30) and Nadal (5, 2, 2, 2) at Roland Garros, Safin (4) and Djokovic (3) at the Australian and Nadal (2) at Wimbledon. Starting from Wimbledon '93, Sampras lost to Yzaga (23) , Korda (16) and Rafter (3) at the US, Philippoussis (40), Kucera (20), Agassi (2) at the Australian; Courier (7), Schaller (24), Kafelnikov (7); Norman (65) and Delgado (97) at the French and Krajicek (13) at Wimbledon.

Take a long hard look at the data from the 6 years of Sampras' prime and the 6 years of Federer's prime and then tell me who faced tougher competition and who was losing to pigeons.
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Old 11-30-2011, 08:48 AM   #207
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Couldn't good rep you, so: Bravo, fed4ever!
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:26 AM   #208
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raferminator View Post
I just watched Muger Frauderer blabbering like a baby in that interview a couple of nights ago, sniveling that he had played too many tournaments this year. Robbie Koenig ripped him for that one.! What a no good for nothing yellow bellied crybaby that always makes excuses and NEVER accepts any responsibility!!! I'm sick of hearing of this LOSER cry all of the time and always pull the same crap. He sucks and will never win another Slam as he cannot play without making lame excuses because he knows he is finished. To snivel about playing too many tournaments because he lost every Slam the past 2 years is just too much. Muger is a LOSER and has NO Slam Titles this year and after the AO it will be 2 years of losing. Screw him!

And why would anyone ever want another sickeing phony that plays weak sauce tennis and is nauseating to even look at, yet alone hear his politically correct manipulative interviews. The man personifies everything wrong with the world today. Fedtards are fast becoming Nostalgia-tards as their vainglorious loser mug player continues to sink into a hole of infinite oblivion. This is why Muger needs to retire for his fans. They cannot handle much more of this as feeding and living off hate and jealousy can only lead to a parasitic demise once the Host has nothing left to offer. Frauderer must retire for the sake of his fans!
how somebody could be so dumb to not to see that with posting one post for 200 times you look .

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Old 11-30-2011, 09:34 AM   #209
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fed4ever View Post
I had posted this on a different message board awhile back under a different username but wanted to bring it out and update it. This myth that Sampras had to face tougher competition is simply a myth.

During Sampras' prime from '93-'98 when he won 10 of his majors, Sampras never beat Edberg, Stich, Krajicek, Rafter, Rios, Kuerten, Moya, Kafelnikov, Philippoussis, Bruguera in a Slam when they were ranked in the top 10. He was 0-5 against these players when they were in the top 10 and was fortunate enough never to have faced many of them when they were. So Sampras' competition is always inflated when people talk about all the tough players he had to beat to win his Slams.

Which top 10 players did Sampras beat from "93-'98 in those 6 years when he was no.1 and who did Federer beat?

US Open - Sampras:
'93 - Chang (7); '94 - noone- lost to Yzaga (23) in the 4th; '95 - Agassi (1); '96 - Ivanisevic (6), Chang (3); '97 - noone - lost to Korda (16) in the 4th ; '98 - Kucera (9), lost to Rafter (3) in semis

So basically, he beat prime Agassi for which he deserves tremendous credit, Chang twice, Ivanisevic who had a poor record on hard courts, Kucera, and lost to Yzaga, Korda, Rafter.

Us Open - Federer:

'03 - noone - lost to Nalbandian (13) in the 4th, '04- Agassi (7), Henman (6), Hewitt (5); '05 - Hewitt (4); Agassi (7); '06 - Blake (7), Davydenko (6), Roddick (10); '07 - Roddick (5), Davydenko (4), Djokovic (3); '08 - Djokovic, Murray .

He beat Djokovic twice, Hewitt twice, Roddick twice, Agassi twice, Davydenko twice; Murray; Blake and Henman.

Conc: I realize Sampras' win over prime Agassi in '95 was probably the toughest matchup, but overall, I would say that Federer has beaten more quality opponents and suffered fewer questionable defeats.


Australian Open - Sampras:

'93 - noone - lost to Edberg (2) in semis ; '94 - Courier (3), '95 - Chang (6), lost to Agassi (2) in final ; '96 - noone - lost to Philippoussis (40) in the 3rd round; '97 - Muster (5); '98 - noone lost to Kucera (20) in the quarters.

Basically, he has wins over Courier, Chang and Muster.

Australian Open - Federer

'03 - noone - lost to Nalbandian (12) in the 4th; '04 - Nalbandian (8) ; Ferrero (3) (pre-chicken pox); '05 - Agassi (8); lost to Safin (4) in the semis; '06 - Davydenko (5); '07 - Robredo (6); Roddick (7); Gonzalez (9); '08 noone lost to Djokovic

Federer has wins over Agassi, Roddick, Ferrero, Nalbandian, Davydenko, Gonzalez and Robredo with fewer bad losses. (Federer also beat Safin in the finals in 2004, but, unfortunately Safin's ranking had slipped because he was injured the year before - it's still probably a scalp better than any of Sampras' wins at the Aussie)

Conc: Federer has beaten tougher competition at the Aussie


French Open- Sampras
'93- noone- lost to Bruguera (11) in Quarters; '94 - noone - lost to Courier (7) in Quarters; '95 - noone - lost to Schaller (24) in 1st round; '96 - Courier (8); lost to Kafelnikov (7) in semis; '97- noone- lost to Norman (65) in 3rd round; '98 - noone - lost to Delgado (97) in 2nd round

He has one victory over Courier and lots of bad losses

French Open - Federer

'03- noone - lost to Horna (88) in 1st round, '04 - noone - lost to Kuerten (30) in 3rd round; '05-noone - lost to Nadal (5) in semis; '06 - Nalbandian (3); lost to Nadal (2) in final; '07- Robredo (9); Davydenko (4) -lost to Nadal (2) in final; '08 noone - lost to Nadal in the final

Federer beat Nalbandian, Robredo, and Davydenko, made it to the finals three times and had fewer bad losses.

Conc: If not for Nadal, Federer would have been a dominant multiple clay-court champion and clearly outperformed Sampras at Roland Garros


Wimbledon- Sampras

'93- Becker (4), Courier (2); '94- Chang (8), Martin (9), Ivanisevic (5); '95 - Ivanisevic(6), Becker (4), "96 - noone - lost to Krajicek in the quarters; '97 - noone; '98- noone

He beat Ivanisevic twice, Becker twice, Courier; Chang and Martin

Wimbledon- Federer
'03- Roddick (6); '04- Hewitt (10); Roddick (2); '05- Hewitt (2), Roddick (4); '06- Ancic (10), Nadal (2); '07- Haas (10) in a walkover; Nadal (2); '08 noone - lost to Nadal

He beat Roddick 3 times, Nadal twice, Hewitt twice; Ancic

Conc: I think Ancic was as good as Martin on grass and Hewitt was better than Courier and Chang. Roddick is on par with Ivanisevic. The evaluation depends on whether we think pre-prime on grass Nadal is as worthy competition as the older Becker that Sampras faced. While Nadal does not have a typical dominant grass game, it's hard to argue with results. Ignoring 2009 since he withdrew, Nadal won twice and made 3 finals between 2006-2011. It's hard for me to say that the old Becker was playing at a higher level than Nadal knowing Nadal's success that follows after 2007.


Overall:
I don't see any substantive evidence to suggest that Sampras beat tougher opponents to win his Slams. On the contrary, I think a strong case can be made that Federer has in fact beaten tougher opponents.

Furthermore, if you don't just look at his wins but look at their losses, you will see that Federer has virtually no bad losses. Starting from Wimbledon '93, Federer only lost to Nalbandian (13) at the US, Guga (30) and Nadal (5, 2, 2, 2) at Roland Garros, Safin (4) and Djokovic (3) at the Australian and Nadal (2) at Wimbledon. Starting from Wimbledon '93, Sampras lost to Yzaga (23) , Korda (16) and Rafter (3) at the US, Philippoussis (40), Kucera (20), Agassi (2) at the Australian; Courier (7), Schaller (24), Kafelnikov (7); Norman (65) and Delgado (97) at the French and Krajicek (13) at Wimbledon.

Take a long hard look at the data from the 6 years of Sampras' prime and the 6 years of Federer's prime and then tell me who faced tougher competition and who was losing to pigeons.

wow, interesting stats. nice.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:05 AM   #210
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Default Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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