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Old 11-09-2012, 04:00 PM   #61
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

I don't think he couldn't win a slam in 2009/2010 mainly because of his WTA serve. There is also other important factors like not being fit and not having the belief to be the best in the world. Novak after Madrid 2009 SF seems like he accepted the fact that he is just the n.3 player and will never be better than the other 2.

The turning point was that SF with Fed in USO 2010. After that match the belief is back and then he worked as hard as he can in the off season in order to improve his game and be the best.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:01 PM   #62
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
Are you an idiot? Look at Federer's results and show me the huge affect it had?

Compare Federer's "mono" to Soderling's.
Except Fed isn't exactly the same player as Soderling, is he?

Anyway back on topic: Martin has nothing to do with djokovic's immaturity. So nothing would have changed.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:07 PM   #63
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

I don't think Nole is a big underachiever. He underachieved a bit but the real big underachievers are the likes of Nalbandian.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:28 PM   #64
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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great logic man did he have mono last year too?
I dont think so

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Australian Open: Did you by any chance happen to catch the previous year's U.S. Open final? Djokovic was obviously tennis's next big thing. Unless you think Djokovic was never going to beat Fed in a slam or something
.
prior to the AO match Djokovic had only won ONE tight match against Federer, in which he won less games in total. All in all he had won 4 sets (3 on TB) in 6 encounters.

Federer finished 2007 strongly with wins in USO, Basel and TMC

Suddenly Djokovic wins 3-0 in a match in which Federer never had a chance, in a tournament in which he almost lost to Tipsarevic lol. After that he loses to Fish lol and Roddick superlol.
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That will be the last victory of Rafa for quite some time.. With his joke mentality and pathetic game, I hope the disgusting player loses every single match next season. He's disgraceful. He should just retire. He's a joke.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:28 PM   #65
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

He had no self believe when facing the big 2 at that time,also his fitness was questionable,allergy problems,and not to mention his serve,so not sure he would've won a slam
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:28 PM   #66
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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Would've needed to get it done in 09, because in 2010 there was no stopping Nadal. Maybe he could've grabbed the AO 2010, but Federer was pretty good there as well.

Think the only slam he properly fucked up, was the USO 2012
LOL please. Nadal was the same level and Djokovic tore him apart all across 2011, across every surface. Nadal 2010 was no Nadal 2008, but Djokovic simply wasn't at his 2011-2012 level or confidence at the time to stop him. For a significant portion of 2010, Nadal was the only one of the top players remotely decently.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:43 PM   #67
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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LOL please. Nadal was the same level and Djokovic tore him apart all across 2011, across every surface. Nadal 2010 was no Nadal 2008, but Djokovic simply wasn't at his 2011-2012 level or confidence at the time to stop him. For a significant portion of 2010, Nadal was the only one of the top players remotely decently.
Indeed. Nadal wasn't at his best at RG and Wimbledon nowhere near. Yeah he had the serve and the iron will to get the US Open done, but RG and Wimbledon he didn't really need to play great to win them. Only Soderling at RG stood out as the Nadal of 08.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:53 PM   #68
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

We'll never know but the fact that he never got his serve back forced him to improve the other parts of his game so it also had positive effects in a way.

PS :
Real mono = Ancic, Soderling
Fake mono = ( )*

*fill the blank
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:01 PM   #69
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

IF i am correct Martin was his co-couch since august 2009 until april 2010 so which slams are we talking about ? Actually 2009 was great season, he just didn´t make slam F, USO loss to Roger was expected , than 2010 was bad, serving like WTA and low confidence - o.k Australia - he retired vs Tsonga, back than he was ,,old,, physically weak Djokovic, no way he would have beaten both Roger and Andy in F.. RG - o.k that loss to Melzer pathetic but Nadal would spank him

Wimby 2010 - grass is still his worst surface no way he would defeated Nadal in Wimby F - with the confidence he had, even Berdych in form would be maybe to good vs more confident Nole

Than USO 2010 was o.k he just los to Nadal didn´t have the self-believe back than vs him

So which slams are we talking about?

The problem with Martin was serve wise - he was trying to improove his serve, but he failed he totally destroyed his timing or whatever and his serve was pathetic - than with this and making more DF´s than Verdasco lead to huge confidence letdown - also it all started in 2009 in Madrid vs Nadal with that super long 3 setter and MP´s wasted. His 2009 wasn´t that bad he just wasn´t confident enough to face Roger or Rafa in slams - than 2010 including few montshs with Martin meant that he was serving like crap - so his confidence not only vs Rafa-Nole but also generally speaking vs probably at lowest point in years. Than it all changed in 2010 USO MP vs Roger and Davis cup was just last needed boost for Nole 2.0 - but there are other things like that gluten free diet and his stamina-fitness improovement. Without Martin his serve wouldn´b e so bad but his confidence suffered alredy in 2009 in Madrid, that guy had fantastic clay season, 2nd best player on clay after Nadal, i would bet that with Nadal´s loos to Soderling Novak would have won that RG 2009, but after Madrid he was broken- he lost 3 clay matches vs Nadal that clay season. So even with better serve and not so low confident - no way he wins Wimbledon, no way he wins RG 2010, in Australia - ,,old,, Nole physically weak - can´t stand up the heat and sickness whatever - maybe USO 2010 would be better somehow, but he already was playing great and had the self-believe after Roger´s match.

Last edited by romismak : 11-09-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:02 PM   #70
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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You do realise the MASSIVE gulf in class between the standard you were playing at and the professional ATP tour right?
Oh sorry, they aren't human like me, I didn't play professional so I must be fat and barely know how to hit a tennis ball, I never practiced with pros or anything because actually pros don't come to tennis academies and stuff right..? Don't be a clown. I used to hit the gym and run as much as many pros do.

Edit: But I take it you're a clown reading your posts, so not going to bother trying to convince someone who already has his foolish mind set, but my other point still stands. EVERY sickness is NEVER the same. Are you going to tell me every time you get the flu it is the same severity? I got the flu a couple weeks ago, and I had to be taken into the ER because my temp was 105 and wouldn't go down. Now has that happened everytime I got the flu? I don't think I need to answer that. Mono is no different, you can get a very minor case or something much more severe.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:08 PM   #71
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

Doesn't matter much, really.

Djokovic was not a great server prior to the T. Martin debacle. His best has always been what happens once the point starts, and there's a reason why his return is still much more noteworthy today. The bigger problem was, perhaps, confidence, but there were other contributing factors to that including pretty much every loss he suffered in '08 after dominating the AO and getting a big head.

Besides, without Martin, Djokovic probably wouldn't have what net play he has today. It's all relative.


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That mono shit was a total crap. As wing said, look at Soda, that's what happens if you have mono. You don't play for ages. You do not reach slam finals and semis even if you're Federer, Laver, Sampras or whatever.
OK, House.



Per the mono debate, I'm not saying whether or not Fed had it, as I'm not his doctor. But to conclude that he didn't have it because of other, more severe cases is utterly moronic. It's to ignore possible differences in severity not just in that sickness, but in health conditions in general, and to show complete ignorance of basic biological truths.

Remember Isner and Roddick contracted mono as well, and neither were out of the game to the extent of Ancic or Soderling.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:26 PM   #72
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

He would probably have fewer slams NOW. The learning experience plus the need to go to new-fangled methods and magical non-gluten when he was clearly inferior to Fed and Nadal was what caused the 2011 run. In 2008, despite winning the AO impressively, he was schooled at other Slams, so he was not going to mow through the tour or anything. Then he got greedy and changed his racket, which has rarely been a good idea for a pro at that level. It was only when Roger fucked up that USO SF in 2010 that he acquired a bit of a false aura and the rest followed.

If Federer did not have mono?

If Nadal did not have knee issues?

If Nalbandian had not eaten that cheeseburger in 2005? etc.
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Federer is a tennis god. Big john (Isner) was lucky to be a witness to what was on show today. Tough match vs Seppi next round
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The foaming-at-the-mouth blind fanboyism and double standards of these posts (F. mates) is so overwhelming that it strikes me as a self-parody.

"Tough match?" World #3 Federer's ("greatest player to have ever played the game," you just said before rushing off the bathroom to change your underwear) H2H against World #58 Seppi is 6-0.

If it wasn't tough, Federer's victory would not be as glorious and godlike! Naturally, if Seppi and Isner were in Nadal's side of the draw, any victory that he managed to scrape out against these Tough Titans of Tennis would be pure luck!
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:27 PM   #73
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

Todd Martin tried to fix something that was working very well. Novak didn't have a problem with his serve at all. I don't know how many slams he could have won. I don't even know how he managed to stay #3 2009/10 with all of DF, non existing serve etc.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:27 PM   #74
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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Originally Posted by scarecrows View Post
prior to the AO match Djokovic had only won ONE tight match against Federer, in which he won less games in total. All in all he had won 4 sets (3 on TB) in 6 encounters.

Federer finished 2007 strongly with wins in USO, Basel and TMC

Suddenly Djokovic wins 3-0 in a match in which Federer never had a chance, in a tournament in which he almost lost to Tipsarevic lol. After that he loses to Fish lol and Roddick superlol.
It's not beyond reasonable to think that Djokovic could have won the U.S. Open in straights (having had set points in both the 1st and the 2nd). The match was decided by a couple of points. So Djokovic came back strong(er) at the Australian Open. It's not like he came out of no where; there was nothing "sudden" about Novak's rise.

As for Tipsarevic: he was playing well in that match (52 winners to 47 UEs). And Fed wasn't playing badly, either: 96 winners to 64 UEs. Unless we're going to attribute every five-setter Fed plays against a lesser player to having mono...which would mean that he has had mono his entire career.

As for Fish and Roddick: Fish usually kept it kind close and isn't routinely blown out, so him running off with a win is not surprising. It's undeniable that he has the type of game that can win against Federer. And Roddick has beaten Federer before 2008, so you can't exactly say mono is what determined the match. Besides, Federer has had worse losses in Masters (Canas and Hrbty come to mind), whereas both Fish and Roddick to their credit have finished inside the top 10. Did he have mono in those losses, too?

Fed may or may not have had mono, but if he did, it was not what led to his losses that year. Unless, of course, we're saying that he goes undefeated in 2008 without mono.....
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:28 PM   #75
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Default Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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It's not beyond reasonable to think that Djokovic could have won the U.S. Open in straights (having had set points in both the 1st and the 2nd). The match was decided by a couple of points. So Djokovic came back strong(er) at the Australian Open. It's not like he came out of no where; there was nothing "sudden" about Novak's rise.

As for Tipsarevic: he was playing well in that match (52 winners to 47 UEs). And Fed wasn't playing badly, either: 96 winners to 64 UEs. Unless we're going to attribute every five-setter Fed plays against a lesser player to having mono...which would mean that he has had mono his entire career.

As for Fish and Roddick: Fish usually kept it kind close and isn't routinely blown out, so him running off with a win is not surprising. It's undeniable that he has the type of game that can win against Federer. And Roddick has beaten Federer before 2008, so you can't exactly say mono is what determined the match. Besides, Federer has had worse losses in Masters (Canas and Hrbty come to mind), whereas both Fish and Roddick to their credit have finished inside the top 10. Did he have mono in those losses, too?
Canas is a better player than Fish.
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